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The Hollow Crown (BBC, Shakespeare) |
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#76 |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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We should form a club! Now, all together . . .
"I know you all, and will awhile uphold The unyok'd humour of your idleness. Yet herein will I imitate the Sun, Who doth permit the base contagious clouds To smother up his beauty from the world, That, when he please again to be himself, Being wanted, he may be more wonder'd at, By breaking through the foul and ugly mists Of vapours that did seem to strangle him. If all the year were playing holidays, To sport would be as tedious as to work; But, when they seldom come, they wish'd-for come, And nothing pleaseth but rare accidents. So when this loose behaviour I throw off, And pay the debt I never promised, By how much better than my word I am, By so much shall I falsify men's hopes; And, like bright metal on a sullen ground, My reformation, glitt'ring o'er my fault, Shall show more goodly and attract more eyes Than that which hath no foil to set it off. I'll so offend to make offense a skill, Redeeming time when men think least I will." I did C&P that, but was surprised at how much I remembered! I also remember that I answered the question on Honour in the exam paper - so managed to actually use it in the exam
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#77 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,077
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Quote:
We should form a club! Now, all together . . .
"I know you all, and will awhile uphold The unyok'd humour of your idleness. Yet herein will I imitate the Sun, Who doth permit the base contagious clouds To smother up his beauty from the world, That, when he please again to be himself, Being wanted, he may be more wonder'd at, By breaking through the foul and ugly mists Of vapours that did seem to strangle him. If all the year were playing holidays, To sport would be as tedious as to work; But, when they seldom come, they wish'd-for come, And nothing pleaseth but rare accidents. So when this loose behaviour I throw off, And pay the debt I never promised, By how much better than my word I am, By so much shall I falsify men's hopes; And, like bright metal on a sullen ground, My reformation, glitt'ring o'er my fault, Shall show more goodly and attract more eyes Than that which hath no foil to set it off. I'll so offend to make offense a skill, Redeeming time when men think least I will." I did C&P that, but was surprised at how much I remembered! I also remember that I answered the question on Honour in the exam paper - so managed to actually use it in the exam ![]() "What is honour? A word. What's in that word honour? Air..."![]()
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#78 |
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: a whimsical world
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I definitely thought Richard's sexuality was ambiguous. There is that bit in Bolingbroke's speech at the execution of Bushey and Green when he accuses them of making Richard a stranger to his wife's bed, or something similar.
Of course, it could just mean that they were up all night boozing and playing the medieval equivalent of video games. Richard and his wife were obviously very affectionate, in any case. My vote is that he's bi.
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#79 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 242
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I know - I don't have much time for the anti-Stratfordian view either. Apparently Shakespeare would still have had a classical education at grammar school; it's completely plausible that he would have been educated well enough to have written the plays.
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#80 |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,964
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It's funny how it all comes back to you.
"What is honour? A word. What's in that word honour? Air..."![]() ![]() Yea, but how if honour prick me off when I come on? How then? Can honour set to a leg? No: or an arm? No: or take away the grief of a wound? No. Honour hath no skill in surgery, then? No. Will be interesting to see how Falstaff is played - I hope they bring out the pathos as well as the bawdy humour |
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#81 |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,496
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Yes I see that he was in that from Wikipedia; I didn't watch it though. I thought he was okay in Richard for the smallish size of the Aumerle role.
So that was both bad casting - he does convince as a young man from a poor background - and an unbelievable character. |
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#82 |
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 548
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Richard II was married twice. His first wife was Anne of Bohemia. By contemporary accounts they were very happily married and he was devastated by her death from plague. In fact he tore down the palace at Sheen, where she died as he could never bear to go there again. His second wife Isabella Valois was only 7 when they were married as part of a treaty between England and France. She was only 11 when he died but was apparently devoted to him and he regarded her as a dear child or younger sister. Theories suggest that he 'married' such a young bride because of his continuing love for his late Queen. Who knows? Froissart was a great chronicler of the times and he was quite a gossip. Richard was a cultured man, he was mainly brought up by his mother, Joan the Fair Maid of Kent. His wife Anne was thought to have introduced the use of handkerchiefs and eating with forks. Maybe all this was thought 'a bit gay' by warriors like Bolingbroke, although he himself was also a very educated man whose father was the chief patron (and later brother-in-law) of Chaucer.
Sorry to waffle on, I absolutely love the Plantagenets, much more exciting than the Tudors! I thought the play was marvellous, maybe the best television Shakespeare I have seen and I watched all of the BBC Shakespeare when it was on many years ago. Right, one more fact before I bore you all to death. Richard's queen Isabella was the older sister of Henry V's queen Katherine
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#83 |
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Holodeck 4
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I thought it was excellent. It was really interesting Ben Whishaw playing Richard as a little effeminate. I think it worked well.
The rest of the cast was almost uniformly excellent and the visual style was superb (I wish I had HD). Really looking forward to the rest of the tetralogy. |
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#84 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,966
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I thought it was a terrific production; Ben Wishaw was brilliant and in the end heartbreaking. When you have a cast speaking the lines so clearly and well, I find it strange some people say Shakespeare can't be understoof today. I mostly enjoyed the Jacoby programme afterwards, especially seeing his BBC Richard to match against Wishaw's. I also learned something new: that Richard II is Shakespeare's only play all in verse. But how an intelligent actor like Jacoby can believe the de Vere nonsense is incomprehensible to me. Maybe in the 19th or eary 20th centuries (when the Bacon/ de Vere ideas took root) there might have been some excuse, but now we know so much about the theatrical world of Shakespeare's time, there really is no excuse at all.
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#85 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3,310
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Richard II was married twice. His first wife was Anne of Bohemia. By contemporary accounts they were very happily married and he was devastated by her death from plague. In fact he tore down the palace at Sheen, where she died as he could never bear to go there again. His second wife Isabella Valois was only 7 when they were married as part of a treaty between England and France. She was only 11 when he died but was apparently devoted to him and he regarded her as a dear child or younger sister. Theories suggest that he 'married' such a young bride because of his continuing love for his late Queen. Who knows? Froissart was a great chronicler of the times and he was quite a gossip. Richard was a cultured man, he was mainly brought up by his mother, Joan the Fair Maid of Kent. His wife Anne was thought to have introduced the use of handkerchiefs and eating with forks. Maybe all this was thought 'a bit gay' by warriors like Bolingbroke, although he himself was also a very educated man whose father was the chief patron (and later brother-in-law) of Chaucer.
Sorry to waffle on, I absolutely love the Plantagenets, much more exciting than the Tudors! I thought the play was marvellous, maybe the best television Shakespeare I have seen and I watched all of the BBC Shakespeare when it was on many years ago. Right, one more fact before I bore you all to death. Richard's queen Isabella was the older sister of Henry V's queen Katherine ![]() |
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#86 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 16,500
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Quote:
Richard II was married twice. His first wife was Anne of Bohemia. By contemporary accounts they were very happily married and he was devastated by her death from plague. In fact he tore down the palace at Sheen, where she died as he could never bear to go there again. His second wife Isabella Valois was only 7 when they were married as part of a treaty between England and France. She was only 11 when he died but was apparently devoted to him and he regarded her as a dear child or younger sister. Theories suggest that he 'married' such a young bride because of his continuing love for his late Queen. Who knows? Froissart was a great chronicler of the times and he was quite a gossip. Richard was a cultured man, he was mainly brought up by his mother, Joan the Fair Maid of Kent. His wife Anne was thought to have introduced the use of handkerchiefs and eating with forks. Maybe all this was thought 'a bit gay' by warriors like Bolingbroke, although he himself was also a very educated man whose father was the chief patron (and later brother-in-law) of Chaucer.
Sorry to waffle on, I absolutely love the Plantagenets, much more exciting than the Tudors! I thought the play was marvellous, maybe the best television Shakespeare I have seen and I watched all of the BBC Shakespeare when it was on many years ago. Right, one more fact before I bore you all to death. Richard's queen Isabella was the older sister of Henry V's queen Katherine ![]() |
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#87 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 9,020
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In other words, do a brand new, up to date, Shakespeare collection? I think it's due.
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#88 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Belfast
Posts: 105
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While I enjoyed Whishaw's performance, the person I was watching with, who isn't much of a historian, ended up wondering if the reason they all wanted rid of Richard in the end was because he was gay, because he felt Whishaw's character was coming across that way, and all the talk of his young male friends corrupting him, just before they got executed,plus his distant relationship with his wife, was a veiled shot suggesting as such.
I explained that it was just a play and not really true to the real history, but it was an interesting thought and I wondered if anyone else noticed anything like that? But it was set up from the start, with the young casting and soft clothing of the king's favourites, especially when they were all sitting on that bridge together, looking like something out of Merchant Ivory. I thought the queen knew all about it (or else why would she blush?) but didn't mind. She loved the king and called him 'her rose'. I don't know if a dig at the judgemental was what was Shakespeare originally meant, but surely the king's sex life is more the queen's business than anyone else's. I got so involved in this, even for the minor characters. I was hiding behind my fingers at the end, worried for the groom when they all rushed in, hoping he didn't get hurt. The king wasn't an easy character to warm to at the start, but he was played so intelligently by Whislaw that by the end everyone else seemed like worms. Not a good king, Bollingbroke probably would be better, but I grew to hate Bollingbroke for his hypocrisy. And then at the end he runs away. I never thought I'd enjoy a Shakespearean history play so much. So into it! Going to watch again on iplayer. |
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#89 |
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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I felt really sorry for Richard at the end
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#90 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Surrey
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And then at the end he runs away.
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#91 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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What do you mean? He runs away because he said he's going on crusade to the Holy land due to his guilt? Not sure if you know the plot of the Henry plays but you'll have to wait for Henry IV part 1 to see what happens with that.
I haven't seen any of the history plays before except Henry V. I look forward to seeing what happens next. Tom Hiddleston is going to be Henry, right? I checked out some clips for the next film. I was shocked how amateurish Hiddleston's acting was, especially next to Jeremy Irons who was amazing. I was surprised, he was so good in Thor. Ah well, he looks pretty. And it might be better in context. |
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#92 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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Posts: 3,310
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If anyone has a spare hour it's worth catching 'Derek Jacobi on Richard II' on the iplayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...on_Richard_II/
Apart from his detour into the silliness of Shakespeare not writing the play, it's quite a detailed look at the play and offers some helpful insight about Richard and the play's Elizabethan context. I didn't think much of those two Globe actors though especially the one playing Richard - thought he missed Richard's manipulative and self-pitying nature. He played it more as if he's Bolingbroke - a shame they didn't show us some RSC actors attempting it instead. I thought it was interesting to hear Jacobi say right at the end (whilst watching his own interpretation of Richard from the 70s) that he thinks he could play Richard better now than he did in his youth - with the wisdom of age. |
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#93 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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While it's true that Richard and his his first wife were devoted to each other, it's noticeable that they had no children. I suspect that their relationship may have been more like a brother and sister than a sexual one. There's some evidence, though not conclusive, that Richard was gay. He was certainly regarded as unsuitably close to Robert de Vere, Earl of Oxford.
![]() Only kidding! But it is odd, Shakespeare doesn't usually worry about offending the descendants of his characters, surely? |
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#94 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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I thought it was interesting to hear Jacobi say right at the end (whilst watching his own interpretation of Richard from the 70s) that he thinks he could play Richard better now than he did in his youth - with the wisdom of age.
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#95 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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I suspect that's a common feeling among actors.
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#96 |
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Join Date: May 2010
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I'll admit, I only watched this because Tom Hiddleston is in the next two but I was pleasantly surprised. I haven't read or watched Shakespeare since school and even though I had no strong opinions one way or another I never really read any more. But I really enjoyed Richard II, it was truly something special to watch.
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#97 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Belfast
Posts: 105
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If anyone has a spare hour it's worth catching 'Derek Jacobi on Richard II' on the iplayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...on_Richard_II/
Apart from his detour into the silliness of Shakespeare not writing the play, it's quite a detailed look at the play and offers some helpful insight about Richard and the play's Elizabethan context. I didn't think much of those two Globe actors though especially the one playing Richard - thought he missed Richard's manipulative and self-pitying nature. He played it more as if he's Bolingbroke - a shame they didn't show us some RSC actors attempting it instead. I thought it was interesting to hear Jacobi say right at the end (whilst watching his own interpretation of Richard from the 70s) that he thinks he could play Richard better now than he did in his youth - with the wisdom of age. So many interpretations of Richard II side by side were fascinating. |
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#98 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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Derek Jacobi thinks Shakespeare is not the author? I was intrigued and expecting some intelligent debate at this part in the documentary, perhaps with historical facts and documentary analysis. But Jacobi's theory just boiled down to 'Shakespeare was just some oik from Stratford, and obviously oiks can't write plays about kings'. Disappointing. He's a great actor, but he fundamentally doesn't understand that writing is about making things up.
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#99 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Indeed. I remember being disappointed to hear Mark Rylance coming out with something similar a few years ago.
The only one interesting point was that Shakespeare kept his kids illiterate - that surely if he loved writing so much, he'd have seen to their education. But Shakespeare was only survived by girl children, wasn't he? His son died young. I don't know if it was common to educate middle class girls at that time. Both girls married well. So even that is full of holes. Back to the film.... At the start, they had Richard touch the wounds of the model for the St Sebastian, and I thought - 'oh, I hope they don't make a meal of those references, it's a bit Jarman obvious'. But at the end, when they brought back the allusions I was ready for it. They properly tied it into the text (like when Richard called the usurpers Judas as he handed over the crown) and somehow the Christ-posturing and the folly of the king's divine assumptions made his ending saintlike rather than overkill. It helped that Whislaw has the torso of a painted medieval saint. They used that well. He was even shown in his cave like a hermit. |
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#100 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 530
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Cheers Matt
![]() Just caught up with the various clips and traliers that are out there. This looks a very impressive production. We are talking Game of Thrones type levels here? Not wanting to be too spoilerific. I suppose for some viewers this will be a brand new experience - storywise I mean? Bit I hadn't realised it was going to be so lavish. A few glasses of Mead will help me get into the mood tonight. ![]() I just WISH they would speak modern English:yawn: |
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