[paulbrock]

Originally Posted by AntiDote

OK but I'm talking about this instance. It seems that people are being against Apple 'because it's Apple', regardless of whether there might be substance in their claims.

If people are openly anti-Apple then I'm not judging them, there's nothing wrong with being anti-anyone really. But if it's purely bias then I'd be interested in their response should the case be ruled in Apple's favour.

If it's seen that Apple have legitimate cause for complaint, then fair enough. I'm afraid they've cried wolf far too often for me to be sceptical though. It will be breaking news when Samsung release a new product and Apple DON'T attempt to claim infringement.

The patents in question for the S3 seem to be the ability to recognise numbers/addresses on screen and call/get a map up off them(though using a patent filed 16 years ago, before Steve Jobs had even returned to the company, let alone thought about iphones), and something to do with doing web search via voice.

Lawyers combing through the patents and trying their luck.

[alanwarwic]

Originally Posted by AntiDote

If people are openly anti-Apple then I'm not judging them, there's nothing wrong with being anti-anyone really. But if it's purely bias then I'd be interested in their response should the case be ruled in Apple's favour.

I have read that 3 times and all I can see is judgement on everything other than the case.

[Dai13371]

Originally Posted by paulbrock

If it's seen that Apple have legitimate cause for complaint, then fair enough. I'm afraid they've cried wolf far too often for me to be sceptical though. It will be breaking news when Samsung release a new product and Apple DON'T attempt to claim infringement.

The patents in question for the S3 seem to be the ability to recognise numbers/addresses on screen and call/get a map up off them(though using a patent filed 16 years ago, before Steve Jobs had even returned to the company, let alone thought about iphones), and something to do with doing web search via voice.

Lawyers combing through the patents and trying their luck.

What makes it suspicious, at least in my eyes, is that manipulating a number to use in an SMS, email, map or anything else is a feature which even my lowly Nokia used to have. It is also a feature in Android, so to direct the lawsuit wholly at Samsung is evidence at least that Apple are openly targetting Samsung purely because they are Apple's primary competitor.

It really is a sticking record situation for Apple and i really wish they would change it.

[ACU]

Originally Posted by AntiDote

It just seems your point is based on being anti-Apple. I've played Devil's Advocate here. If Apple's claims are genuine, what's wrong with a company defending its intellectual property and patents?

Nothing wrong with a company protecting its intellectual property. This case isnt one of them, neither was the one against the One X.

[ACU]

Originally Posted by Dai13371

What makes it suspicious, at least in my eyes, is that manipulating a number to use in an SMS, email, map or anything else is a feature which even my lowly Nokia used to have. It is also a feature in Android, so to direct the lawsuit wholly at Samsung is evidence at least that Apple are openly targetting Samsung purely because they are Apple's primary competitor.

It really is a sticking record situation for Apple and i really wish they would change it.

Agree with you 100% about Samsung being the main threat to Apple. Samsung are producing some excellent kit, S2, S3, Note, tab 10.1 etc.

[AntiDote]

Originally Posted by ACU

Nothing wrong with a company protecting its intellectual property. This case isnt one of them, neither was the one against the One X.

So you're judging this case even before it gets to court?

[paulbrock]

Originally Posted by AntiDote

So you're judging this case even before it gets to court?

I believe a fair chunk of the details is in the public domain. Sites like fosspatents have more info than you could possibly want to know. From what I gather they're looking to apply the same arguments they used against the Galaxy Nexus to the S3, and lump it all in the same case to have a chance of preventing /delaying its release.

[Stiggles]

Originally Posted by AntiDote

With respect, how can you say that when we don't know the full details of the case?

Actually, we do.

They have been doing this since the S2 was released. Anyone releases a phone thats better than anything they can create, they try to block it. We have seen it so many times before and are now seeing it again.

[alanwarwic]

Everyone and everyone gets 'show patents' these days. They are used as sales pitch, seldom in court.

I had previously contended that patent offices are simply 'taking the money' and Samsung certainly thinks so too.
They are suing the Australian patent office for acting beyond their remit.
http://www.itnews.com.au/News/304068...pple-suit.aspx

Retina is a prime example of a show patent. Does anyone really think only Apple is allowed to use tiny high resolution screens?

I'm not sure if the patent office has a case to answer though. It is not they who have brought the existing system into disrepute.

[ACU]

Originally Posted by AntiDote

So you're judging this case even before it gets to court?

I am airing my opinion based on what I have read. I am not stating fact.

[AntiDote]

Originally Posted by Stiggles

Actually, we do.

.

So you've seen the papers that relate to this case? Even before it got to court? Wow I wish I had your connections.

[AntiDote]

Originally Posted by ACU

I am airing my opinion based on what I have read. I am not stating fact.

When you say..

Originally Posted by ACU

This case isnt one of them

..it certainly sounds like you're dressing it up as fact.

Don't get me wrong, Apple may well be in the wrong with this. But again it seem like people are having a go at Apple purely for the sake of having a go at Apple. When other companies do this I wonder if the same people make this much noise?

[paulbrock]

Originally Posted by AntiDote

Don't get me wrong, Apple may well be in the wrong with this. But again it seem like people are having a go at Apple purely for the sake of having a go at Apple. When other companies do this I wonder if the same people make this much noise?

You seem to be ignoring the fact that this isn't the first time that Apple have done this. We're judging them based on past form, not 'because they're Apple'. Don't you think it's reasonable to take prior form into account and form a judgement?

[IvanIV]

There's something called history. When even a U.S. judge involved in all this says "I've had my fill of frivolous filings by Apple", it must mean something. It must have reached levels when he could not keep quiet about it.

[AntiDote]

Originally Posted by paulbrock

You seem to be ignoring the fact that this isn't the first time that Apple have done this. We're judging them based on past form, not 'because they're Apple'. Don't you think it's reasonable to take prior form into account and form a judgement?

This is why in criminal courts the jury often aren't told about about a defendant's past. This thread was started about this case, and that's what I'm aiming at.

Judging someone on a situation before a decision/resolution is reached is something I'm really uncomfortable with. Maybe that's just me, I don't know.

[paulbrock]

Originally Posted by AntiDote

This is why in criminal courts the jury often aren't told about about a defendant's past. This thread was started about this case, and that's what I'm aiming at.

Judging someone on a situation before a decision/resolution is reached is something I'm really uncomfortable with. Maybe that's just me, I don't know.

We are not the jury , nor responsible for making any decision on them, and Apple is not the accused, they are the accuser.

You seem more uncomfortable with the idea that Apple might be doing something immoral/incorrect by raising farcical claims that their patents have been violated to discredit their competition. They have in the past, and I have no doubt they will again. Whether this is an instance of it time will tell, but I see no reason to treat them with kid gloves.

[AntiDote]

Originally Posted by paulbrock

We are not the jury , nor responsible for making any decision on them, and Apple is not the accused, they are the accuser.

I'm well aware of that, just as you're well aware I was using that as an example of why it's unwise to judge a case before a decision or resolution is reached.

Originally Posted by paulbrock

You seem more uncomfortable with the idea that Apple might be doing something immoral/incorrect by raising farcical claims that their patents have been violated to discredit their competition.

Actually I don't. I'm raising the point that some people seem more interested in knocking Apple in this case without realising that if their case is genuine then all they're doing is what any other company would do when trying to protect their intellectual property.

[finbaar]

I just wish Apple would drop the hippy attitude that they have that attracts all those free thinkers to them. I know they are only a small company but they need to stand up for themselves. They may be for the small guy against "the man" but there comes a time to put principle aside and concentrate on profit.

As an aside - the Samsung S3 telly advert stinks the place out, the artists at Apple wouldn't allow that.

[psionic]

The whole patent system is completely out of hand and is dire need of a massive overhaul. Broad patents covering wedge shaped laptops for example should never be granted. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-574...-apple-patent/

[Stiggles]

Originally Posted by AntiDote

I'm well aware of that, just as you're well aware I was using that as an example of why it's unwise to judge a case before a decision or resolution is reached.



Actually I don't. I'm raising the point that some people seem more interested in knocking Apple in this case without realising that if their case is genuine then all they're doing is what any other company would do when trying to protect their intellectual property.

Which it wont be since it never ever has been. Perfectly simple really.

Apple are superb at pinching other companies ideas but they absolutely hate when anyone decides to being something out they cant top. When this happens, apple sue.

[alanwarwic]

Originally Posted by finbaar

but there comes a time to put principle aside and concentrate on profit.

Like the humour.

[Dai13371]

"Each day that Samsung continues to sell its infringing Tab 10.1 causes additional harm to Apple through design dilution, lost sales, lost market share, and lost future sales of tag-along products,"

So say Apple's lawyers.

There it is in a nutshell, Apple are alarmed at: "lost sales, lost market share, and lost future sales of tag-along products" and so they decide to litigate rather than innovate.

They really are a disgusting company.

[darkjedimaster]

Originally Posted by Dai13371

"Each day that Samsung continues to sell its infringing Tab 10.1 causes additional harm to Apple through design dilution, lost sales, lost market share, and lost future sales of tag-along products,"

So say Apple's lawyers.

There it is in a nutshell, Apple are alarmed at: "lost sales, lost market share, and lost future sales of tag-along products" and so they decide to litigate rather than innovate.

They really are a disgusting company.

Today the tools at Apple are doing their yearly keynote thingy where they announce new software updates as well as possible new hardware. Now any sane company would use an opportunity like this to reveal a new phone that is better technology wise than it's rivals. But with Apple there is no chance of that happening as they are far too busy looking for things that they can cry like little bitches to their lawyers about, which then causes them to release the latest Iphone later on in the year with technology that is dated when compared to a rival manufacturer like HTC & Samsung.

Yes there are Apple fanboys who will purchase Apple products regardless of the dated technology, but there are people like myself who are gadget whores & will want the most current technology available, this is where Apple will never win the majority of the customer base. Sure if Apple made their products more Open Sourced with hardly any restrictions & the latest technology, then yes I may become interested, but until that happens they can stick their handsets where the sun doesn't shine.

It was reported today that there are nearly 1 million Android activation's every day. I am curious on how many Apple have ?.

http://www.reghardware.com/2012/06/1...million_daily/

[paulbrock]

Originally Posted by darkjedimaster

Now any sane company would use an opportunity like this to reveal a new phone that is better technology wise than it's rivals. But with Apple there is no chance of that happening as they are far too busy looking for things that they can cry like little bitches to their lawyers about, which then causes them to release the latest Iphone later on in the year with technology that is dated when compared to a rival manufacturer like HTC & Samsung.

I'm no fan of Apple, but I'm not sure you can draw that much from them moving their phone releases to autumn rather than early summer.

[darkjedimaster]

Originally Posted by paulbrock

I'm no fan of Apple, but I'm not sure you can draw that much from them moving their phone releases to autumn rather than early summer.

I was only thinking about it logically, if a company uses it's staff to nit pick looking for patent infringements then it is going to delay them in designing a product that betters their rivals. I could be totally wrong & they have a separate lot of staff who look for possible infringements to the staff who are responsible for the design & build of the device. It just seems too much of a coincidence that their products were suddenly shifted in release schedule around the same time that they tried to stop the likes of the Galaxy Tab from going on sale.