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The Archers! |
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#2276 |
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 915
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The older cast, in the main, are really very good actors. I am not so sure about the younger ones they have brought in. I suppose they need time to develop their craft though. My main issue is that all the young folk seem to sound alike. I am still mixing up the new Tom and the Fairbrothers; who I can't tell apart. I don't know what was wrong with the old Tom TBH.
Re Peggy's attitude - as everyone seemed to like Rob and his Mother, it would be churlish to suddenly start hating them particularly as, at the moment, they are unaware of the full story. Peggy is just showing her concern albeit slightly misplaced in this instance. |
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#2277 |
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 13,998
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There was nothing wrong with the Old Tom, it was totally ridiculous to have him replaced. Listeners build up a mental picture of a character which suits the voice, now when I hear Tom I think he must have had a head transplant!!
Re Peggy's attitude - as everyone seemed to like Rob and his Mother, it would be churlish to suddenly start hating them particularly as, at the moment, they are unaware of the full story. Peggy is just showing her concern albeit slightly misplaced in this instance. ![]() I did have a bit of a shock when she was telling Pat and Tony that it could be a murder charge against Helen. Even the old bag that is Peggy had concern for her.
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#2278 |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 22,733
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There was nothing wrong with the Old Tom, it was totally ridiculous to have him replaced. Listeners build up a mental picture of a character which suits the voice, now when I hear Tom I think he must have had a head transplant!!
Re Peggy's attitude - as everyone seemed to like Rob and his Mother, it would be churlish to suddenly start hating them particularly as, at the moment, they are unaware of the full story. Peggy is just showing her concern albeit slightly misplaced in this instance. Pat who couldn't stand Rob and then fell in love with him for no real good reason is now suddenly 100% in the camp that Rob is to blame for being stabbed. If only she just remained circumspect about Rob and about Helen's relationship with him rather than always diving in and letting all know her extreme changes in opinion about him, she might just have caught on to Helen's distress and been there for her more. I must say I actually find it odd that Helen and Pat and Tony and Kirsty all seem to think that Helen shouldn't be charged at all. Clearly she has to be charged though her defense may lead to her being let off or having a reduced verdict / sentence. Imagine if Rob had stabbed Helen ![]() I know they are completely on her side but their naivety here seems more like stupidity and false and ridiculous feelings about their own superiority. I find it impossible to feel sorry for them as I really don't like any of them
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#2279 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 22,733
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PMSL at Peggy's ideas for silencing the press yesterday
![]() I can't believe Helen's family and Kirsty think she should just be allowed home. I realise they're upset but that's no excuse for losing the power of rational thought. They know she stabbed Rob, and although they, and we, know she had been abused by him, nobody else does because Helen won't tell them. Helen arrested is super irritating I was only on her side briefly because Rob was so terrible and I'm afraid I'm back to disliking her now she's got shut of him. I can't decide whether Rob dying and Helen being charged with murder (![]() ) would be worse for her than Rob surviving and trying for custody of Henry (if he adopted him) and the new baby. Whichever - that's what I want to happen ![]() ![]()
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#2280 |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 22,733
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Lol, it has been pretty grim for them.
Mind you, it's not been a good year for most of Ambridge, with the flood and subsequent fallout, homeless Grundys, Scruff on the missing list, Heather-pet's roadside cark and so on. It's about the darkest I can remember it being. Did anyone else shout "Well you should know!" at the radio when Susan Carter was talking about what it'll be like in prison for Helen? She's my second least favourite character after Peggy Bloody Woolley. ![]() However she seemed very upbeat about it all and as ever provided the humour at a very inappropriate moment.
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#2281 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales / Canolbarth Cymru
Posts: 37,481
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I was actually pleasantly surprised at how open Susan was about having being banged up. She told Peggy that getting letters was what she looked forward to the most. Mind she did point out that she wasn't in for attempted murder
![]() However she seemed very upbeat about it all and as ever provided the humour at a very inappropriate moment. |
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#2282 |
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 9,176
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With respect she stopped going to St Stephens when they had Janet Fisher; a female vicar as their parish priest. She returned to St Stephens when Janet left and Alan arrived. Meanwhile it was Shula who had been friends with Janet and had had an affair with Usha's former partner Dr Locke that objected to the marriage of Richard and Usha. Her objection overtly being that she felt the Vicar's wife should be a Christian.
But Peggy is very judgemental I agree. Goodness, you're right! I'd forgotten all about Janet Fisher, and that particular example of St Shula's sanctimonious twattery. Perhaps Shula is no more than Peggy Bloody Woolley in waiting. Thanks for reminding me. |
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#2283 |
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,253
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The older cast, in the main, are really very good actors. I am not so sure about the younger ones they have brought in. I suppose they need time to develop their craft though. My main issue is that all the young folk seem to sound alike. I am still mixing up the new Tom and the Fairbrothers; who I can't tell apart. I don't know what was wrong with the old Tom TBH.
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#2284 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 5,738
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Do you thinkthe subplot to this will be New Tom and Kirsty getting back together?.
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Bridge Farm Archers have had a bit of an annus horribilis what with New Tom jilting Kirsty,
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#2285 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 5,738
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She's a mean-minded, prejudiced, judgmental old bat and well past her sell-by date. Remember her (not very) thinly-veiled racism when Usha moved into the village, and how she stopped going to St Stephen's when Alan married her?
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#2286 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 5,738
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Did anyone else shout "Well you should know!" at the radio when Susan Carter was talking about what it'll be like in prison for Helen? She's my second least favourite character after Peggy Bloody Woolley.
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#2287 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 5,738
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Hear hear - Ditto Jill aka Patricia Greene.
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#2288 |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,124
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Goodness, you're right! I'd forgotten all about Janet Fisher, and that particular example of St Shula's sanctimonious twattery.
Perhaps Shula is no more than Peggy Bloody Woolley in waiting. Thanks for reminding me. ![]() I wonder if sanctamonious twattery is part of the character spec? You are right about her though. When she was younger I liked her character. Back in the day when she was dating Nigel and friends with Caroline and they were young and 'wild' (by Archer's standards) she was one of my favourites.Sory about my error too. I meant she objected to Usha marrying Alan. Doh! The weird thing was that as I wrote that I said Dr Locke because I couldn't remember his first name. Seems my subconcsious did even if I thought I coudln't remember it.
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#2289 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales / Canolbarth Cymru
Posts: 37,481
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It was Old Tom who jilted Kirsty, then he went away and had a voice transplant and came back as New Tom (with his real dad playing his pretend dad!)
I'm still furious about that. |
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#2290 |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,124
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So he did, you're right. Real Tom's disappearance was to make way for New Tom, engineered in the hope we would forget what he used to sound like.
I'm still furious about that. |
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#2291 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 23,464
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![]() I wonder if sanctamonious twattery is part of the character spec? You are right about her though. When she was younger I liked her character. Back in the day when she was dating Nigel and friends with Caroline and they were young and 'wild' (by Archer's standards) she was one of my favourites.Sory about my error too. I meant she objected to Usha marrying Alan. Doh! The weird thing was that as I wrote that I said Dr Locke because I couldn't remember his first name. Seems my subconcsious did even if I thought I coudln't remember it. ![]() |
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#2292 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,124
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Can you remind me what Shula saw re Rob and lied about? I read something about it on here.
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#2293 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 23,464
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I can't remember the details myself but it was someting to do with the hunt. I think she saw Rob punch a hunt saboteur who took a photograph of a fox being killed. Rob told Shula that the saboteur initiated the fight and although Shula saw it she was persuaded to back up Rob's story.
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#2294 |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,124
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That's sounds like what happend. Will she confess to having seen it happen?
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#2295 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Buckingham
Posts: 28,534
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That's sounds like what happend. Will she confess to having seen it happen?
When push comes to shove Shula has shown time and again she is a moral coward.
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#2296 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 698
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A criminal record for lying in-exchange for rescuing Helen from jail? Sounds like a great deal to me! I'm sorry, it's probably that I find the concept of lying over anything important really difficult to fathom. There is right and there is wrong and I would torture myself over such a morally significant lie much too much to hide it for a very long-time. I realise I'm probably unrepresentative, but I do feel like I need to confess to relatively small things. Perhaps it's just upbringing, I don't know....
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#2297 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales / Canolbarth Cymru
Posts: 37,481
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And get a criminal record for perverting the course of justice having lied to the police about it. I should cocoa!
When push comes to shove Shula has shown time and again she is a moral coward. ![]() |
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#2298 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales / Canolbarth Cymru
Posts: 37,481
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A criminal record for lying in-exchange for rescuing Helen from jail? Sounds like a great deal to me! I'm sorry, it's probably that I find the concept of lying over anything important really difficult to fathom. There is right and there is wrong and I would torture myself over such a morally significant lie much too much to hide it for a very long-time. I realise I'm probably unrepresentative, but I do feel like I need to confess to relatively small things. Perhaps it's just upbringing, I don't know....
- I knew 100% that my lie would do a profound good - I knew there was no possibility of being found out |
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#2299 |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,124
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Yes I agree and I actually found Pat and Tony's response quite ridiculous and childish, 'well at least he's being looked after in hospital' unlike their darling Helen who did actually stab him by the way and several times by the sound of it. It seems to me that Peggy is the only one being rational and sensible here. She isn't on Rob's side as such she has just managed to find out more information about his state of health and it must be shocking to find out someone you like and is a member of the family has just been stabbed to near death by your granddaughter.
Pat who couldn't stand Rob and then fell in love with him for no real good reason is now suddenly 100% in the camp that Rob is to blame for being stabbed. If only she just remained circumspect about Rob and about Helen's relationship with him rather than always diving in and letting all know her extreme changes in opinion about him, she might just have caught on to Helen's distress and been there for her more. I must say I actually find it odd that Helen and Pat and Tony and Kirsty all seem to think that Helen shouldn't be charged at all. Clearly she has to be charged though her defense may lead to her being let off or having a reduced verdict / sentence. Imagine if Rob had stabbed Helen ![]() I know they are completely on her side but their naivety here seems more like stupidity and false and ridiculous feelings about their own superiority. I find it impossible to feel sorry for them as I really don't like any of them ![]() Even if there was absolutley clear evidence that Helen had acted in self defence. Say for example Kirsty had been there and witnessed Rob putting the knife in Helen's hands and demanding she kill herself, before lunging towards Henry, there would still be a legal process. Its as if Pat et al think that in these circumstances the police and the CPS are empowered to say. "There, there now Helen, its not your fault you just run along back to your normal life and we will say no more about it. " How on earth do these numpties think we (society) establish the facts and reach a conclusion that in a particular set of circumstances an act of violence was justified? Do they really think that the investigation shoudl cease because someone's mum says so? Its as if they have no conception of what she has done, Helen included. |
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#2300 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 698
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It's about 'face' isn't it? Preserving the outside world's opinion of you despite what you know to be right and proper or what you know to be reality. Peggy conducts herself in a way she deems to be proper until she has more information because she's ashamed and embarrassed by her flaky granddaughter and embarrassed by the attention it will garner to her. Shula doesn't want to be known as a liar or a woman who doesn't think that a man who is violent in-general might be violent towards her cousin and her cousin's young child. The village doesn't wish to know that it harboured a wife beater, controller and rapist whilst ignoring the condition and conduct of the victim and would rather maintain its own voluntary ignorance and its sense of 'community' so long as you appear to fit the required criterion.
I've always wondered whether Pat sort of did the same thing. Maybe she willed herself into loving Rob and played an inner game of saying something really positive and then secretly, in the back of her head being less convinced and now its come back to bite her on the backside. The difference between what one says for social appropriateness or because it's your family and you make it work and what you truly feel in your heart could be massive. It's the only way I can reconcile the Pat I believed I had become acquainted with over the about six months when I started listening as I worked in my lonely office on the other-side of the building from everybody else, before this arc began. It makes a certain amount of a sense, a case of "I have to make this work for Helen", "at least she's settled now, I'm sure there's lots of good qualities I haven't seen yet" and "he really gets on with Henry" - which for any grandmother would be key. As I have Asperger's (albeit undiagnosed until adulthood), I found lying a weird concept as a child and had to acquire it. There was truth and there was falsehood and I was encouraged to 'make-believe' so that I could understand the concept and learn to 'read' lies to protect myself and even lie myself when it was absolutely necessary to do so. I can lie, but only in circumstances where a utilitarian assessment concludes that the maximum benefit comes from a lie rather than harm from the truth, 'white lies' versus 'black lies' as my Nana put it when I was little. It's a premeditated act in other-words. It's a bit like 'make-believe' even now. I find the concept of 'face' or reputation even more confusing that telling whether a lie is necessary rather than appropriate or whether somebody is lying to me, and am probably more sensitive to it than maybe other people are. The storyline has appealed to me on an actual truth versus the appearance of it level as well. You almost wish it was a novel to see the inner-lives of the characters.... |
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I know they are completely on her side but their naivety here seems more like stupidity and false and ridiculous feelings about their own superiority. I find it impossible to feel sorry for them as I really don't like any of them
I can't decide whether Rob dying and Helen being charged with murder (