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Top Up TV, will it survive past 2013?


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Old 19-02-2013, 11:23
1andrew1
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UKTV and any other broadcaster can apply to swap their own channels around once a year. Channel 4 did it a few years back when they launched Channel 4+1, moved More 4 to E4's number and E4 got moved to 28.
Channel 20 was of course, originally Virgin 1/Channel One. When it was replaced by Challenge, Challenge had to go down to 46.
Thanks. You're well clued-up so let me pose this to you! In 2010 Virgin 1 changed both its name and its ownership. How different would this be to ESPN changing to BT Sport if it bought ESPN UK?
Pre 1/10/2007 FTN (Flextech then Virgin Media)
1/10/2007 Virgin 1 (Virgin Media)
4/6/2010 Channel One (BSkyB)
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Old 19-02-2013, 16:35
a516
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Thanks. You're well clued-up so let me pose this to you! In 2010 Virgin 1 changed both its name and its ownership. How different would this be to ESPN changing to BT Sport if it bought ESPN UK?
Pre 1/10/2007 FTN (Flextech then Virgin Media)
1/10/2007 Virgin 1 (Virgin Media)
4/6/2010 Channel One (BSkyB)
Virgin 1 was still called Virgin 1 for a while after ownership changed, then it became Channel One, but the programmes/schedule was still the same, it didn't happen all in one go. Channel One was not another channel replacing Virgin 1 as BT Sport would be if it took over ESPN.

Any changes have got to be more gradual, not happen all in one go, a channel has to slowly turn from one thing into another over time.
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Old 19-02-2013, 19:47
chrisy
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Virgin 1 was still called Virgin 1 for a while after ownership changed, then it became Channel One, but the programmes/schedule was still the same, it didn't happen all in one go. Channel One was not another channel replacing Virgin 1 as BT Sport would be if it took over ESPN.
Also, it was ultimately always run by the same company - Flextech, who were renamed VMTV, who were renamed Living TV.

If BT buys ESPN's UK operation, they would be able to rebrand it and use Ch34
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Old 19-02-2013, 21:37
a516
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Also, it was ultimately always run by the same company - Flextech, who were renamed VMTV, who were renamed Living TV.

If BT buys ESPN's UK operation, they would be able to rebrand it and use Ch34
It would still have to be a gradual changeover. Whatever the case, it would be a test of section 7.4 of Digital UK policy.

For the benefit of others on the forum:
In considering whether or not a channel has evolved into a new channel, Digital UK will take into account the following non-exhaustive factors:
Whether the nature of a significant proportion of the content of the channel and the name of the channel have changed. If this is the case, unless there are very clear factors to show that the channel is not a New Channel, the channel will be considered to have evolved into a New Channel;
(ii) The extent to which the type of content of the channel has changed ;
(iii) The extent to which the broadcast hours of the channel have reduced; and
(iv) The channel provider's channel portfolio on other UK TV platforms.
If found to be a "new channel", section 7.2 applies which would result in channel 34 being lost.

(Digital UK policy, January 2013 version 5.1)

Crucially, BT can't just take channel 34, they would have to take over ESPN UK, run it for a while as ESPN UK before changing it to BT Sports. It couldn't just do that on terrestrial - it would have to be on all platforms that ESPN operates on; Digital UK would look at the channel provider's portfolio on satellite and other platforms to see if ESPN to BT was a channel evolution or New Channel.

Like Square 1 Management and MovieMix, any BT takeover of ESPN would have to be done carefully to secure channel 34. I wouldn't be surprised if other broadcasters are looking carefully at what is happening on channel 32 and whether Digital UK query it, as it would set legal precedence in this matter.
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Old 19-02-2013, 23:06
TelevisionUser
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I think BT will know! They'd be daft not to take it if ESPN leave.
Also, it was ultimately always run by the same company - Flextech, who were renamed VMTV, who were renamed Living TV.

If BT buys ESPN's UK operation, they would be able to rebrand it and use Ch34
BT Vision have made it quite clear that they're moving to IPTV broadband streaming channel delivery and I do not see them suddenly changing policy right now - they want out of expensive Freeview/DTT channel leases.

If I recall correctly (and I may not be), this particular slot was leased by Channel Five to Top Up TV which, in turn allowed/sublet/broadcast ESPN on that channel space. Therefore, it's not ultimately in Top Up TV's or ESPN's purview to give that that channel slot away.

All that said, I wouldn't be surprised if BT Vision bought out Top Up TV's operation for a residual sum so that they could get access to Top Up TV's current and lapsed customer database which would allow BT Vision to market their products such as the new Youview service or BT Vision+ with Sport (see http://www.productsandservices.bt.co...ision-compared).
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Old 20-02-2013, 01:25
1andrew1
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It would still have to be a gradual changeover. Whatever the case, it would be a test of section 7.4 of Digital UK policy.

For the benefit of others on the forum:
If found to be a "new channel", section 7.2 applies which would result in channel 34 being lost.

(Digital UK policy, January 2013 version 5.1)

Crucially, BT can't just take channel 34, they would have to take over ESPN UK, run it for a while as ESPN UK before changing it to BT Sports. It couldn't just do that on terrestrial - it would have to be on all platforms that ESPN operates on; Digital UK would look at the channel provider's portfolio on satellite and other platforms to see if ESPN to BT was a channel evolution or New Channel.

Like Square 1 Management and MovieMix, any BT takeover of ESPN would have to be done carefully to secure channel 34. I wouldn't be surprised if other broadcasters are looking carefully at what is happening on channel 32 and whether Digital UK query it, as it would set legal precedence in this matter.
Thanks for posting the guidelines, A516. Based on that information, I would say that channel 32 Big Deal-now-Movie Mix should be "considered to have evolved into a New Channel". As a New Channel, it should forfeit channel 32.
Whether the nature of a significant proportion of the content of the channel and the name of the channel have changed. If this is the case, unless there are very clear factors to show that the channel is not a New Channel, the channel will be considered to have evolved into a New Channel...
The fact that it has evolved does not allow it to retain its position according to these guidelines but this kind of situation is harder to enforce.
Will be interesting to see what develops.
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Old 20-02-2013, 10:16
asimmd
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I was going to subscribe to Sky Sports via TUTV,I already have ESPN.

Problem is with all the talk of TUTV closing,I am wondering if I should still do it.

Also,If I do get Sky Sports and TUTV go,what are the chances of Sky taking my subscription over?

Or should I just forget it.

Alan
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Old 20-02-2013, 10:23
1andrew1
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I was going to subscribe to Sky Sports via TUTV,I already have ESPN.

Problem is with all the talk of TUTV closing,I am wondering if I should still do it.

Also,If I do get Sky Sports and TUTV go,what are the chances of Sky taking my subscription over?

Or should I just forget it.

Alan
Isn't it just a monthly contract? So you have nothing to lose by doing it and you can cancel when it suits you. In the longer term, bear in mind the summer launch of BT Sport and possible end of ESPN UK too.
Obviously worth checking out pricing options on other platforms too.
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Old 20-02-2013, 13:18
alanwarwic
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Was thinking the very same.

Close down talk is simply anti marketing for the benefit of 'sign up for 12 months' alternatives.
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Old 21-02-2013, 07:17
TV Time Mike
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As a long term user of TUTV I would like to point out that there has been talk of the service ending almost monthly since it changed from live tv feeds to downloads etc.

Yes the company is small and yes we don't know what will happen but at the moment you can take up a monthly sports sub, so you could take it for a couple of months while shopping around for something else and then change as it suits as you are only paying monthly.

This is just my view on the matter.
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Old 21-02-2013, 19:17
Kipper2
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I was going to subscribe to Sky Sports via TUTV,I already have ESPN.

Problem is with all the talk of TUTV closing,I am wondering if I should still do it.

Also,If I do get Sky Sports and TUTV go,what are the chances of Sky taking my subscription over?

Or should I just forget it.

Alan
Alan, 1Andrew1 is right, its only a monthly 'contract' so if 41 & 42 cease in the summer as seems likely you can cancel. If you are using a CAM for ESPN then your options are limited: Use a new TV compatible with a CI+ CAM or buy a separate TUTV box (T215 is simplest).
HTH
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Old 22-02-2013, 10:09
asimmd
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Thanks for the replies.

I do use a CAM for ESPN,it is left over from my Setanta Sub.

I have been offered a Box for Sky Sports for half price from TUTV,but I may well cancel
ESPN if I go Sky Sports.

Or I may wait and see what happens when ESPN runs out of Football to show at the end of the season.

Alan
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Old 24-02-2013, 23:08
VisionMan1
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I see that on BTVision both Sky Sports and ESPN have now gone Multicast, for those that order the new IPTV channels. So they are now dual broadcasting on both Infinity and DTT. Interesting development...
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Old 25-02-2013, 16:07
kasg
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Also posted on the "Disney" thread:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21577676
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Old 25-02-2013, 16:32
Everything Goes
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They will keep one ESPN branded channel and I suspect the Football will be moved to BT Sports channels with the mainly US Sports being kept on the ESPN channel. The transaction is expected to complete on July 31, 2013 subject to regulatory approval.

Guess its over and out for ESPN on TopUp TV.


On BT's website:

http://www.btlife.bt.com/entertainme...nels-business/
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Old 25-02-2013, 17:53
VisionMan1
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They will keep one ESPN branded channel and I suspect the Football will be moved to BT Sports channels with the mainly US Sports being kept on the ESPN channel. The transaction is expected to complete on July 31, 2013 subject to regulatory approval.

Guess its over and out for ESPN on TopUp TV.

On BT's website:

http://www.btlife.bt.com/entertainme...nels-business/
I wouldn't start ringing the death knell just yet. There are still many possibilities that could still happen for TUTV.
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Old 25-02-2013, 22:50
Everything Goes
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I wouldn't start ringing the death knell just yet. There are still many possibilities that could still happen for TUTV.
All of them pure fantasy
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Old 25-02-2013, 23:26
1andrew1
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I wouldn't start ringing the death knell just yet. There are still many possibilities that could still happen for TUTV.
Totally agree. One such scenario is being acquired by BT. Year on year people have regularly predicted its demise. They've been proved wrong on every occasion and Top Up TV has outlasted many other platforms including OnDigital/ITV Digital and BSB.
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Old 26-02-2013, 00:19
VisionMan1
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Totally agree. One such scenario is being acquired by BT. Year on year people have regularly predicted its demise. They've been proved wrong on every occasion and Top Up TV has outlasted many other platforms including OnDigital/ITV Digital and BSB.
Absolutely true.

Possibilities - BT could acquire it, giving TUTV users a free shiny new YouView HD box, and subsidised new TV packages too. BT could continue the broadcasting of the sports channels over DTT and TUTV could continue as it is, or there could be a collaboration between both BT and TUTV to tie their links even closer.

So yes, many possibilities.
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Old 26-02-2013, 03:02
Everything Goes
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Absolutely true.

Possibilities - BT could acquire it, giving TUTV users a free shiny new YouView HD box, and subsidised new TV packages too. BT could continue the broadcasting of the sports channels over DTT and TUTV could continue as it is, or there could be a collaboration between both BT and TUTV to tie their links even closer.

So yes, many possibilities.
The Top Up Tv brand would disappear. They would simply become BT Vision subscribers. That is the best case scenario.

Top Up Tv will sell off its bandwidth and subscriber database and it will be over. It's damaged goods with weak branding. No danger of BT letting it continue if they do buy it.
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Old 26-02-2013, 10:51
asimmd
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Well I think I will hang on before comitting to another sports package.

I have been an ESPN subscriber since Setanta,so I am hoping that there may be special deals for subscribers when BT finally take over.

Alan
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Old 27-02-2013, 02:20
VisionMan1
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The Top Up Tv brand would disappear. They would simply become BT Vision subscribers. That is the best case scenario.

Top Up Tv will sell off its bandwidth and subscriber database and it will be over. It's damaged goods with weak branding. No danger of BT letting it continue if they do buy it.
You sound like you want the TUTV brand to just disappear. What have they ever done to you?

And you have to bear in mind there is no guarantee BT will pull they're DTT Sky Sports channels for the 2013/2014 season, as they're broadband network just isn't up to the task of widespread full IPTV live streaming at the moment.
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Old 27-02-2013, 08:10
Everything Goes
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You sound like you want the TUTV brand to just disappear. What have they ever done to you?

And you have to bear in mind there is no guarantee BT will pull they're DTT Sky Sports channels for the 2013/2014 season, as they're broadband network just isn't up to the task of widespread full IPTV live streaming at the moment.
If you we're to ask people outside this forum about Top Up TV I'm sure you would be greeted with puzzled looks. Only one person at my work knew of Top Up TV. The brand is relatively unknown. Therefore it is likely to disappear.

At the very least the future of Sky Sports and even ESPN on DTT has a limited life that can be measured in months at most.
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Old 27-02-2013, 10:27
lstar337
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You sound like you want the TUTV brand to just disappear. What have they ever done to you?
His services box might hold the answer.
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Old 27-02-2013, 10:56
Everything Goes
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His services box might hold the answer.
Well if you cant see the obvious joke in the services box then the joke is on you

(PS it will need updated a few months time)
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