[Leanna1989]

Something didn't come from nothing. God created the world. Whether it happened in seven of our days or seven His days (which are much longer), is irrelevant to me. Fact is, he created this world. In it he created each of us with a purpose. Our purpose is to be saved, to love the Lord and live for Him. He gives us the world. He gives us peace. He has loved us before our parents were born, because he saw into the future when we would be born, and he knitted us each in our own mother's womb. He has given us all of this and all he asks is that we love Him back. It doesn't seem so ridiculous to me. The Lord wants to know us and we need to know Him. So it works out well.

God is true. He is the creator of all. He loves each and every one of us, and he simply wants us to return to Him. Life with God by my side is so much more wonderful and peaceful than life without Him. I couldn't ask anything more from God, since He is so near to me. He listens to my prayers, even when they don't come true because His plan is different. It's amazing to think that the creator of the universe cares about me, but He does. He cares about each of us, and He knows us better than we know ourselves. All he's waiting for is to us to reach out to him.

2 Corinthians 6:2
For he says, “In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.

[Seaborn]

I don't see what there is to understand, really.

The whole universe was in a hot, dense state till about 14 billion years ago, expansion started...

[Biffo the Bear]

Originally Posted by Seaborn

I don't see what there is to understand, really.

The whole universe was in a hot, dense state till about 14 billion years ago, expansion started...

Not really - it only acquired temperature on expansion when the four fundamental forces separated. Before that, temperature didn't exist, by current thinking.

[stargazer61]

Originally Posted by Moony

It makes me laugh when forum "experts" talk about a theory they clearly have no concept of.

The big bang theory doesnt address the question of how the universe came into existence. It only deals with how the universe evolved from a very hot dense object that existed around the plank epoch (10^-43 seconds after the universe came into existence) to give the universe in its current state. Anything beyong the plank epoch is speculation at the moment - and I doubt you will find many scientists who claim otherwise.

Agreed!

[PerpetualAscent]

Originally Posted by Leanna1989

Something didn't come from nothing. God created the world. Whether it happened in seven of our days or seven His days (which are much longer), is irrelevant to me. Fact is, he created this world. In it he created each of us with a purpose. Our purpose is to be saved, to love the Lord and live for Him. He gives us the world. He gives us peace. He has loved us before our parents were born, because he saw into the future when we would be born, and he knitted us each in our own mother's womb. He has given us all of this and all he asks is that we love Him back. It doesn't seem so ridiculous to me. The Lord wants to know us and we need to know Him. So it works out well.

God is true. He is the creator of all. He loves each and every one of us, and he simply wants us to return to Him. Life with God by my side is so much more wonderful and peaceful than life without Him. I couldn't ask anything more from God, since He is so near to me. He listens to my prayers, even when they don't come true because His plan is different. It's amazing to think that the creator of the universe cares about me, but He does. He cares about each of us, and He knows us better than we know ourselves. All he's waiting for is to us to reach out to him.

2 Corinthians 6:2
For he says, “In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.

And here she comes with her infinite wisdom. Listen to her folks, she's special, she knows things for certain that other human beings can't possibly know. But be warned, if you disagree with her in anyway you will be tortured by her loving, merciful god.

[Seaborn]

Originally Posted by Biffo the Bear

Not really - it only acquired temperature on expansion when the four fundamental forces separated. Before that, temperature didn't exist, by current thinking.

Ah, that'll be when the earth began to cool, the autotrophes began to drool, leading to neanderthals developing tools, us building walls, pyramids...

[Biffo the Bear]

Originally Posted by Seaborn

Ah, that'll be when the earth began to cool, the autotrophes began to drool, leading to neanderthals developing tools, us building walls, pyramids...

Now you're using maths, science and history in order to unravel the mystery.

[Seaborn]

Originally Posted by Biffo the Bear

Now you're using maths, science and history in order to unravel the mystery.

But where did it all start?

[Biffo the Bear]

Originally Posted by Seaborn

But where did it all start?

With a Big Bang..

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88      "8b       d88b        8888b     88   d8"'    `"8b  88  
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88aaaaaa8P'     d8'  `8b      88  `8b   88  88             88  
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[Seaborn]

Originally Posted by Biffo the Bear

With a Big Bang..

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88      "8b       d88b        8888b     88   d8"'    `"8b  88  
88      ,8P      d8'`8b       88 `8b    88  d8'            88  
88aaaaaa8P'     d8'  `8b      88  `8b   88  88             88  
88""""""8b,    d8YaaaaY8b     88   `8b  88  88      88888  88  
88      `8b   d8""""""""8b    88    `8b 88  Y8,        88  ""  
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88888888P"  d8'          `8b  88      `888    `"Y88888P"   88

I think we can close the forum today, you just won it.

[Welsh-lad]

Originally Posted by Jamesthethird

What is nothing? Surely "nothing" itself is, "something"?

yeah i think that too. If there was 'nothing', there's got to be 'something' as a comparison.

You know it's hot because it's the opposite of being cold.

My brain is going booooom

[Gilbertoo]

How much mass is out there? If you combined all the known planets, moons, stars, asteroids, meteors, etc., together to form a single planet, we're talking one big mother, right. How can all of this matter have come from nothing?

[Welsh-lad]

Originally Posted by Gilbertoo

How much mass is out there? If you combined all the known planets, moons, stars, asteroids, meteors, etc., together to form a single planet, we're talking one big mother, right. How can all of this matter have come from nothing?

One wishes the Doctor were real, so we could ask him!

[Biffo the Bear]

Originally Posted by Gilbertoo

How much mass is out there? If you combined all the known planets, moons, stars, asteroids, meteors, etc., together to form a single planet, we're talking one big mother, right. How can all of this matter have come from nothing?

It didn't come from nothing and it didn't come from something. It only became something once it started to expand into the four fundamental interactions that we have today.

You have to think about it as a paradox, because whatever it was is not reconcilable with what we perceive as being part of the physical universe or predictable by physical sciences.

In our subjective etymological terms, it was something, but in scientific terms, which are what truly matters if you want to quantify it, it was neither nothing nor something to the best of our current knowledge.

The only way we could truly find out would be to artificially create a superunified construct in the laboratory and measure that.

However, there are a number of problems that may arise (discounting the obvious problem with energy needed to create it for argument's sake).. one is that it might not register with any instruments that we use to record it.. or it made fade out of existence in the instant that it is created because it is not naturally part of our universe.. or it could cause a premature Big Crunch by virtue of its theoretical hyper-density making our Universe contract in a 'Planck instant' so to speak or all manner of odd things.

[bleuh111]

Originally Posted by Leanna1989

Something didn't come from nothing. God created the world. Whether it happened in seven of our days or seven His days (which are much longer), is irrelevant to me. Fact is, he created this world. In it he created each of us with a purpose. Our purpose is to be saved, to love the Lord and live for Him. He gives us the world. He gives us peace. He has loved us before our parents were born, because he saw into the future when we would be born, and he knitted us each in our own mother's womb. He has given us all of this and all he asks is that we love Him back. It doesn't seem so ridiculous to me. The Lord wants to know us and we need to know Him. So it works out well.

So all he wants is for me to love him as he loves me and that makes perfect sense to you? Now you see if I wanted my children to love me, I'd start by making sure every single one of them knew for sure that I existed.

[Gilbertoo]

Originally Posted by Biffo the Bear

It didn't come from nothing and it didn't come from something. It only became something once it started to expand into the four fundamental interactions that we have today.

You have to think about it as a paradox, because whatever it was is not reconcilable with what we perceive as being part of the physical universe or predictable by physical sciences.

In our subjective etymological terms, it was something, but in scientific terms, which are what truly matters if you want to quantify it, it was neither nothing nor something to the best of our current knowledge.

The only way we could truly find out would be to artificially create a superunified construct in the laboratory and measure that.

However, there are a number of problems that may arise (discounting the obvious problem with energy needed to create it for argument's sake).. one is that it might not register with any instruments that we use to record it.. or it made fade out of existence in the instant that it is created because it is not naturally part of our universe.. or it could cause a premature Big Crunch by virtue of its theoretical hyper-density making our Universe contract in a 'Planck instant' so to speak or all manner of odd things.

You're damn right it's paradoxical. Isn't saying that it came from neither nothing or something just, well, sorry to say it, just bollocks?

[bleuh111]

Originally Posted by Gilbertoo

How much mass is out there? If you combined all the known planets, moons, stars, asteroids, meteors, etc., together to form a single planet, we're talking one big mother, right. How can all of this matter have come from nothing?

Would you be less incredulous if it was only a little bit of matter that had come from nothing, then?

[Biffo the Bear]

Originally Posted by Gilbertoo

You're damn right it's paradoxical. Isn't saying that it came from neither nothing or something just, well, sorry to say it, just bollocks?

Not at all. In terms of linguistics it's bollocks, because you're dealing with descriptive absolutes there.

However, in scientific terms it's as accurate as it can be, because what was there before expansion took place is not bound by the same physical laws that we understand, therefore it's neither nothing or something.

Sort of like asking what's north of the North Pole.

[Hetal]

Here's an interesting site about possible scenarios that came before the big bang.

http://zidbits.com/2011/10/what-happ...-the-big-bang/

[howard h]

Every word we use regarding the universe (universe - that's one for a start) such as start, temperature, size, time, end etc are all man-made words and man-made concepts, in a way that lights in the sky (stars) were just that 300 years ago.

The universe, that's the tiny, tiny, tiny proportion we know of, doesn't have "size" there is no end to the universe. It never started, and it won't finish. It doesn't have a point where there was nothing and doesn't have a point where there will be nothing.

As our intelligence is merely developing and way short of having even the basic understanding of it, it's probably best to leave the universe aside and file it under "cat". It's there, and we'll never, really, understand it, no matter how hard we try.

[bleuh111]

Originally Posted by Gilbertoo

You're damn right it's paradoxical. Isn't saying that it came from neither nothing or something just, well, sorry to say it, just bollocks?

Not to me, I at least partially agree with Biffo's post. My view of reality is that there is what I can only describe as something like a "top level", a single state where there is no difference between existence and non-existence, which is the source of existence and non-existence and those I view as necessary polar opposites of that single state. But this is a loose description of something that humans can't conceive - something that isn't actually something. I'd possibly describe it as the absence of any reality, but again pretty much any attempt to put this in to words is a corruption of the idea I think.

[irishguy]

Originally Posted by howard h

Every word we use regarding the universe (universe - that's one for a start) such as start, temperature, size, time, end etc are all man-made words and man-made concepts, in a way that lights in the sky (stars) were just that 300 years ago.

The universe, that's the tiny, tiny, tiny proportion we know of, doesn't have "size" there is no end to the universe. It never started, and it won't finish. It doesn't have a point where there was nothing and doesn't have a point where there will be nothing.

As our intelligence is merely developing and way short of having even the basic understanding of it, it's probably best to leave the universe aside and file it under "cat". It's there, and we'll never, really, understand it, no matter how hard we try.

Jeez.. thats a bit defeatist. If Copernicus, Ptolemy and Galileo had thought like that we'd might still think we're living in the centre of existence

[Gilbertoo]

Originally Posted by Biffo the Bear

Not at all. In terms of linguistics it's bollocks, because you're dealing with descriptive absolutes there.

However, in scientific terms it's as accurate as it can be, because what was there before expansion took place is not bound by the same physical laws that we understand, therefore it's neither nothing or something.

Sort of like asking what's north of the North Pole.

I'd just wish scientists would just say 'we don't know' rather than attempt to explain it with nothing more than meaningless and largely unprovable theories.

What's north of the North Pole? Just more north, right?

[jsmith99]

I believe that thousands of giant turtles, with worlds on their backs, are swimming through Space to a specific point. When they all meet, they'll mate, and their eggs will turn into new universes.

Otherwise known as the Big Bang Theory. Err...not original

Originally Posted by bleuh111

............ Regardless though, I hold God as meant by the Abrahamic religions to be metaphysically impossible by reason of being logically contingent.

How does 'metaphysically impossible' differ from plain 'impossible'? And what does 'logically contingent' mean?

Originally Posted by bleuh111

......... I believe we do exist, but that it's equally and oppositely true that we don't exist and that those are not a contradiction. .............

Actually, they are ...

[alfster]

Originally Posted by Justmadeit

i dont follow any religious beliefs but personally i dont believe in the big bang theory, it is just that to me... a theory

So you don't believe in gravity then? That's 'just' a theory.

Read up the scientific meaning of theory...

The Big Bang is more of a hypothesis.

Also, why don;t you 'believe in' the Big Bang Theory.

Is this from a basis of knowledge or just personal increduality.