[TheBigM]

Originally Posted by misar

Reading though a few of the above posts I find it difficult to follow the logic of the Nokia supporters. Let us ignore any doubts about the 808's image quality and assume that the explanations of Nokia's reasoning are correct. In that case they spent 5 years developing a 41mp sensor, which is overkill even for top end cameras never mind a phone, then had to launch it as a technology demonstrator because they did not have a competitive smart phone OS capable of using it. It is hard to think of a more damning indictment of any company let alone one having to make major cutbacks because it is on the verge of bankruptcy.

If you've read through the posts, you'd know the 41MP is for a) oversampling to get good 5MP and 8MP shots and b) makes digital zoom viable.

Ordinary cameras can use optical zoom, can have larger lenses etc. This is about solving a problem specifically for cameras on phones which are slowly destroying the compact camera market anyway - i.e. no space for optical zoom.

[swordman]

Originally Posted by TheBigM

If you've read through the posts, you'd know the 41MP is for a) oversampling to get good 5MP and 8MP shots and b) makes digital zoom viable.

Ordinary cameras can use optical zoom, can have larger lenses etc. This is about solving a problem specifically for cameras on phones which are slowly destroying the compact camera market anyway - i.e. no space for optical zoom.

So you will be buying one then yes? what is it replacing

[alanwarwic]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...lly-works.html

The Daily Mail manages to describe things better than most.

[TheBigM]

Originally Posted by swordman

So you will be buying one then yes? what is it replacing

I will personally be waiting for pureview technology to come to windows phone and then buy a new handset as I am not happy with the picture quality on my Lumia 800.

But I would be happy to buy this phone for someone like my mum if she was interested in taking pictures rather than have her own a digital camera as well.

For one thing, it would be easier to share images directly from the phone to email/facebook/etc than find some way of getting the photos from a dedicated camera to her ipad which has become her primary computing device.

The main idea is that people don't need to carry a compact camera around, the way people no longer need to carry an mp3 player around. You could say that problem has already been solved but it depends on if you are satisfied with other phones' cameras especially given the lack of optical zoom and absolutely dire digital zoom on all other phone cameras.

[swordman]

Originally Posted by TheBigM

I will personally be waiting for pureview technology to come to windows phone and then buy a new handset as I am not happy with the picture quality on my Lumia 800.

But I would be happy to buy this phone for someone like my mum if she was interested in taking pictures rather than have her own a digital camera as well.

For one thing, it would be easier to share images directly from the phone to email/facebook/etc than find some way of getting the photos from a dedicated camera to her ipad which has become her primary computing device.

The main idea is that people don't need to carry a compact camera around, the way people no longer need to carry an mp3 player around. You could say that problem has already been solved but it depends on if you are satisfied with other phones' cameras especially given the lack of optical zoom and absolutely dire digital zoom on all other phone cameras.

Heard that about phones for years and the reality is you don't need to carry a compact camera around with you now phone cameras are fine for the vast majority of users. Many cameras come with the ability to upload right now if that is a concern the reality is I just don't see how how this phone will find a home.

[alan1302]

Originally Posted by swordman

Heard that about phones for years and the reality is you don't need to carry a compact camera around with you now phone cameras are fine for the vast majority of users. Many cameras come with the ability to upload right now if that is a concern the reality is I just don't see how how this phone will find a home.

It's more of a proof of concept rather than a phone that will sell big.

Nokia will get this onto a phone with Windows 8 next

[swordman]

Originally Posted by alan1302

It's more of a proof of concept rather than a phone that will sell big.

Nokia will get this onto a phone with Windows 8 next

Then of course there is the added cost this tech adds to a phone on a platform that is not setting the world alight right now. it is nice and seems to work well just cannot see this being a reason to buy a phone even on windows for enough people to make it viable right now.

[Step666]

Apologies in advance for the very long post but this thread has leapt forward a great deal since my last post.

Originally Posted by flagpole

which is utter utter nonsense.

That's your opinion.

Originally Posted by flagpole

the gsm arena test you link to is ridiculous. the N8 image has been resized from 4000x3000 to 3264x2448 not a resize that is going to do the image any good you are examining it on a per pixel level. and then resized as a lossy jpeg

So the very same test that's lauded as proof that the PureView is so great is simultaneously ridiculous because it casts the N8 in a bad light?
Also, if it's so horribly unfair that the N8's images are re-sized, why is the same not true of the PEN's images? And much more to the point, why don't they also look terrible?

You can't have it both ways.

Originally Posted by flagpole

the s3 image has been sharpened. presumably by the phone itself.

you can see the quality of the N8's sensor by looking at the diagonal line on the OMV board. see how it's all jagged on the s3 and a smooth line on the N8.

I'll give you that, the S3's shot has been over-sharpened a bit.

But, as for the N8, just look at any other part of that crop and it looks terrible - the 'Dima style' logo, the tree in the corner, the fire-escape thing in the background, just awful all round.
And before we blame the re-sizing, all of those look significantly better on the PEN's crop, better even than the PureView's.

Originally Posted by flagpole

also take a look at the last set, the ones with the motor bike. the n808's is by far the best image, and the N8's is much better than the S3's

The PureView's shot is not the best and certainly not by far - the spokes of the front wheel of the bike are clearly better defined in the PEN's crop.

What would've been far more telling with that crop were the plants behind the bike but the PEN's shot has people obscuring them, making direct comparisons impossible.

Originally Posted by flagpole

the pure view camera has been in development for two years. and potentially it will be a great USP for nokia at a time when oems struggle to differentiate their hardware. they can not include it currently in the windows phone line up because WP7 can't be made to work with it.

so what would you do?

I suppose it's true to form for Nokia.
Years of expensive R&D culminating in a single handset before everything gets scrapped - they did it with MeeGo too.

As for what any of the rest of us would do, it's a ridiculous question to ask - not least because I doubt anyone who's posted in this thread would've run Nokia into the ground in the same way, meaning that they wouldn't be in a position where expensive, time-consuming R&D projects were being chopped

Originally Posted by grumpyoldbat

I think that people who are still to switch from a feature phone and who don't have, or are looking to replace, a compact camera would definitely look at the Pureview.

Not at £500.
At that price, you can get a superior smartphone and a separate camera and still have money left over.

Originally Posted by TheBigM

Symbian owned the smartphone market

Yes and no.
Symbian technically was the best-selling smartphone OS for a long time but it didn't really own the market in that people buying Symbian phones were generally a) not looking for a smartphone and b) not even aware that what they were purchasing was a smartphone.

Symbian was only ever 'successful' (and I use that term loosely) because Nokia shoved it onto almost everything - if you wanted a Nokia handset with a 'decent' (given the subject of this thread, again that's used loosely) camera you had to buy a Symbian handset, even if you had no interest in smartphones and thought Symbian was something to do with monkeys.

Originally Posted by alan1302

If MS where going to produce WP8 phones then they would have announced them at the same time as telling everyone about WP8

The announcement of the Surface tablets came significantly later than the unveiling of Windows 8, so I don't think that's necessarily true.

Originally Posted by TheBigM

The main idea is that people don't need to carry a compact camera around, the way people no longer need to carry an mp3 player around.

I still use a separate mp3 player, I would never dream of using a phone instead and certainly not in place of a camera.
Phones are fine for the odd shot now and again or situations where quality is not important (uploading to facebook being a prime example) but not when you want to take a good photo.

[grumpyoldbat]

Originally Posted by Step666

Not at £500.
At that price, you can get a superior smartphone and a separate camera and still have money left over.

If you look at my post, I said people who were yet to move to a smartphone from a feature phone. Those people don't buy phones SIM free. In fact, a minuscule percentage of phone users do. There might be a lot more here, but the people on here aren't representative of the general public.

The general public wouldn't be paying £500, they'd get the phone subsidised on a contract, and at that point, even if they have to pay a few quid for the phone, if it replaces a phone and a compact camera, it starts to look like a decent deal.

That said, as I said before I can't see any existing committed smartphone users getting the Pureview, it just doesn't offer enough in the form of a great camera to balance up moving to a tired OS in terminal decline.

[Step666]

Originally Posted by grumpyoldbat

If you look at my post, I said people who were yet to move to a smartphone from a feature phone. Those people don't buy phones SIM free.

Of course not - they tend to be buying them on PAYG, so it'll still be pretty much £500.

The number of people on contracts that include a subsidised handset that don't have smartphones will be relatively few nowadays. Not least because there simply aren't any high-end feature phones any more, there haven't been for a while.
Also, the people that do have subsidised non-smartphones will likely be on extremely low-use tariffs (£10/month or less), meaning that moving to the PureView would still represent a significant increase in their costs.

Plus, with the likes of the HTC One X having already the ~£20/month price point, I just don't see the PureView offering a compelling option for the first-time smartphone buyer.

[drabble]

So tempted as I have no interest in WP and love my N8 running Belle.

Can't see any UK network selling them subsidised though CPW or P4U may do so.

It not like I haven't bought an unsubsidised simfree Nokia before but £500 is a little steep.

[clonmult]

Originally Posted by drabble

So tempted as I have no interest in WP and love my N8 running Belle.

Can't see any UK network selling them subsidised though CPW or P4U may do so.

It not like I haven't bought an unsubsidised simfree Nokia before but £500 is a little steep.

Maybe a little steep, just drop off contract and move to a rolling monthly tariff to mitigate the expense.

[drabble]

Originally Posted by clonmult

Maybe a little steep, just drop off contract and move to a rolling monthly tariff to mitigate the expense.

Have been since 2007.

My N8 cost £275 a couple of years ago and my E72 cost £200 a couple of months after launch.

[RileyM]

Originally Posted by TheBigM

I will personally be waiting for pureview technology to come to windows phone and then buy a new handset as I am not happy with the picture quality on my Lumia 800.

Yes, i'm with you on this.

The photo quality on the Lumia 800 is my only criticism of this great device, but I too wont go back to Symbian, even for PureView. Yes, my N8 was a nice phone, ith great picutre quality but as it got older the Software (Symbian upgrades) quickly started affecting general performance of the device.

If (rather when) PureView comes to Windows Phone, I will be getting one, provided the price is right of course.

[clonmult]

Originally Posted by TheBigM

If you've read through the posts, you'd know the 41MP is for a) oversampling to get good 5MP and 8MP shots and b) makes digital zoom viable.

Ordinary cameras can use optical zoom, can have larger lenses etc. This is about solving a problem specifically for cameras on phones which are slowly destroying the compact camera market anyway - i.e. no space for optical zoom.

And invariably the optical zoom and sensors in the cheaper (probably sub £200) compacts is rarely that good, you can't get a quality sensor and lens for that sort of money.

I compared some shots I took on my N8 a few months back to those my sister took on her new Nikon compact. Cost a few hundred quid, and it wasn't really that good - wish I could remember the model number, but if that was representative of current compact cameras, no wonders that Canon/Nikon/etc are worried with mobile imaging developments.

For Samsung and Sony its not so bad, they're already well entrenched in the mobile imaging space, but for Canon and Nikon its a very different story (but their bridge and DSLR markets are totally safe)

[fallyferres]

I can't wait to lay my hands on this phone as i would like to retire my N8 now.

I don't care about apps and all that ecosystem jazz and am comfortable with the beast of a camera, offline maps for various countries as i travel extensively and use the fm transmitter as well.

At the end of the day, each to their own. We all can't like the same products......

[flagpole]

Originally Posted by fallyferres

I can't wait to lay my hands on this phone as i would like to retire my N8 now.

I don't care about apps and all that ecosystem jazz and am comfortable with the beast of a camera, offline maps for various countries as i travel extensively and use the fm transmitter as well.

At the end of the day, each to their own. We all can't like the same products......

Good.

I'd like one too as i am also waiting to retire my N8 and i'm actually a huge fan of symbian. i just can't quite commit. if money were no object then i would buy one whilst i wait for someone to invent the phone i do want.

[fallyferres]

Apparently Orange and o2 will sell the phone but it's not confirmed......

See - http://mynokiablog.com/2012/06/26/no...ly-o2-in-june/

[MrSuper]

Full review by GSMArena:

The Nokia 808 PureView is the best cameraphone ever made. End of story.

The camera is of course the single most prominent feature of the 808 - both in terms of physical appearance and level of interest. It beats every other phone camera at still photography and the flexibility offered by the camcorder is unmatched. And don't forget the zoom - the zoom alone is reason enough to want to buy one.

Still, back in the day, the Nokia N8 sold 4 million units in under a year, so it's not impossible for the 808 PureView become one of the company's bestsellers, even with all those Lumias around. The Nokia 808 PureView is a unique device, one that has virtually no alternative.

http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_808_pu...review-776.php

I'm impressed!

[epsom]

According to this no UK operator will be selling this phone. Will only be available full price at Amazon!

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...ed-uk-networks

[Step666]

Originally Posted by epsom

According to this no UK operator will be selling this phone. Will only be available full price at Amazon!

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...ed-uk-networks

If they only asked the networks directly, that doesn't necessarily mean that the likes of Carphone Warehouse and Phones4U won't be selling it.

[MrSuper]

Originally Posted by epsom

According to this no UK operator will be selling this phone. Will only be available full price at Amazon!

I guess the further west the phone travels, the more expensive it gets!

[clonmult]

Originally Posted by epsom

According to this no UK operator will be selling this phone. Will only be available full price at Amazon!

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...ed-uk-networks

The inquirer ... haven't read that in years. They're possibly even more inaccurate than El Reg.

But to show how wrong they are (or at least show how bad their reporting is), its also going to be available from Clove, Expansys and Play.com. From what I hear Orange are also apparently going to be offering it (but that is just rumours, nothing confirmed).

[MrSuper]

Even GSMArena are saying no UK carriers are offering the phone and it's only available sim-free from retailers.

http://www.gsmarena.com/uk_carriers_...-news-4454.php

[Gormond]

Originally Posted by MrSuper

Even GSMArena are saying no UK carriers are offering the phone and it's only available sim-free from retailers.

http://www.gsmarena.com/uk_carriers_...-news-4454.php

That wont stop places like CPW making up their own deals as they often do.