[Rotationbl]

Originally Posted by DianaFire

And yet nobody associated them with "deceit or something sinister" or Spider-Man wouldn't be on its latest franchise.

So much for the generalisation.

Yes, some made-up super heroes covered their eyes or their whole face, so let's dump the whole generalisation in the bin.

Back in the real world, the vast majority of people would feel intimidated/threatened/scared if someone who was fully covered came towards them. Why did the woman (who was born in this country) think it was appropriate to enter a school (of all places) dressed like that?

[ladymoanalot]

Originally Posted by Rotationbl

Yes, some made-up super heroes covered their eyes or their whole face, so let's dump the whole generalisation in the bin.

Back in the real world, the vast majority of people would feel intimidated/threatened/scared if someone who was fully covered came towards them. Why did the woman (who was born in this country) think it was appropriate to enter a school (of all places) dressed like that?

You really thinks so?

I can honestly whenever a lady in a burka has come to speak to me at exhibitions i have never found them anything other than well mannered and articulate.

I have never felt intimidated once by them coming up to me. then again I do not think burka and equate it to 8 kilograms of semtex.

[Dai13371]

I have never felt intimidated either, probably because almost all of the Emirati and Gulf Arab women dressed in black and had full or half veils. I have often wondered to myself, I bet you love it under all that. If you had your way would you still wear it?

[Rotationbl]

Originally Posted by ladymoanalot

You really thinks so?

I can honestly whenever a lady in a burka has come to speak to me at exhibitions i have never found them anything other than well mannered and articulate.

I have never felt intimidated once by them coming up to me. then again I do not think burka and equate it to 8 kilograms of semtex.

You made that connection, not me. Rather cheap tbh.

[Luce*]

Feel sorry for the poor girl who got kicked out of the restaurant..But it begs the question, why take her to a restaurant? Rubs her face in it a bit doesn't it?

[DianaFire]

Originally Posted by Rotationbl

Yes, some made-up super heroes covered their eyes or their whole face, so let's dump the whole generalisation in the bin.

Back in the real world, the vast majority of people would feel intimidated/threatened/scared if someone who was fully covered came towards them. Why did the woman (who was born in this country) think it was appropriate to enter a school (of all places) dressed like that?

That's another generalisation. It didn't bother anyone in M&S or Primark this Saturday on my local high street that there were women wearing veils and getting their shopping in. No one cared, fainted or crossed the road to avoid them. No one ever does.

As for the story in the link, the woman probably believed it was appropriate to enter the school (of all places) dressed like that because she'd done it twice before without a problem.

[Dai13371]

I remember a muslim womens' group complained that Jeremy Clarkson admitted that a lady in a veil tripped on the zebra crossing and he caught a flash of stocking and suspenders. Its as if modesty dictates that muslim women should never dress sexily. Well, that is surprising judging by the fact that (so I've been told by friends who still live there, Ive not been back to Dubai since 1993) the designer lingerie shops in the Dubai malls have a roaring trade with Arab women.

[ladymoanalot]

Originally Posted by Rotationbl

You made that connection, not me. Rather cheap tbh.

So go on why would anyone be intimidated in the real world?

I mean fair dos they might not like the burka or even agree with what it represents....but if someone is intimidated by a bird in a burka they must have got paranoia issues imho.

[ladymoanalot]

Originally Posted by Dai13371

I remember a muslim womens' group complained that Jeremy Clarkson admitted that a lady in a veil tripped on the zebra crossing and he caught a flash of stocking and suspenders. Its as if modesty dictates that muslim women should never dress sexily. Well, that is surprising judging by the fact that (so I've been told by friends who still live there, Ive not been back to Dubai since 1993) the designer lingerie shops in the Dubai malls have a roaring trade with Arab women.

My experience has been that Muslim women who wear burkas still generally have an interest in fashion but keep this interest in the confines of the house with friends (Im sure one of our Muslim FMs could confirm this or not)

They will also buy sexy lingerie for their husband I would think.

[juliancarswell]

Originally Posted by DianaFire

That's another generalisation. It didn't bother anyone in M&S or Primark this Saturday on my local high street that there were women wearing veils and getting their shopping in. No one cared, fainted or crossed the road to avoid them. No one ever does.As for the story in the link, the woman probably believed it was appropriate to enter the school (of all places) dressed like that because she'd done it twice before without a problem.

But not working there?
You see my problem apart from any social implications is if they were under pressure to wear it because it means that they have no life outside of the home (ie work)
Does it mean that they become home bodies.
I understand wanting to support somebodies right to wear it but what about those who choose not to and are under pressure to do so.
What is the feminist view on this?

[Red Okktober]

Originally Posted by ladymoanalot

They will also buy sexy lingerie for their husband I would think.

I'm surprised allah would allow the husbands to dress in such a way

Lets make up a daft word that allows men to dress in bras and g-strings, how about 'Hamthrop'?

[ladymoanalot]

Originally Posted by Red Okktober

I'm surprised allah would allow the husbands to dress in such a way

Lets make up a daft word that allows men to dress in bras and g-strings, how about 'Hamthrop'?

ha I walked right into that one lol

[DianaFire]

Originally Posted by juliancarswell

But not working there?
You see my problem apart from any social implications is if they were under pressure to wear it because it means that they have no life outside of the home (ie work)
Does it mean that they become home bodies.
I understand wanting to support somebodies right to wear it but what about those who choose not to and are under pressure to do so.
What is the feminist view on this?

I don't work in those places either. It says nothing about me except that my profession is different.

As for those who may be under pressure, women (and men, I daresay) can be under pressure from all sorts of quarters and for all manner of reasons. Very few women in this country wear full veils outside the house, whereas the biggest killer of women aged 25 - 40(?) in the UK is domestic abuse. Personally, I'd be more concerned with the latter issue because it's a lot more widespread, yet it gets little attention on here compared to a handful of veil-wearers, the majority of whom are happy with their choice.

I find the what-about-the-women-who-are-forced-to-wear-it argument somewhat disingenuous in the face of that.

[radiosgalore]

From a security point of view a woman is a bhurka is a potential threat as you cannot see if in fact it even is a woman. For all Mr. Random Security guy knows it could be Britains most wanted. I'm all for the rights to practice ones religion but the bhurka is not required by Islam. I'll bet you if the police did a stop and search they would either not be allowed to ask the woman to remove the veil or if they did force her in order to make a positive ID whatever police force was involved would likely be sued for breaching the womans human rights or some other such idiocy. And likely win too

[DianaFire]

Originally Posted by radiosgalore

From a security point of view a woman is a bhurka is a potential threat as you cannot see if in fact it even is a woman. For all Mr. Random Security guy knows it could be Britains most wanted. I'm all for the rights to practice ones religion but the bhurka is not required by Islam. I'll bet you if the police did a stop and search they would either not be allowed to ask the woman to remove the veil or if they did force her in order to make a positive ID whatever police force was involved would likely be sued for breaching the womans human rights or some other such idiocy. And likely win too

Nice bit of prejudice there.

[radiosgalore]

Originally Posted by DianaFire

Nice bit of prejudice there.

no not really. remember I said potential threat citing innability to identify the person. I did not accuse everyone wearing a bhurka as being a threat. huge difference.

[DianaFire]

Originally Posted by radiosgalore

no not really. remember I said potential threat citing innability to identify the person. I did not accuse everyone wearing a bhurka as being a threat. huge difference.

I never said you did the latter. You assumed that the police officers would all be men. You also said "I'll bet" even though the tiny number of burkha-wearers in this country wouldn't produce enough data to prove a likely outcome in that scenario. Those two instances are where prejudice come in.

[Red Okktober]

Originally Posted by DianaFire

Nice bit of prejudice there.

A terrible cop out of an answer

There was no prejudice in the comment you quoted at all

It would make a pleasant change if people would further their arguments by actually making some salient points rather than accusing others of non-existent prejudice/racism

[blueblade]

Originally Posted by juliancarswell

Genuine question at the risk of showing my ignorance, but when ever I see them in the media or occasionally when I am out and about, they are mostly mums pushing prams, does this mean only married women wear them?
As a matter of interest has anybody come across anybody wearing a full burka in a job? Ever been served by one in a shop or library, or at a train station.
It must restrict the number of employers willing to take you on. When they do have jobs does it mean they stay within their own communities and are less likely to mix with other cultures?

Yes ~ and the same women have also come at other times in Western dress

Originally Posted by bobcar

Did anyone else notice something strange in the report on the Muslim woman, she was going to the college to discuss the "progress of her son Awais, 18" surely since he's 18 they should refuse to talk to her about his progress anyway?

That's a fair point, actually.

[blueblade]

Originally Posted by radiosgalore

From a security point of view a woman is a bhurka is a potential threat as you cannot see if in fact it even is a woman. For all Mr. Random Security guy knows it could be Britains most wanted. I'm all for the rights to practice ones religion but the bhurka is not required by Islam. I'll bet you if the police did a stop and search they would either not be allowed to ask the woman to remove the veil or if they did force her in order to make a positive ID whatever police force was involved would likely be sued for breaching the womans human rights or some other such idiocy. And likely win too

Unless of course they had a damn good reason for a stop and search.

[DianaFire]

Originally Posted by Red Okktober

A terrible cop out of an answer

There was no prejudice in the comment you quoted at all

It would make a pleasant change if people would further their arguments by actually making some salient points rather than accusing others of non-existent prejudice/racism

There was an assumption that all the police officers would be men. That's a prejudiced remark. Last I heard, veil-wearers weren't a separate race unto themselves. Clumsy of you to attempt shoehorning that one in.

Fortunately I remember you from another thread, all misinterpretations and paraphrasing the meaning out of other people's posts, accusing them of meaning only you ascribe to their words in your rewritten versions.

With the use of the 'r' word, I see you're at it again. I'll leave you to it.

[Red Okktober]

Originally Posted by DianaFire

There was an assumption that all the police officers would be men. That's a prejudiced remark. Last I heard, veil-wearers weren't a separate race unto themselves. Clumsy of you to attempt shoehorning that one in.

Fortunately I remember you from another thread, all misinterpretations and paraphrasing the meaning out of other people's posts, accusing them of meaning only you ascribe to their words in your rewritten versions.

With the use of the 'r' word, I see you're at it again. I'll leave you to it.

That all sounds rather clever, but unfortunately doesn't actually mean anything

The point is that you, and others, readily accuse others of being prejudiced or racist as and when you feel like it, and rarely get challenged to explain your accusations, something that I wish more people would do on here

In this instance you have been challenged, and the best you can offer is some nonsense about assuming the police officers were men

Very poor indeed

[stoatie]

Originally Posted by RecordPlayer

It's considered rude not to take your sunglasses off when talking to a someone.

Is it? That's me screwed then... mine are prescription. Take 'em off and then I'M the one who can't see faces. Unless I'm supposed to actually CHANGE glasses every time I speak to anyone. That just seems overly fussy.

And hardly practical. If it's bright enough to need shades, it's not going to get any LESS bright just because you're talking to someone.

[Julie68]

Veils, Burkas, Niqabs etc should be illegal. They have no place in a civilised western society.

[15Million℃]

Originally Posted by radiosgalore

From a security point of view a woman is a bhurka is a potential threat as you cannot see if in fact it even is a woman. For all Mr. Random Security guy knows it could be Britains most wanted. I'm all for the rights to practice ones religion but the bhurka is not required by Islam. I'll bet you if the police did a stop and search they would either not be allowed to ask the woman to remove the veil or if they did force her in order to make a positive ID whatever police force was involved would likely be sued for breaching the womans human rights or some other such idiocy. And likely win too

So your suggesting, Mr Britians most wanted would hide in an outfit that a tiny tiny minority of the population wear? If nothing else I think his hairy hands may give it away.

And so what if it's not required by Islam? Neither are red t-shirts or trainers.