[digimoan]

Originally Posted by Glengavel

To be fair, it wasn't a documentary about the prison system - it was a look at what makes these people tick.

Very true. I think though the producers would have noted the lifers ps3 etc and then said how often etc so that the viewers had a full view point on what their life is like.

As it stood it looked like they did little than their washing and playing games.

Still an interesting programme

[Stuart_h]

Originally Posted by digimoan

Very true. I think though the producers would have noted the lifers ps3 etc and then said how often etc so that the viewers had a full view point on what their life is like.

As it stood it looked like they did little than their washing and playing games.

Still an interesting programme

Definitely interesting. Some horrible stories and some genuine remorse from some.

[Steve35]

Why is Gartree only a Category B, not an A?

[Glengavel]

Originally Posted by clara28

I couldn't believe the guy (in Rangers jersey) who said he'd kicked and beaten his victim for an hour and a half. What levels of rage he must have stored away.

He definitely must be on a sociopathic scale or similar. His regret at the crime didn't have anything to do with pain inflicted on the victim/victim's family or the taking of a life.

He'd probably heard about Rangers going bust.

(OK, bad taste..)

[Helenaka]

Originally Posted by maryfair

Only lifers are allowed caged birds.
Often their family ties will have ceased. They can form an emotional bond with their pet, they can learn to care for it. Simple stuff, but effective. As for the other things mentioned - at any time
everything can be taken from a prisoner. They will have earned privileges over time, but that won't make for good, shock horror tv, so why bother mentioning it.
I think I will leave this thread now, because the next obvious discussion is how we treat prisoners upon release. Can they get work - no, do they have hope- no -oh well there's always crime.

I have no problem at all with lifers having birds/pets nor do I have any problem with them being allowed privileges in return for good behaviour.

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

Whilst I can see some benefits of this for short term sentences and 'lesser' crimes the fact that someone line Anders Breivik could have been 'doing his time' in a place like this is, to me, quite wrong.

I'm not sure that Halden was ever seriously considered for housing Breivik, or whether it was just media speculation.

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

Please note that throughout this thread I HAVE been quite specific that my thoughts are for certain crimes .....

I believe some prisons on the continent only lock people away for weekends (for lesser crimes) giving them the chance to continue working, and therefore providing, whilst taking away their free time. I think thats a great idea.

So do I.

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

Last nights show was, however, about those who have taken another life, sometimes in quite brutal ways. Im not sure they are deserving of much tolerance or sympathy IMHO.

IMHO I feel that there has to be some rehabilitation in the system, as a fair amount of these men are going to released back in to society one day.

[Stuart_h]

interesting contrast on the Gordon Ramsey programme tonight.

Only 10% of prisoners do work whilst inside
That particular prison they spend up to 21 hours in the cell
Prisoners admitting to watching TV all day and all night
Prisoners get a choice of 5 options for meals

Interestingly the prison involved had people convicted from shoplifting to murder. I find it odd that someone caught shoplifting is in a rather unpleasant prison (and definitely not luxurious) yet 'Lifers' were living in moderate comfort.

[Stuart_h]

Originally Posted by Helenaka

I have no problem at all with lifers having birds/pets nor do I have any problem with them being allowed privileges in return for good behaviour.



I'm not sure that Halden was ever seriously considered for housing Breivik, or whether it was just media speculation.



So do I.



IMHO I feel that there has to be some rehabilitation in the system, as a fair amount of these men are going to released back in to society one day.

rehabilitation, yes ... but surely there must be some quite strong punishment in there as a deterrent.

I cant imagine how it must feel to lose a family member in some of the ways described - im sure id want to see more punishment than was apparent in the show.

[sarahj1986]

I watched this show on sky + earlier and it was interesting to watch. The thing I noticed is how normal looking they were, not to say that murderers look any different, but as most of them said in their stories they just snapped and before they knew it they had murdered somebody. I can understand giving them things to do, education etc, some of them will be released and therefore should be given the skills live life outside of prison, but then as one guy said it, he gets fed, clothed, warm bed every day, some of that like routine and comfort of not paying anything and if released commit again to go back in. Interesting watch though

[radyag]

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

rehabilitation, yes ... but surely there must be some quite strong punishment in there as a deterrent.

I cant imagine how it must feel to lose a family member in some of the ways described - im sure id want to see more punishment than was apparent in the show.

That is exactly the problem, we have no real punishment. Prisoners as we saw, treat it for what it is, a hotel by another name. We must return to punishment.

[Helenaka]

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

rehabilitation, yes ... but surely there must be some quite strong punishment in there as a deterrent.

I cant imagine how it must feel to lose a family member in some of the ways described - im sure id want to see more punishment than was apparent in the show.

What would you feel is an appropriate punishment in those circumstances?

[Stuart_h]

Originally Posted by Helenaka

What would you feel is an appropriate punishment in those circumstances?

Well Im no Judge and im guessing it would vary on the level of the crime but in my opinion taking someones life is way up there on the punishment deserved meter ..... theres no 'making it up' to the victim with that one.

[Styles]

Prision should be none stop punishment to break these people and make them suffer every day, I was astounded to see how cushy they had it, it was far better than the UNI halls I had to pay for whern I was at UNI! I may have been better going there and doing my study!

[boksbox]

Originally Posted by Styles

Prision should be none stop punishment to break these people and make them suffer every day, I was astounded to see how cushy they had it, it was far better than the UNI halls I had to pay for whern I was at UNI! I may have been better going there and doing my study!

Of course you would, given that your liberty is lost, which is the punishment and of course you would never know if one of your neighbours might decide to kill you on a whim.

[Fangster]

Originally Posted by Steve35

Why is Gartree only a Category B, not an A?

I used to live near Gartree prison when I was a child (I say near, you could see the prisoner protesting on the roof (a common occurance) through binoculars from our garden).

Before prisons had mesh over the exercise yard, a helicopter landed in the prison yard and some prisoners escaped! Gartree was downgraded from A to B which I thought was bit harsh as all prisons suffered from this design flaw.

Found some info on Wikipedia.

[Parthenon]

Fairly good documentary. Usually, I'd expect to see a group of people proclaiming their innocence, but these guys all seemed pretty cognizant of the fact they were murderers.

[valkay]

I felt sorry for the guy who killed his wife, I think it should have been manslaughter not murder and he should have had a more lenient sentence. He didn't deserve life as he is no danger to members of the public. You read about other cases where they only get 3 or 4 years sentence.

[Dan Fortesque]

Originally Posted by maryfair

I get all that Stuart and I can't begin to imagine how the families of victims must feel.
But we have to do something with these people and for many of them prison is the first stability they will have had. Only in rare cases do people stay locked up for ever so at some point they will be on a street near you - wouldn't you rather that they had some opportunity for reform?

I'd rather all murderers be locked up for life, and none of this being released after 10+ years on licence business.

Originally Posted by valkay

I felt sorry for the guy who killed his wife, I think it should have been manslaughter not murder and he should have had a more lenient sentence. He didn't deserve life as he is no danger to members of the public. You read about other cases where they only get 3 or 4 years sentence.

We only heard his point of view, though, could be a completely different story if we heard his wife's side. Also, we probably didn't get to see what exactly occurred in court, either.

[M@nterik]

Originally Posted by boksbox

You must stay in some crap hotels

Well the rooms do look better than many a travelodge i have stayed in !!!

[princesarock12]

Originally Posted by mychmose

The guy who separated his friends fighting and then proceeded to kill one of them over a 90 minute period was clearly a psychopath/sociopath. Were they keeping him locked up beyond his sentence because of that?

He was definitely wrong in the head, surely they wouldn't let him out.

[Rowieboy]

Clearly mentally ill as were others in my opinion. If that is the case i personally don't think prison is the place for them. The judiciary is getting it wrong.

[radyag]

Originally Posted by princesarock12

He was definitely wrong in the head, surely they wouldn't let him out.

Your joking right? The parole board... a bunch of middle class do gooders who naturally think bad can turn to good after just a decade or so wanking in a prison cell. These do gooders are part of the problem not the solution.

[radyag]

Originally Posted by valkay

I felt sorry for the guy who killed his wife, I think it should have been manslaughter not murder and he should have had a more lenient sentence. He didn't deserve life as he is no danger to members of the public. You read about other cases where they only get 3 or 4 years sentence.

That was my first thought to. The crown must have thought it was murder for some reason we don't know about.

[Sifter22]

The black guy seemed to have it quite cushy, looked more like a bedsit than a prison cell. Most of them didn't care about their crimes or victims and probably have a better life on the inside than they did on the outside. They really need to get tougher.

[radyag]

Originally Posted by Sifter22

The black guy seemed to have it quite cushy, looked more like a bedsit than a prison cell. Most of them didn't care about their crimes or victims and probably have a better life on the inside than they did on the outside. They really need to get tougher.

Sadly it will get worse as the do gooders do not believe in punishment.

[Tiggywink]

Originally Posted by vixyvic

I must admit, while Education, Training and Employment are great, I was surprised one man has been able to complete a degree as it's so expensive.

So did Myra Hindley