[Stuart_h]

Originally Posted by digimoan

I don't begrudge any human being in jail a warm bed, food clean clothes etc

But I do mind that they have a telly dvd games console etc t me that should be allowed for set times a day and if they are behaving

And as for the budgie

Yep - by all means have a specific TV room and even a games room - access allowed for good behaviour - but not in their rooms IMHO.

[The Wulfrunian]

Hands up who reads the Daily Mail?

Typically simplistic arguments all round.

[clara28]

This thread is so predictable it's laughable.

[Stuart_h]

Originally Posted by The Wulfrunian

Hands up who reads the Daily Mail?

Typically simplistic arguments all round.

Well I dont read the Daily Mail but thanks for your superb contribution to the thread

[Stuart_h]

Originally Posted by clara28

This thread is so predictable it's laughable.

Glad it amuses you ... can i suggest you try the TOWIE forums ?

[clara28]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...rison-in-world

Read this brilliant article and prepare to be horrified. You'll pee your pants in outrage.

The fact is that most prisoners will be released back into society, the emphasis should be on rehabilitation rather than punishment. For the good of society.

[clara28]

Oh sorry Stuart_h, didn't mean to offend and didn't realise I had to ask your permission.

I'm horrified at my outrageous faux pas.

[Glengavel]

Originally Posted by The Wulfrunian

Hands up who reads the Daily Mail?
Typically simplistic arguments all round.

I noticed that one of the prisoners mentioned the Daily Mail when finishing off his unappetising Christmas meal.

How miserable do you have to be before you'll happily get pissed on fermented biscuit juice? I'm suprised the environmental police didn't pounce on the guards for pouring it down the drains.

[Stuart_h]

Originally Posted by clara28

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...rison-in-world

Read this brilliant article and prepare to be horrified. You'll pee your pants in outrage.

The fact is that most prisoners will be released back into society, the emphasis should be on rehabilitation rather than punishment. For the good of society.

Lovely article .... glad its in Norway though ...

A year in Halden costs the state around £116,000, while the average cost of a place in the UK is £45,000.

I can confirm pants are not peed ......

The great thing about forums is that I am perfectly happy to appreciate that you are able to have an opinion that differs greatly from mine.

Me ? I think that if such a crime is committed there should be a fitting punishment. Maybe 18 years of hardship followed by a couple of years of preparation for emergence back into the real world.

If your opinion differs then fine ... but dont class me as a 'Daily Mail' reader or I will label you back as a "woolly liberal"

[clara28]

Umm, I never mentioned the Daily Mail.

[widger]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mex...itentiary_riot

See link above for the horrors of what can happen if prisoners are not given adequate educational and recreational facilities and are locked up for long periods of time with too many other inmates.

[Stuart_h]

Originally Posted by clara28

Oh sorry Stuart_h, didn't mean to offend and didn't realise I had to ask your permission.

I'm horrified at my outrageous faux pas.

well coming onto a forum and then feeling you have to post that its 'laughably predictable' wasnt the most constructive addition to the discussion .....

'laughably predictable because ..... " might have been a better justification for your keyboard time ....

otherwise it just reads that you are just feeling that your (unspecified) opinion was far more relevant and important than whichever opinion you were 'laughing' at .....

anyway, apology accepted

[Stuart_h]

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

Lovely article .... glad its in Norway though ...

A year in Halden costs the state around £116,000, while the average cost of a place in the UK is £45,000.

I can confirm pants are not peed ......

The great thing about forums is that I am perfectly happy to appreciate that you are able to have an opinion that differs greatly from mine.

Me ? I think that if such a crime is committed there should be a fitting punishment. Maybe 18 years of hardship followed by a couple of years of preparation for emergence back into the real world.

If your opinion differs then fine ... but dont class me as a 'Daily Mail' reader or I will label you back as a "woolly liberal"

The last bit was aimed at Wulfrunian ... who was implying readership of the above named newspaper ....

[Stuart_h]

Originally Posted by widger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mex...itentiary_riot

See link above for the horrors of what can happen if prisoners are not given adequate educational and recreational facilities and are locked up for long periods of time with too many other inmates.

nasty business indeed.

but "Prison overcrowding and inferior prison services, common problems in many correctional facilities, were major causes of the disturbance.[1] On the night of the riot, there were 1,136 inmates in a prison designed for only 900.[5] Prisoners were not adequately separated. Many were housed in communal dormitories that were unsanitary and served poor-quality food."

no mention that it was down to lack of Fifa 12 or Toy Story 3 on DVD .....

[clara28]

But I did find the posts 'laughably predictive'. Sometime I like to be concise, sometimes I like to be verbose. People don't always have to be constructive, often times people just want to express their immediate reaction.

[Stuart_h]

Originally Posted by clara28

But I did find the posts 'laughably predictive'. Sometime I like to be concise, sometimes I like to be verbose. People don't always have to be constructive, often times people just want to express their immediate reaction.

Well I felt like pointing you towards the TOWIE forums.


...... sometimes I like to do that

[Helenaka]

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

Compare it to those in jail in the USA and its very luxurious bearing in mind that these people are meant to be in a place of punishmnet for killing another person.

As far as Im concerned they shouldnt be spending the day playing Playstation games and watching TV .... but maybe im just odd

They don't spend all day watching tv or playing on their play stations. It was stated in the programme that prisoners are expected to either work (for which they are paid £12 a week) or undertake educational work.

I presume that they get a certain amount of leisure time when they are allowed to watch tv, etc.

As far as I have read (about prisoners sentenced to life) they are allowed certain priviliges as rewards for good behaviour. Perhaps the budgie's, match stick craft etc, were privileges earnt after a period of sustained good behaviour.

Personally, I think its better to use the carrot approach to prisoners, rather than the stick. As other posters have mentioned there has to be some sort of activities to keep the prisoners occupied.

In the USA (which of course deals with much larger populations of prisoners) they are allowed tv's (in some prisons) and radios. I have yet to hear about playstations, etc. I have heard about stray cats being kept as pets though. Unofficially, certain prisons were allowing their inmate's to keep and feed the stray cats that got in to the jail. IIRR it was believed that it (cat ownership) taught the inmate responsibilities and made them calmer.

[Stuart_h]

Originally Posted by Helenaka

They don't spend all day watching tv or playing on their play stations. It was stated in the programme that prisoners are expected to either work (for which they are paid £12 a week) or undertake educational work.

I presume that they get a certain amount of leisure time when they are allowed to watch tv, etc.

As far as I have read (about prisoners sentenced to life) they are allowed certain priviliges as rewards for good behaviour. Perhaps the budgie's, match stick craft etc, were privileges earnt after a period of sustained good behaviour.

Personally, I think its better to use the carrot approach to prisoners, rather than the stick. As other posters have mentioned there has to be some sort of activities to keep the prisoners occupied.

In the USA (which of course deals with much larger populations of prisoners) they are allowed tv's (in some prisons) and radios. I have yet to hear about playstations, etc. I have heard about stray cats being kept as pets though. Unofficially, certain prisons were allowing their inmate's to keep and feed the stray cats that got in to the jail. IIRR it was believed that it (cat ownership) taught the inmate responsibilities and made them calmer.

Yes - i heard the £12 bit but i thought it was eduction, work or 'sports' that they were required to do. Maybe it was poor editing on the part of CH4 but they certainly seemed to show more of the relaxing than the working.

[Helenaka]

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

Yes - i heard the £12 bit but i thought it was eduction, work or 'sports' that they were required to do. Maybe it was poor editing on the part of CH4 but they certainly seemed to show more of the relaxing than the working.

Personally, I didn't hear the sports bit, but you could well be right about that.

In fairness to the editing, perhaps they were restricted to when and where they could interview the prisoners?

Also, I imagine they were much more likely to get a more in depth interview from someone sitting in their cell, talking face-to-face, as opposed someone concentrating on work, surrounded by other people.

[digimoan]

I agree they didn't explain the work/education ratio compared to the relaxation time

[Helenaka]

Originally Posted by clara28

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...rison-in-world

Read this brilliant article and prepare to be horrified. You'll pee your pants in outrage.

The fact is that most prisoners will be released back into society, the emphasis should be on rehabilitation rather than punishment. For the good of society.

Thanks for the link to this article.
I have read a fair bit about the Norwegian legal system and its prison system whilst following the Breivik trial, but had not come across this article.

I am not suprised that Norway has taken this approach. I have visited Norway on several occasions and always find it to be a respectful and tolerant society.

It would be interesting to see what the reoffending rates are for ex-inmates of Halden Prison.

[maryfair]

Only lifers are allowed caged birds.
Often their family ties will have ceased. They can form an emotional bond with their pet, they can learn to care for it. Simple stuff, but effective. As for the other things mentioned - at any time
everything can be taken from a prisoner. They will have earned privileges over time, but that won't make for good, shock horror tv, so why bother mentioning it.
I think I will leave this thread now, because the next obvious discussion is how we treat prisoners upon release. Can they get work - no, do they have hope- no -oh well there's always crime.

[Stuart_h]

Originally Posted by Helenaka

Thanks for the link to this article.
I have read a fair bit about the Norwegian legal system and its prison system whilst following the Breivik trial, but had not come across this article.

I am not suprised that Norway has taken this approach. I have visited Norway on several occasions and always find it to be a respectful and tolerant society.

It would be interesting to see what the reoffending rates are for ex-inmates of Halden Prison.

Whilst I can see some benefits of this for short term sentences and 'lesser' crimes the fact that someone line Anders Breivik could have been 'doing his time' in a place like this is, to me, quite wrong.

Please note that throughout this thread I HAVE been quite specific that my thoughts are for certain crimes .....

I believe some prisons on the continent only lock people away for weekends (for lesser crimes) giving them the chance to continue working, and therefore providing, whilst taking away their free time. I think thats a great idea.

Last nights show was, however, about those who have taken another life, sometimes in quite brutal ways. Im not sure they are deserving of much tolerance or sympathy IMHO.

[Glengavel]

Originally Posted by digimoan

I agree they didn't explain the work/education ratio compared to the relaxation time

To be fair, it wasn't a documentary about the prison system - it was a look at what makes these people tick.

[clara28]

I couldn't believe the guy (in Rangers jersey) who said he'd kicked and beaten his victim for an hour and a half. What levels of rage he must have stored away.

He definitely must be on a sociopathic scale or similar. His regret at the crime didn't have anything to do with pain inflicted on the victim/victim's family or the taking of a life.