[gregrichards]

What do you think of Nokia's new 808 Pureview with a 41 megapixel sensor?

I really like this phone it takes great pictures from the ones I have seen online. I would really like one but don't have £499 spare hopefully I will pick one up at some point in the future. I know they are planning to put them in the lumia phones but I'm not crazy about the interface.

If anyone manages to get one when they are released let me know what you think of it.

[Step666]

Gimmicky.
The vast majority of people don't need to take 41MP photos - and those who do wouldn't use a phone to do it. If Nokia were really trying to improve cameraphones, they'd be focused on adding optical zoom, not just cramming in extra pixels.

Not to mention, it runs a dead-end OS that wasn't even any good back when it was actually relevant.

They've said they'll bring out WP7 PureView handsets in the future, you're probably best saving your money for one of them.

[gregrichards]

Originally Posted by Step666

Gimmicky.
The vast majority of people don't need to take 41MP photos - and those who do wouldn't use a phone to do it. If Nokia were really trying to improve cameraphones, they'd be focused on adding optical zoom, not just cramming in extra pixels.

Not to mention, it runs a dead-end OS that wasn't even any good back when it was actually relevant.

They've said they'll bring out WP7 PureView handsets in the future, you're probably best saving your money for one of them.

You make some valid points it will be interesting to see how it sells.

[frida_adams]

41 MP camera may be a great feature for Nokia but it attract to the people is a doubt. But they can add some additional features that increase Nokia sales which Android & iOS don't have;

1) Nokia Rich Recording - The capability to record sound with no deformation at around 140-145db. The majority of existing smartphones record up to 110db.

2) FM transmitter - Nokia the single company to contain it so you be able to listen to music with your car stereo with no cables.

[alan1302]

Does anyone know if this is a proper 41 megapixel camera? I was looking on Nikons website and the most they do is 36 mega pixels and that's a professional DSLR camera

[BT@home]

It's not meant to the used with the full megapixels. It uses very good bining algorithms to produce zoom able 5mp and 8mp pictures (hence adding lossless zoom with the need for optical zoom).

The pictures produced are stunning, check out gsmarena and cnet Asia for some proper reviews than the fanboy rants about the OS.

[clonmult]

Originally Posted by alan1302

Does anyone know if this is a proper 41 megapixel camera? I was looking on Nikons website and the most they do is 36 mega pixels and that's a professional DSLR camera

Yes, it is a genuine 41mp sensor, taking images at 38mp (4:3) or 34mp at 16:9.

The images really are stunning in the 5 & 8 mp pureview mode, as has been said check out gsmarena and cnets reviews.

Those Nikon "pro" DSLRs are still far from high end imaging - if you go for full frame cameras, you can get 40, 60 or 80 mp camera backs that have options very similar to pureview. The only catch with those is the cost - between £15 and £25k. Just for the back. Body and lenses required ....

[clonmult]

Originally Posted by Step666

Gimmicky.
The vast majority of people don't need to take 41MP photos - and those who do wouldn't use a phone to do it. If Nokia were really trying to improve cameraphones, they'd be focused on adding optical zoom, not just cramming in extra pixels.

Not to mention, it runs a dead-end OS that wasn't even any good back when it was actually relevant.

They've said they'll bring out WP7 PureView handsets in the future, you're probably best saving your money for one of them.

You've completely missed the point.

Optical zoom is not practical in a small body; invariably it offers horribly compromised optics (look at most compact cameras with folded optics, far from optimal).

The actual quality of images this 808 takes are equal to some bridge cameras, so its well ahead of probably every single dedicated compact camera on the market.

As for it being a dead-end OS that wasn't even any good back then ..... definitely not true. And you obviously haven't used any recent Symbian devices, the interface is good, fast, easy to use. To be honest anyone who finds it harder to use than Android needs a brain check.

Wish people would stop confusing the OS with the UI. Two separate elements.

The WP7 pureview devices won't offer anything like the resolution of the 808 - they will hopefully be good, but not as good as the 808.

[fallyferres]

Nokia 808 camera comparisons:

http://www.gsmarena.com/pureview_bli...review-773.php

http://blog.gsmarena.com/nokia-808-p...38mp-shootout/

http://mynokiablog.com/2012/06/15/cn...lumix-dmc-lx5/

[MrSuper]

Released on June 30th by Amazon UK:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nokia-PureVi...0106802&sr=8-1

[clonmult]

Originally Posted by MrSuper

Released on June 30th by Amazon UK:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nokia-PureVi...0106802&sr=8-1

Except they don't know for sure when it'll be released. Everywhere listing it for the UK is giving a different date. Amazons date has slipped a few times, and even the cost may not be definite.

[Step666]

Originally Posted by BT@home

(hence adding lossless zoom with the need for optical zoom)

Take any 5MP cameraphone, set it to take VGA photos and use the digital zoom - there you go, 'lossless'.

Originally Posted by clonmult

Those Nikon "pro" DSLRs are still far from high end imaging - if you go for full frame cameras, you can get 40, 60 or 80 mp camera backs that have options very similar to pureview. The only catch with those is the cost - between £15 and £25k. Just for the back. Body and lenses required ....

That Nikon is 'full frame'.
You're talking about medium-format systems which are completely different.

Medium-format systems have sensors about the same size as the PureView's screen, that's pretty much the only connection between the two.

Also, to say that the Nikon is far from high-end imaging is simply wrong.

Originally Posted by clonmult

You've completely missed the point.

A £100 phone running an OS with a clear expiry date and a dearth of apps, being sold for the same money as iPhones, One Xs and Galaxy S3s because it features the amazing new features of interpolation and digital zoom (features that proper digital cameras moved away from years ago).
I think I've got the point exactly right.

And it is most definitely a gimmick, the fact that (as you said yourself) Nokia have no intention to produce any more handsets with such high-resolution sensors is proof of that - if it really were the ideal solution for quality cameraphone hardware then they wouldn't be dropping it and they certainly wouldn't be releasing the one example of it as a Symbian handset.

[clonmult]

Originally Posted by Step666

A £100 phone running an OS with a clear expiry date and a dearth of apps, being sold for the same money as iPhones, One Xs and Galaxy S3s because it features the amazing new features of interpolation and digital zoom (features that proper digital cameras moved away from years ago).
I think I've got the point exactly right.

And it is most definitely a gimmick, the fact that (as you said yourself) Nokia have no intention to produce any more handsets with such high-resolution sensors is proof of that - if it really were the ideal solution for quality cameraphone hardware then they wouldn't be dropping it and they certainly wouldn't be releasing the one example of it as a Symbian handset.

100,000 apps is not a dearth, its just not as many as iOS and Android. Is the only important benchmark for a phone the number of apps available?

So what if its a "gimmick"? This gimmick happens to have resulted in one of the best compact cameras ever released to the market. Its audio recording abilities, along with its low light imaging, will make it absolutely perfect for gig recording (something that iPhones, One Xs and S3s cannot even begin to do well).

It is something of a technology demonstration, and will be cut down for use in WP devices - but Nokia have shown that without a doubt they are the clear leaders in mobile imaging, and have bettered Canon/Nikon/Sony in the pocketable camera stakes. Which even you would have to admit is quite an achievement.

What do you suggest is done for zoom on a mobile? Folded optics give lousy quality. Normal compact lenses popping out of the body would be too bulky.

[Gormond]

I like the look of it, I wouldn't mind trying it out myself.

[Step666]

Originally Posted by clonmult

100,000 apps is not a dearth, its just not as many as iOS and Android. Is the only important benchmark for a phone the number of apps available?

Do you have anything to back up that number?
I've tried searching around and can't seem to find anything one way or the other.

I know that recently the Windows Phone Marketplace became the third app store to pass 100k apps (well, app submissions) - but then Symbian never had a single main app store in the way newer OSs do, so that's not conclusive either way.

Originally Posted by clonmult

So what if its a "gimmick"? This gimmick happens to have resulted in one of the best compact cameras ever released to the market. Its audio recording abilities, along with its low light imaging, will make it absolutely perfect for gig recording (something that iPhones, One Xs and S3s cannot even begin to do well).

It is something of a technology demonstration, and will be cut down for use in WP devices - but Nokia have shown that without a doubt they are the clear leaders in mobile imaging, and have bettered Canon/Nikon/Sony in the pocketable camera stakes. Which even you would have to admit is quite an achievement.

I'm just not convinced.

I've seen too many cameras that seem to produce great images only to find that when you start to use them in real life, they don't measure up.
And I've seen even more in the way of Nokia handsets released to some sort of fanfare only to turn out to be complete mess.

Originally Posted by clonmult

What do you suggest is done for zoom on a mobile? Folded optics give lousy quality. Normal compact lenses popping out of the body would be too bulky.

Ha ha, if I could answer that question I'd be off making millions instead of sitting here debating with you

Liquid lenses seem to come around from time-to-time as a potential solution to producing zoom lenses that fit small devices but nothing ever seems to come of it.

[gregrichards]

Hi some great points have been made. I look forward to trying the phone out and picking one up when it's cheaper. There are phones going for £600 on eBay just now crazy money.

If it was priced well they would have a hit on their hands I think.

[clonmult]

Originally Posted by Step666

Do you have anything to back up that number?
I've tried searching around and can't seem to find anything one way or the other.

I know that recently the Windows Phone Marketplace became the third app store to pass 100k apps (well, app submissions) - but then Symbian never had a single main app store in the way newer OSs do, so that's not conclusive either way.

Just what I've read over the last year, sorry but cannot find links to the relevant articles.

Symbian has had the Nokia/Ovi/whatever brand store for years, in exactly the same way that Android and iOS do.

Nokias big mistake was in their initial "offering", which was an app store of a kind before the iPhone was released. Except it was a complete and utter mess.

Originally Posted by Step666

I've seen too many cameras that seem to produce great images only to find that when you start to use them in real life, they don't measure up.
And I've seen even more in the way of Nokia handsets released to some sort of fanfare only to turn out to be complete mess.

I've seen enough in the way of real world results from the 808 to demonstrate it does meet up to Nokias claims - it really is very, very good.

I was surprised that it somehow beat the Olympus micro 4/3rds in the gsmarena blind test, although they did then slightly discredit themselves with the subsequent comparison.

Originally Posted by Step666

Ha ha, if I could answer that question I'd be off making millions instead of sitting here debating with you

Liquid lenses seem to come around from time-to-time as a potential solution to producing zoom lenses that fit small devices but nothing ever seems to come of it.

Liquid lenses have been talked about for a while - they do seem to have potential, I realise thats its quite fundamental research .... but it does seem to all be talk.

[alan1302]

I suppose it is interesting from a tech point of view but can’t really see it being a popular choice…if you just want snap shots then you won’t want to spend this much and if you are a keen amateur or professional photographer you would want to use a proper camera and have full control.

[Step666]

Originally Posted by clonmult

Just what I've read over the last year, sorry but cannot find links to the relevant articles.

Symbian has had the Nokia/Ovi/whatever brand store for years, in exactly the same way that Android and iOS do.

Nokias big mistake was in their initial "offering", which was an app store of a kind before the iPhone was released. Except it was a complete and utter mess.

Don't worry about it.

Personally I wouldn't've pegged it as high as that but then again, there was never the single cohesive focal point that the other OSs have - even the Ovi Store (which I think was the first attempt we'd recognise as an app store nowadays from Nokia) was only launched a little over 3 years ago.
So I suppose there could be a lot of apps just spread across a large number of sources.

Originally Posted by clonmult

I've seen enough in the way of real world results from the 808 to demonstrate it does meet up to Nokias claims - it really is very, very good.

I was surprised that it somehow beat the Olympus micro 4/3rds in the gsmarena blind test, although they did then slightly discredit themselves with the subsequent comparison.

See I don't agree with the outcome of the test, the Olympus is not only better in my opinion but obviously so.
There's just more detail to it's shots than the PureView's.

The PureView IMO is clearly better than the One X and the N8 (one of those Nokia handsets I touched upon before, launched to a great deal of fanfare but pretty poor in reality) but the Galaxy S3 and the iPhone4S give it a much closer run for it's money.

Originally Posted by clonmult

Liquid lenses have been talked about for a while - they do seem to have potential, I realise thats its quite fundamental research .... but it does seem to all be talk.

Maybe the problem if the perceived need for a zoom range.
Even fixed 'steps' of 2x, 3x, 5x or whatever would be a significant advantage over no optical zoom at all.

[clonmult]

Originally Posted by Step666

The PureView IMO is clearly better than the One X and the N8 (one of those Nokia handsets I touched upon before, launched to a great deal of fanfare but pretty poor in reality) but the Galaxy S3 and the iPhone4S give it a much closer run for it's money.

Not sure about the S3 and 4S - neither of those is even up with the N8 on overall still imaging ability, not even vaguely close to the 808s ability ....

Originally Posted by Step666

Maybe the problem if the perceived need for a zoom range.
Even fixed 'steps' of 2x, 3x, 5x or whatever would be a significant advantage over no optical zoom at all.

I've never been happy with a 2 or 3x zoom on any of my cameras (even the DSLR with its original kit lens, although the lens was rubbish). 5x has always struck me as the usable minimum zoom.

Maybe it will happen, but it sure does look like its going to take a good while longer.

[Gormond]

Originally Posted by clonmult

Not sure about the S3 and 4S - neither of those is even up with the N8 on overall still imaging ability, not even vaguely close to the 808s ability ....



I've never been happy with a 2 or 3x zoom on any of my cameras (even the DSLR with its original kit lens, although the lens was rubbish). 5x has always struck me as the usable minimum zoom.

Maybe it will happen, but it sure does look like its going to take a good while longer.

I disagree, I think the 4S takes better pictures, for example:

iPhone 4S
Nokia N8

Zoom in and look at the text on the books for example, the iPhone it's very readable but it's very jaggy and blurry on the Nokia N8.

[flagpole]

Originally Posted by Gormond

I disagree, I think the 4S takes better pictures, for example:

iPhone 4S
Nokia N8

Zoom in and look at the text on the books for example, the iPhone it's very readable but it's very jaggy and blurry on the Nokia N8.

if you think the picture from the 4s is better than the N8 you are blinded by your prejudice.

[flagpole]

Originally Posted by Step666

Gimmicky.
The vast majority of people don't need to take 41MP photos - and those who do wouldn't use a phone to do it. If Nokia were really trying to improve cameraphones, they'd be focused on adding optical zoom, not just cramming in extra pixels.

one of the worst informed posts you've written in a long time.

there is a white paper from nokia that explains the technology.
http://i.nokia.com/blob/view/-/14869...whitepaper.pdf

[alan1302]

Originally Posted by Gormond

I disagree, I think the 4S takes better pictures, for example:

iPhone 4S
Nokia N8

Zoom in and look at the text on the books for example, the iPhone it's very readable but it's very jaggy and blurry on the Nokia N8.

But the rest of the iPhone pic is awful - and as the pics have been taken at different angles it's hard to do a proper comparison but I can easily see there is much better colour and detail on the Nokia pic.

[BT@home]

Dreadful idea of trying to do a comparison shot from different angles and with the subject being changed in-between the shots !!

laughable.