[penelopesimpson]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Strong evidence from Sir John Major today. I think he made it clear that Rupert Murdoch was not even subtle when it came to making demands of Prime Ministers. I know Murdoch said he never asked a Prime Minister for anything, but I know who I believe.

What specifically is it you think he asked for?

[penelopesimpson]

Originally Posted by barrcode88

Going to NHS Fife and allegedly bribing an official for access to his sons medical records doesn't sound wrong to you? - Then I feel sorry for you.

This is not about ME.

[penelopesimpson]

Originally Posted by Ethel_Fred

Someone who isn't ill from cystic fibrosis.

In medical parlance he is suffering from a condition which will be lifelong. That is not classed as an illness which is a different thing to saying he is ill.

[glasshalffull]

Originally Posted by swingaleg

I don't think JM's resignation was a matter of high principle !.......................it was dirty politics !

Through losing by-election after by-election his majority in the Commons was wafer thin and he had a block of his own MPs who's support he couldn't rely on - particularly on Europe but spreading into other policy areas as well

He thought that by resigning and being re-elected in a leadership contest that was confirm his authority over the rebels and oblige them to toe the line

I'm not sure what effect it had ..........wether there were fewer rebellions after 1995, but of course from 1996 onwards the impending general election might have forced the backbenchers to toe the line

Open to either interpretation

Truth was 95/96 the tide had turned against the Tories...much as it had for Labour by 2008/09.

I'm sure you would agree at very least it took guts to do it...and a willingness to accept the fact he might have lost.

Do you think the current careerists from any party would ever do the same? (rhetorical question)

[husted]

Originally Posted by penelopesimpson

In medical parlance he is suffering from a condition which will be lifelong. That is not classed as an illness which is a different thing to saying he is ill.

Cystic fibrosis is an chronic illness

A chronic illness is a human health condition or disease that is persistent or otherwise long-lasting in its effects.

[swingaleg]

Originally Posted by glasshalffull

I'm sure you would agree at very least it took guts to do it...and a willingness to accept the fact he might have lost.

Do you think the current careerists from any party would ever do the same? (rhetorical question)

It was a very bold move for someone who had a reputation as being a bit timid..........I suppose he was in a bit of a 'nothing to lose' position because he couldn't control his party

It was a very particular circumstance - small majority, big group of rebels - which we've not had since and is probably quite rare, so it might be 100 years before that scenario occurs again to see wether any other PM would do the same

The more usual thing to do under those circumstances would be to call a general election to seek a larger majority

[penelopesimpson]

Originally Posted by husted

Cystic fibrosis is an chronic illness

A chronic illness is a human health condition or disease that is persistent or otherwise long-lasting in its effects.

Semantics.

And I really am done with the child now. Brown has milked the little boy for all he's worth. That's his choice. Mine is to concentrate on what he did to this country.

[WindWalker]

Originally Posted by swingaleg

I don't think JM's resignation was a matter of high principle !.......................it was dirty politics !

Through losing by-election after by-election his majority in the Commons was wafer thin and he had a block of his own MPs who's support he couldn't rely on - particularly on Europe but spreading into other policy areas as well

He thought that by resigning and being re-elected in a leadership contest that was confirm his authority over the rebels and oblige them to toe the line

I'm not sure what effect it had ..........wether there were fewer rebellions after 1995, but of course from 1996 onwards the impending general election might have forced the backbenchers to toe the line

Originally Posted by glasshalffull

Open to either interpretation

Truth was 95/96 the tide had turned against the Tories...much as it had for Labour by 2008/09.

I'm sure you would agree at very least it took guts to do it...and a willingness to accept the fact he might have lost.

Do you think the current careerists from any party would ever do the same? (rhetorical question)

I think it was an attempt to silence a lot of his critics, not just his own party. I remember he was portrayed pretty badly by the media, spitting image and general talk was critical. With his own party fighting amongst themselves and convincing themselves someone else was the answer to their problems, he took the decision to seek re-election as leader. I think it was a put up or shut up moment and not something you would be likely to see from today's PM's.

[CRM]

Penelopesimpson, are you proud of lacking any empathy? Brown didn't ask for details to be released, he could have requested a media blackout like his predecessor on another delicate issue. The fact that the Sun went with this shows the huge difference in relations between Murdoch and Brown and Blair accordingly.

[gummy mummy]

Originally Posted by penelopesimpson

In medical parlance he is suffering from a condition which will be lifelong. That is not classed as an illness which is a different thing to saying he is ill.

Sadly though for some young people with this condition 'lifelong' for them can mean a very short time.

[Sad_BB_Addict]

Another terrific piece from Quentin Letts
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...eth-mouse.html

[penelopesimpson]

Originally Posted by gummy mummy

Sadly though for some young people with this condition 'lifelong' can be a very short time.

As I said, lifelong. And sad. And tragic. But irrelevant.

[glasshalffull]

Originally Posted by swingaleg

It was a very bold move for someone who had a reputation as being a bit timid..........I suppose he was in a bit of a 'nothing to lose' position because he couldn't control his party

It was a very particular circumstance - small majority, big group of rebels - which we've not had since and is probably quite rare, so it might be 100 years before that scenario occurs again to see wether any other PM would do the same

The more usual thing to do under those circumstances would be to call a general election to seek a larger majority

No...but I would not be totally surprised to live long enough to see it again...

As to the second point...that's the sort of thing constitution textbooks would say...but at that time Major knew he would lose an election so resigning was really his only way to try to regain some control..either that or put up with the wearing effects of the "barstewards"....and possibly be forced into the election sooner.

Put it this way...suppose the coalition broke down tomorrow...giving more clout to the Tory right etc etc...would Cameron force a leadership election? Allow himself to be shoved further to the right? Or call a General election to try to get an overall majority?

[gummy mummy]

Originally Posted by penelopesimpson

As I said, lifelong. And sad. And tragic. But irrelevant.

Irrelevant in what way ?

[penelopesimpson]

Originally Posted by gummy mummy

Irrelevant in what way ?

To me.
To the welfare of the country
To politics
To the general discussion of Leveson.

Night.

[husted]

Originally Posted by penelopesimpson

Semantics.

And I really am done with the child now. Brown has milked the little boy for all he's worth. That's his choice. Mine is to concentrate on what he did to this country.

You say its not an illness when it clearly is. You cant admit when you are blatantly wrong.

This is typical of your blinkered view on this thread, and everyone here can see that you are not here for reasoned discussion.

[glasshalffull]

Originally Posted by husted

You say its not an illness when it clearly is. You cant admit when you are blatantly wrong.

This is typical of your blinkered view on this thread, and everyone here can see that you are not here for reasoned discussion.

I can't

[swingaleg]

Originally Posted by glasshalffull

No...but I would not be totally surprised to live long enough to see it again...

As to the second point...that's the sort of thing constitution textbooks would say...but at that time Major knew he would lose an election so resigning was really his only way to try to regain some control..either that or put up with the wearing effects of the "barstewards"....and possibly be forced into the election sooner.

Put it this way...suppose the coalition broke down tomorrow...giving more clout to the Tory right etc etc...would Cameron force a leadership election? Allow himself to be shoved further to the right? Or call a General election to try to get an overall majority?

You know........I think the 'barstewards' comment was referring to some of his own cabinet ministers rather than the backbench rebels............

I guess a breakdown of the coalition is not unlikely as we get nearer the next general election...........I don't know what cameron would do.

He wouldn't have a majority but maybe the Libs would see them through to the election without a formal coalition, it might only be a matter of months

[footygirl]

Originally Posted by penelopesimpson

Semantics.

And I really am done with the child now. Brown has milked the little boy for all he's worth. That's his choice. Mine is to concentrate on what he did to this country.

For me you still haven't amswered the question about Rebekah Brooks conduct during this - do you or do you not think it is acceptable to do what she seems to have done

[husted]

Originally Posted by glasshalffull

I can't

You should top up that glass.

Perhaps I should've said 'Everyone may' rather than 'Everyone can' .

Anyway, she's not worth bothering with IMO.

[glasshalffull]

Originally Posted by swingaleg

You know........I think the 'barstewards' comment was referring to some of his own cabinet ministers rather than the backbench rebels............

I guess a breakdown of the coalition is not unlikely as we get nearer the next general election...........I don't know what cameron would do.

He wouldn't have a majority but maybe the Libs would see them through to the election without a formal coalition, it might only be a matter of months

It was...and that's how we arrived on this sidebar ...the backbenches were openly rebelling but it was a section of his own Cabinet that were believed to be doing the briefing against Major, winding up the rebels and watching them go etc.

It was that "briefing against Major" I confused with the Mugabe business I had not seen...and now we are back where we were somewhere up ^^^^^^^^ there

(hums Circle Of Life)

[footygirl]

Originally Posted by swingaleg

You know........I think the 'barstewards' comment was referring to some of his own cabinet ministers rather than the backbench rebels............

I guess a breakdown of the coalition is not unlikely as we get nearer the next general election...........I don't know what cameron would do.

He wouldn't have a majority but maybe the Libs would see them through to the election without a formal coalition, it might only be a matter of months

And meanwhile Ed Miliband is becoming more popular

[gummy mummy]

Originally Posted by penelopesimpson

To me.
To the welfare of the country
To politics
To the general discussion of Leveson.

Night.

Sorry for laughing but that's the only response I can think of which might compliment your post.

[glasshalffull]

Originally Posted by husted

You should top up that glass.

Perhaps I should've said 'Everyone may' rather than 'Everyone can' .

Anyway, she's not worth bothering with IMO.

I think you are misunderstanding why I literally "can't see" all of what she says...

[swingaleg]

Originally Posted by glasshalffull

It was...and that's how we arrived on this sidebar ...the backbenches were openly rebelling but it was a section of his own Cabinet that were believed to be doing the briefing against Major, winding up the rebels and watching them go etc.

It was that "briefing against Major" I confused with the Mugabe business I had not seen...and now we are back where we were somewhere up ^^^^^^^^ there

(hums Circle Of Life)

back on track then............