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The Hollow Crown (BBC, Shakespeare)
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shuralove
21-07-2012
I have no experience of these plays whatsoever. I thought tonights was just outstanding. A wonderfullly nuanced performance from Tom Hiddleston.
HandsomeBB
21-07-2012
I think they've just gone and done it. I think they've just replaced the Olivier version we was all brought up on with this as the ultimate version of the play.

This is now THE version of Henry V.
Avalon Sky
21-07-2012
Wow! Just, Wow!
SULLA
21-07-2012
It doesn't matter what version I see, we always give the French an almighty thrashing

What a wonderful idea to show us the films in a run to show us the development of Harry.
Shrike
21-07-2012
Originally Posted by SULLA:
“It doesn't matter what version I see, we always give the French an almighty thrashing
...”

A pity we lost it all under Henry VI.
Henry V not dying so young must be one of the great 'what ifs...' of history.

I enjoyed this a lot more that the last couple of plays - just about the right amount of spectacle but still keeping the feeling of a stage production.
Gutted Girl
21-07-2012
I thought that it was excellent.
DavetheScot
21-07-2012
I have to say I found a lot of the cuts regrettable. Not only the Earl of Cambridge and his conspiracy, but most of the stuff with Fluellen, Gower and Pistol. Also, the king's "I was not angry since I came to France..." speech lost a lot; in the play, this is provoked by the slaughter of a number of young boys in the army's baggage train, so the king's rage seemed more understandable, but here that was lost (not to mention, it came across as a tantrum more than anything here).

Perhaps with Henry V, I'm more aware of previous versions, having seen both Olivier's and Branagh's versions many times (I have seen other versions of Richard II and Henry IV, but none more than once). For me, those versions remain much better than this.
DavetheScot
21-07-2012
Originally Posted by Shrike:
“A pity we lost it all under Henry VI.
Henry V not dying so young must be one of the great 'what ifs...' of history.”

Guess God wasn't on his side after all!

The French were, in truth, in the right, as they were defending their land against an unprovoked foreign invasion. It's to be welcomed that they won in the end. (The appearance of Joan of Arc on the scene must be one of history's most staggeringly unlikely turn of events)
Imperial
22-07-2012
Have always had difficulty with The Bard but tonight was simply wonderful. I was engrossed from the start, a mesmerising performance from Tom Hiddleston.
the_lostprophet
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by HandsomeBB:
“I think they've just gone and done it. I think they've just replaced the Olivier version we was all brought up on with this as the ultimate version of the play.

This is now THE version of Henry V.”

Don't forget Kenneth Branagh's 1989 version - that's the one I know the best and I like it a lot. I thought this version was good, if more melancholy than the Branagh one, and that Hiddleston suited the role. Some interesting text cuts however - had been looking forward to the 'what art thou, thou idle ceremony' soliloquy which is delivered the night before the Battle of Agincourt. That's where Henry tries to thrash out his issues with being a king and the responsibility it entails - how he's not really any different to ordinary men etc.

Anyway it's a shame this series is over now - has been spectacular overall. Will have to get the DVD if one is released.
the_lostprophet
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by DavetheScot:
“I have to say I found a lot of the cuts regrettable. Not only the Earl of Cambridge and his conspiracy, but most of the stuff with Fluellen, Gower and Pistol. Also, the king's "I was not angry since I came to France..." speech lost a lot; in the play, this is provoked by the slaughter of a number of young boys in the army's baggage train, so the king's rage seemed more understandable, but here that was lost (not to mention, it came across as a tantrum more than anything here). ”

Agreed - I missed the banter between the various soldiers - Fluellen wasn't in it a lot! And yes I also noticed the 'not angry since I came to France' speech didn't make much sense due to the cutting of the killing of the boys.
Froggie72
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by HandsomeBB:
“I think they've just gone and done it. I think they've just replaced the Olivier version we was all brought up on with this as the ultimate version of the play.

This is now THE version of Henry V.”

Agree with the_lostprophet... the Kenneth Branagh one IS the ultimate version of Henry V - I did like this one very much, but there's no beating Sir Kenneth....

+ I really missed the comedy as so well portrayed in the current run at the Globe theatre! Even the banter between Henry and Catherine at the end was nowhere near as funny as it was written. We were in stitches when we saw it at the Globe!
Lime Kiln
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by peaches41:
“I agree, can't wait for Henry V! I'm really old and can remember our school being taken to the cinema to see Laurence Olivier in the film. Marvellous. omg it was 1944 then.....”

Well you remember it so it must have made an impression!

Originally Posted by KennyT:
“I'm not that old, but we were doing Macbeth and got taken to the cinema to see the Polanski version (I'm convinced our teacher hadn't seen it first!!! - mmmm, Lady M )

K”

Hi "K" I am telling Peaches 41 that you are no spring chicken either as the version you mean came out in 1971.

Originally Posted by SULLA:
“It doesn't matter what version I see, we always give the French an almighty thrashing”

They won out in the end though didnt they..
Originally Posted by Shrike:
“A pity we lost it all under Henry VI.
Henry V not dying so young must be one of the great 'what ifs...' of history.
”

Or maybe not, the French would think differently anyway.
Originally Posted by Imperial:
“Have always had difficulty with The Bard but tonight was simply wonderful. I was engrossed from the start, a mesmerising performance from Tom Hiddleston.”

A lot of people have "difficulty with the bard" and Henry IV parts one and two on tv these past two weeks demonstrate why but this production of henry v was very very good.
Lime Kiln
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by Froggie72:
“Agree with the_lostprophet... the Kenneth Branagh one IS the ultimate version of Henry V - I did like this one very much, but there's no beating Sir Kenneth....

+ I really missed the comedy as so well portrayed in the current run at the Globe theatre! Even the banter between Henry and Catherine at the end was nowhere near as funny as it was written. We were in stitches when we saw it at the Globe!”

The Branagh version is very good and I like it too, in this henry v the scenes between henry and catherine were romantic and worked very well in a new version which doesn't want to stick to what Branagh or Olivier or the Globe did. I think it might have won new fans.
Froggie72
22-07-2012
I think every version has got its nuances so there's a version for everyone! It's all for the best if it means more people enjoy Shakespeare! So glad it's given such prominence on TV at last!
Joooe
22-07-2012
I only know bits of Shakespeare, but I've watched all of this series and loved it.

A shame it's finished, would have liked some more.
mrsdparis
22-07-2012
Perfectly serviceable performance of tiresome play.

But, thanks to BBC for putting on this series and really pushing the boat out as far as production values, casting etc is concerned. It seems that Shakespeare has won many new admirers as a result.

Fantastic that they have kept Richard II on iplayer, several weeks after it aired. I go back to it time and time again. Absoulely magical, utter perfection.
servelan
22-07-2012
This whole series has been fantastic. I know nothing of these plays, but I had no trouble in understanding what was happening because the acting was so good.

And the sets and costumes were just perfect.

I think that the best play was Richard II, because it was so different and full of strange imagery. I couldn't pick a stand out performance amongst the actors as they were all excellent.

I loved it
Shrike
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by DavetheScot:
“.. Also, the king's "I was not angry since I came to France..." speech lost a lot; in the play, this is provoked by the slaughter of a number of young boys in the army's baggage train, so the king's rage seemed more understandable, but here that was lost (not to mention, it came across as a tantrum more than anything here). .”

As someone not familiar with the play I found the Kings actions quite incomprehensible and his ordering that the prisoners be killed seemed like a war crime. Surely even a line about the baggaged train could have been added else Henry's character seems very dark indeed.
LanceWilkins
22-07-2012
I also thought that the killing of the prisoners made little sense because of the cutting of the scene of the killing of the poys. Unless we were at this point at the scene in the camp where the dead shown were the pages and camp-minders, although this was not made clear.
Pasta
22-07-2012
Very enjoyable, but I also felt the losing of the killing of the boys threw the production off course; Tom Hiddleston had to work hard to get sympathy back and this may be one reason by the wooing of Kate took longer than usual to catch fire.
Killary45
22-07-2012
The problem with this series was that after the wonderful Richard II, the other three were bound to suffer in comparison. They were all good, and well worth watching, but R2 was something else.

I agree that this H5 had two big problems - the unnecessary cuts, and the complete failure of the humour scenes.
lady_xanax
22-07-2012
I thought this Henry V wasn't pacey enough. It was a bit too glossy. If you deal with them the wrong way, the history plays can be tedious.

Branagh's Henry V is still the greatest, as it gets to the heart of Henry's character.
the_lostprophet
22-07-2012
What did people make of the understated Crispin's day speech too? Henry says it to a group of nobles and at the end they just kind of nod - the director seems to have decided to take the vigour out of it. For anyone who hasn't seen the Branagh version, it was done very differently there. Henry spoke to the common soldiers as well - here's a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-yZNMWFqvM Spot a young Christian Bale as well at 2:25.
maw1
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by DavetheScot:
“
The French were, in truth, in the right, as they were defending their land against an unprovoked foreign invasion. It's to be welcomed that they won in the end. (The appearance of Joan of Arc on the scene must be one of history's most staggeringly unlikely turn of events)”

It's not quite as clear-cut as that. In Henry's eyes, he was defending his right to certain dukedoms in France inherited, ultimately, from William the Conqueror, who snatched England from the Saxons.
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