[oldhag]

Originally Posted by Barnes5603

When will she stop being an anorexic?

Anorexia stops once the body weight is nearly back to normal.

I'm an ex-anorexic and the thought of gaining a pound in weight is truly abhorrent. I would rather have died than have to face that.

Thankfully I recovered and my sanity returned.

[asp746]

if she doesnt want to eat then no-one should force her. It's her choice. It's a complicated illness, i cant understand it.

[zx50]

I don't really know if they should or not. If their stomach is used to not taking in hardly any food at all, they might just bring it back up. Besides, isn't anorexia mostly psychological? I dunno, just guessing. Anorexia can sometimes/mostly be fatal eventually from what I've read.

[rivercity_rules]

Force-Feed.

As said, Anorexia is a mental as well as physical condition.

She's not of sound mind, she thinks she'd rather die than get fat (Which she thinks will automatically happen when she eats)

Think it's a bit harsh to call someone mentally ill "silly" or say others deserve food more than her.

[zx50]

It's unbelievable that anorexics think they're fat, but, that's part of the condition.

[The Terminator]

Originally Posted by blueblade

Incidentally, I've deliberately excluded a "don't know" option, because that would be too easy a cop out. I'm just as interested in reasons for your choice, as in the poll itself.

Is being undecided on something really a cop out? I actually don't know.

[zx50]

Originally Posted by rivercity_rules

Think it's a bit harsh to call someone mentally ill "silly" or say others deserve food more than her.

I completely agree. It's completely ridiculous to say that mentally ill people are 'silly'. You don't half see some ridiculous comments on the Internet.

[dekaf]

I voted for no. It's a terribly sad story, but I truly believe in this case she should be allowed to go. Her poor parents have reached that very painful decision too. In my opinion all this is doing is prolonging everyone's pain and suffering.

[zx50]

Originally Posted by The Terminator

Is being undecided on something really a cop out? I actually don't know.

No, it's not a cop out. I really can't decide.

[The Terminator]

Originally Posted by zx50

I completely agree. It's completely ridiculous to say that mentally ill people are 'silly'. You don't half see some ridiculous comments on the Internet.

They mostly come from strange people who spend a lot of time playing a character saying daft things for attention. They're usually banned quick, but some go on for years and years

[blueblade]

Originally Posted by The Terminator

Is being undecided on something really a cop out? I actually don't know.

Well you can see what a close call the poll actually is, on what is a finely balanced moral question. Omitting the undecided option makes people take their ultimate choice if pushed.

If I'd included it there's have been quite a few take it, and I wanted to avoid that.

[Welsh-lad]

Yes.... though it must be a painful and undignified process.
I don't understand anorexics

[Tiffani]

The question is, is she also suffering from another condition that is making her live in terrible pain or is she just suffering from anoxeria. If its the 2nd case I think she she be force fed, because she has a chance of recovery. If she is already very ill or dying from another illness I think she should be allowed to make her own choice. .

[zx50]

Originally Posted by The Terminator

They mostly come from strange people who spend a lot of time playing a character saying daft things for attention. They're usually banned quick, but some go on for years and years

I completely agree.

[Si_Crewe]

I guess it'd have to depend on her history.

I mean, if she's been admitted to hospital with severe malnutrition and that's the first anybody's heard of her then I guess it means she's never previously sought treatment so force-feeding her might help her recover long enough that she can seek treatment for her mental issues and make a recovery.

If, OTOH, a person has a long history of fighting the problem then I think it'd be fair to accept they're not going to get well.

[dorydaryl]

I've voted a reluctant- a very reluctant- 'yes'.
As a recovered anorexic (20 years ago), my treatment was extremely cruel and inhumane. I wasn't physically 'force fed'- it didn't quite come to that- but I was physically restrained and made to eat large meals. It wasn't so much that that was inhumane, it was the way I was treated as a person. It was absolutely disgusting. What I took from it at the time that I was an inconvenience, worthless and deserved to be punished.

If the other support she is receiving (separate to the force feeding) is kind, nurturing and supportive but firm on the principle of improving her health, I think the judge is right to perhaps give her this chance, although she and her parents might not see it this way right now. If her condition and mental state doesn't improve with some weight gain, then perhaps a review could be agreed in a few months' time. As the body is starving, the brain chemistry and sense of distortion does worsen. It really does. It would be wonderful if those around her can help her to find a really good reason to go on- something else to aim for. 32 is not too old to start again. However, if those closest to her have given up on her, maybe she just doesn't have the resources and expertise around her to help her want to live again. Anorexia is kind of a form of psychosis, a distorted sense of thinking which clearly deteriorates alongside worsening health. If she gets up to a reasonably acceptable weight and doesn't actually feel any better after maintaining it for a while (via IV feeding or whatever form it takes- not ramming food into her mouth, though) then perhaps her wishes should be respected. Just feel that she needs last chance. It all seemed hopeless with me at one point- and I know there is a high mortality rate with anorexia- but changes can and do happen.

Oh, and, for those who think it's a 'silly girl's disease', it is a very complex psychological and physical condition which does kill people- men too. I know why I became anorexic and don't need to justify it to anyone. It was certainly less to do with attention-seeking and wanting to look slim and pretty and more to do with the awful personal circumstances which led me to that path. Further, I took plenty of abuse over my condition at the time so am just now at the eye rolling and tutting stage when people espouse ignorant and sarcastic points of view (although they have every right to make idiots of themselves online if they wish to). Some people turn to drugs and alcohol in order to cope. Some become anorexic.

[Lizzy11268]

I voted yes with no reluctance whatsoever. There's making the choice to die because you are going to anyway and in great pain (such as cancer sufferers when drugs no longer help) and then there's choosing to die because you have a totally curable illness. Ok, so I'm not an expert on anorexia, but its a mental issue as well isnt it? Your perception is skewed. You can't just let people die for no reason however much they might think they want to.

I'm sad for her if she feels that way and I hope she gets the help she needs and begins to feel that life is worth living. She may end up a suicide. I really hope that doesnt happen.

[Enfant Terrible]

Originally Posted by blueblade

Well you can see what a close call the poll actually is, on what is a finely balanced moral question. Omitting the undecided option makes people take their ultimate choice if pushed.

If I'd included it there's have been quite a few take it, and I wanted to avoid that.

Yeah, I can see why you left that option out. It is a tough one indeed, but the more I think about it, and considering the fact that the woman (adult, not a child) AND her family have decided that death (as in lack of suffering) is considered to be the better option, I think the judge should have respected this. As well-meaning as his decision may have been, ultimately it is a rather arrogant and uneducated decision.

Some of us want to live no matter what, some of us don't. She may be ill but she is not insane. The official recovery rate for anorexics is around 40%, which is what this judge may have focused on a bit too much. I doubt very much that E stands a 40% chance of full recovery, never mind even 10%. Calling her special and talented does not make a blind bit of difference here.

She clearly does not want to go on and this should be respected. In cases like this people should be left to die in peace, and with their dignity intact.

[dorydaryl]

Originally Posted by Lizzy11268

I voted yes with no reluctance whatsoever. There's making the choice to die because you are going to anyway and in great pain (such as cancer sufferers when drugs no longer help) and then there's choosing to die because you have a totally curable illness. Ok, so I'm not an expert on anorexia, but its a mental issue as well isnt it? Your perception is skewed. You can't just let people die for no reason however much they might think they want to.

I'm sad for her if she feels that way and I hope she gets the help she needs and begins to feel that life is worth living. She may end up a suicide. I really hope that doesnt happen.

My perception is certainly not skewed. I know far more about anorexia (which IS a physical as well as mental condition), psychosis and mental illness than you can imagine. I'm educated to PhD level in health psychology and have had advanced (accredited) counselling training. I've worked with people who are mentally ill, physically and mentally disabled and am also a primary carer for someone with psychotic depression, with physical complications. Physically, this woman may be 'cured' but not all mental illness is curable and it's naive to think so. You did not read my post carefully enough. With all my heart I want her to recover and would urge those around her to help her find a reason to live. I was talking about the quality of the additional support she is or isn't getting. If it's not there then no amount of force feeding is going to do any good, hence my 'reluctant' yes vote. My reluctance also stems from the issue not being so clear cut. 'Force feeding ' is quite an emotive term and we were only given two voting options in this thread. I've seen it time and time again. Please do not patronize me.

[oldhag]

Originally Posted by zx50

It's unbelievable that anorexics think they're fat, but, that's part of the condition.

Actually we don't think we are fat , it's more that we are never thin enough. Any body fat at all is disgusting to us and unless we look like Belson victims and continue to lose weight, we think we have failed.

Originally Posted by zx50

I don't really know if they should or not. If their stomach is used to not taking in hardly any food at all, they might just bring it back up. Besides, isn't anorexia mostly psychological? I dunno, just guessing. Anorexia can sometimes/mostly be fatal eventually from what I've read.

I'm sure they won't pour food into her until she bursts. Starving victims recover, and this is what she is.

Anorexia can be fatal, but most victims either recover or control it.

[dorydaryl]

Originally Posted by oldhag

Actually we don't think we are fat , it's more that we are never thin enough. Any body fat at all is disgusting to us and unless we look like Belson victims and continue to lose weight, we think we have failed.



I'm sure they won't pour food into her until she bursts. Starving victims recover, and this is what she is.

Anorexia can be fatal, but most victims either recover or control it.

Well said

[Lizzy11268]

Originally Posted by dorydaryl

My perception is certainly not skewed. I know far more about anorexia (which IS a physical as well as mental condition), psychosis and mental illness than you can imagine. I'm educated to PhD level in health psychology and have had advanced (accredited) counselling training. I've worked with people who are mentally ill, physically and mentally disabled and am also a primary carer for someone with psychotic depression, with physical complications. Physically, this woman may be 'cured' but not all mental illness is curable and it's naive to think so. You did not read my post carefully enough. With all my heart I want her to recover and would urge those around her to help her find a reason to live. I was talking about the quality of the additional support she is or isn't getting. If it's not there then no amount of force feeding is going to do any good, hence my 'reluctant' yes vote. My reluctance also stems from the issue not being so clear cut. 'Force feeding ' is quite an emotive term and we were only given two voting options in this thread. I've seen it time and time again. Please do not patronize me.

I wasnt

you said you were reluctant in your answer, I was saying I wasnt in mine. I didnt mean anything by it....

I'm sure we all want help for this girl whatever form it takes, but I was definitely not reluctant in my answer.

What its ok for you to say but not for me?

[blueblade]

Originally Posted by dorydaryl

My perception is certainly not skewed. I know far more about anorexia (which IS a physical as well as mental condition), psychosis and mental illness than you can imagine. I'm educated to PhD level in health psychology and have had advanced (accredited) counselling training. I've worked with people who are mentally ill, physically and mentally disabled and am also a primary carer for someone with psychotic depression, with physical complications. Physically, this woman may be 'cured' but not all mental illness is curable and it's naive to think so. You did not read my post carefully enough. With all my heart I want her to recover and would urge those around her to help her find a reason to live. I was talking about the quality of the additional support she is or isn't getting. If it's not there then no amount of force feeding is going to do any good, hence my 'reluctant' yes vote. My reluctance also stems from the issue not being so clear cut. 'Force feeding ' is quite an emotive term and we were only given two voting options in this thread. I've seen it time and time again. Please do not patronize me.

Although in fairness, Lizzy was not actually commenting on your post. Just making her own independent contribution.

[oldhag]

Originally Posted by Enfant Terrible

She may be ill but she is not insane. The official recovery rate for anorexics is around 40%, which is what this judge may have focused on a bit too much. I doubt very much that E stands a 40% chance of full recovery, never mind even 10%. Calling her special and talented does not make a blind bit of difference here.

She clearly does not want to go on and this should be respected. In cases like this people should be left to die in peace, and with their dignity intact.

Yes. She is insane. I know as I had it for many years. Plus, it's not that she wants to die, it's the illness which tells us it is very bad to eat and disgusting to put on weight. Therefore it is less frightening to die than to put on even one pound of fat. Once the weight is on she'll recover.

Not many die even if they don't recover btw.

[dorydaryl]

Originally Posted by Lizzy11268

I wasnt

you said you were reluctant in your answer, I was saying I wasnt in mine. I didnt mean anything by it....

I'm sure we all want help for this girl whatever form it takes, but I was definitely not reluctant in my answer.

What its ok for you to say but not for me?

No, it was nothing to do with that. It was your statement 'Your perception is skewed' that seemed a bit patronizing and of course we can both say what we want. I guess all our perceptions are 'skewed' in a way, though, based on our respective experiences.

You're right though- the main thing we both seem to agree on is that we want this girl to recover and believe she should be given every chance to do so. Improving her physical health will put her in the best position to have a clearer perspective.

If I jumped at you, apologies.