It's true, ITV have so may candidates for "worst boss ever"
The Ratings Thread (Part 37)
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Chief Executives are not hands on with the programming. They're dealing with budgets and staffing and different divisions of the company. Peter Fincham has responsibility for these schedules. He heads the team which commissions this stuff.
Originally Posted by Cent:
“Chief Executives are not hands on with the programming. They're dealing with budgets and staffing and different divisions of the company. Peter Fincham has responsibility for these schedules. He heads the team which commissions this stuff.”
“Chief Executives are not hands on with the programming. They're dealing with budgets and staffing and different divisions of the company. Peter Fincham has responsibility for these schedules. He heads the team which commissions this stuff.”
Yes, Lord Peter Fincham. His own boss...
There is no way that Peter Fincham with his track record would go down the route that ITV TV is following. He has clearly been given a remit to follow and work within.
This must be the biggest range in the history of the DSRPG game ever:
1. Wimbledon 2012: 12.6m range (3.0m to 15.6m)
I think that hi-end number is about bang-on. If there's a Murray win, I can see it hitting 17-18m peak?
1. Wimbledon 2012: 12.6m range (3.0m to 15.6m)
I think that hi-end number is about bang-on. If there's a Murray win, I can see it hitting 17-18m peak?
Superstar wasnt bad, it was quite a good show compared to the usual Itv dross. I did say yesterday I didnt hink its ratings would be great but still thought a 4million average was possible. Maybe its time we see Itv1 as a channel which gets lower ratings for its new shows compared to equivalent products on BBC1? A bit like what Channel5 is to Channel4. Channel5 shows some better programmes than Channel4 but most of the time they rate worse than Channel4 when theres similar programming. Perhaps for new entertainment shows not involving Simon Cowell it requires an amazing quality product from Itv to even get on the same level as an average show BBC1. Andrew Lloyd Webbers' last musical show on BBC1 got BARB audience launch of 4.55m. Was yesterdays first episode worth 1.55m ratings worse than Over the Rainbows first episode in quality? It was slightly worse but deserved of a 4m rating. Itv isnt a big channel like BBC1 anymore, it is there to serve the old soap audiences and audiences of old reality shows who watch the channel once or twice a week for just that content because they fall for the hype created by tabloids. Itv is not capable of competing against the mighty BBC1 anymore, I now regard it as a secondary channel with lack of quality content and when the quality content does come, so few people actually have Itv1 on their radar that not many people actually end up watching the good stuff. The executives and shareholders are onto a loser with Itv, they might as well run away from it as quick as they can and back a winner like BBC/Google or an up and coming organisation like Channel5 or Sky.
Originally Posted by ronant:
“Blimey since when has 3-4 million been a success for ITV?”
“Blimey since when has 3-4 million been a success for ITV?
”
They don't seem to have an issue with The Cube getting around that much.
What we were watching in 1985:
1 Eastenders
*aggregated 26+ 29 Dec 1985 BBC1 23.55
2 Coronation Street 02 Jan 1985 ITV 21.40
3 Wish You Were Here 02 Jan 1985 ITV 18.95
3 Open All Hours 06 Oct 1985 BBC1 18.95
5 Last Of The Summer Wine 10 Feb 1985 BBC1 18.80
6 The Prince & Princess of Wales 20 Oct 1985 ITV 18.60
7 It'll Be Alright on the Night 11 Jan 1985 ITV 18.55
8 The Two Ronnies 25 Dec 1985 BBC1 18.50
9 That's Life 17 Feb 1985 BBC1 18.35
10 World Featherweight Championship (Barry McGuigan v Eusebio Pedroza) 08 Jun 1985 BBC1 18.00
Clearly the Grade revolution is well under way at BBC1 as the station has grabbed 6 of the 10 slots, compared with 1 in 1983. What interests me most is how popular Wish You Were Here was in the eighties, I don't recall Holiday getting anywhere near these figures.
1 Eastenders
*aggregated 26+ 29 Dec 1985 BBC1 23.55
2 Coronation Street 02 Jan 1985 ITV 21.40
3 Wish You Were Here 02 Jan 1985 ITV 18.95
3 Open All Hours 06 Oct 1985 BBC1 18.95
5 Last Of The Summer Wine 10 Feb 1985 BBC1 18.80
6 The Prince & Princess of Wales 20 Oct 1985 ITV 18.60
7 It'll Be Alright on the Night 11 Jan 1985 ITV 18.55
8 The Two Ronnies 25 Dec 1985 BBC1 18.50
9 That's Life 17 Feb 1985 BBC1 18.35
10 World Featherweight Championship (Barry McGuigan v Eusebio Pedroza) 08 Jun 1985 BBC1 18.00
Clearly the Grade revolution is well under way at BBC1 as the station has grabbed 6 of the 10 slots, compared with 1 in 1983. What interests me most is how popular Wish You Were Here was in the eighties, I don't recall Holiday getting anywhere near these figures.
Originally Posted by Tassium:
“I started a thread recently claiming ITV boss Adam Crozier is their worse ever chief exec, I think I'm right.”
“I started a thread recently claiming ITV boss Adam Crozier is their worse ever chief exec, I think I'm right.”
It depends. If he continues down this path - then sure. But theres a few ITV dramas that might change things around. Sometimes quality is based on whether you can identify your mistakes and move on. Some execs would just go even more down market; hopefully he seeks a 'middle ground'.
The multichannels do very very well. I half wonder if some focus should move more to them. Try new dramas on them - its worked for BBC Three/E4. ITV 3 could easily have a slower but strong character based prime time drama on it. It costs money sure but am certain it'll prove still to be a growth market in the end.
ITV1 needs to become the centre of these channels, marketing them at times; whilst running the more high budget dramas and the big reality shows.
Its difficult to know the direction ITV1 should take; one thing I feel is certain - they need new faces and fresh blood. Dermot refreshed the X Factor. Why the heck is Amanda Holden the presenter on something like Superstar? What were they thinking with Lets Get Gold?
ITV in many ways think their not taking risks - yet their getting dreadful ratings.
R/B was not a risk - it was stupidity. Their management team needs a clean out.
IIRC BBC1's Holiday 87 was consistently getting 10-11m but Wish You Were Here was always in front by a couple of million.
Originally Posted by Cent:
“Chief Executives are not hands on with the programming. They're dealing with budgets and staffing and different divisions of the company. Peter Fincham has responsibility for these schedules. He heads the team which commissions this stuff.”
“Chief Executives are not hands on with the programming. They're dealing with budgets and staffing and different divisions of the company. Peter Fincham has responsibility for these schedules. He heads the team which commissions this stuff.”
Yes, Charles Allen was a great success too, he gave us the ITV we have today
Originally Posted by Tassium:
“ITV1 has re-defined itself as a low-end channel, so why would anyone choose to tune in to watch poorly made tat? Even when it isn't poorly made tat the reasonable assumption will be that it is.
I started a thread recently claiming ITV boss Adam Crozier is their worse ever chief exec, I think I'm right.”
“ITV1 has re-defined itself as a low-end channel, so why would anyone choose to tune in to watch poorly made tat? Even when it isn't poorly made tat the reasonable assumption will be that it is.
I started a thread recently claiming ITV boss Adam Crozier is their worse ever chief exec, I think I'm right.”
Yes your argument was based around programming on ITV1 (Which he has no detailed responsibility) and for filling the schedules with more and more soaps (the number of soaps hasn't changed in many years).
No comment on ITV's financial position or other off-screen indicators compared to other previous bosses.
You seem to just have a problem with Crozier.
Oh crap, I think I must have blocked out Charles Allan. Yes he is the number 1 culprit for the crapfrest ITV was in around the time of the Granada/Carlton merger.
Although it doesn't look like it, you have to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time - it can't get no worse.
Although it doesn't look like it, you have to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time - it can't get no worse.
Originally Posted by grimshaw:
“ITV1 needs to become the centre of these channels, marketing them at times; whilst running the more high budget dramas and the big reality shows.”
“ITV1 needs to become the centre of these channels, marketing them at times; whilst running the more high budget dramas and the big reality shows.”
Superstar is supposed to be a big reality show and look at how that rated LOL.
I compare Itv to cigarettes. They both used to be popular decades ago, popularity has decreased since, now it's seen as uncool to smoke just like its uncool to watch something on the channel. But there'll still always be a few hardcore addicts of them, although the addicts will decrease and decrease as the years go by.
Originally Posted by grimshaw:
“Its difficult to know the direction ITV1 should take; one thing I feel is certain - they need new faces and fresh blood. Dermot refreshed the X Factor. Why the heck is Amanda Holden the presenter on something like Superstar? What were they thinking with Lets Get Gold?
ITV in many ways think their not taking risks - yet their getting dreadful ratings.
R/B was not a risk - it was stupidity. Their management team needs a clean out.”
“Its difficult to know the direction ITV1 should take; one thing I feel is certain - they need new faces and fresh blood. Dermot refreshed the X Factor. Why the heck is Amanda Holden the presenter on something like Superstar? What were they thinking with Lets Get Gold?
ITV in many ways think their not taking risks - yet their getting dreadful ratings.
R/B was not a risk - it was stupidity. Their management team needs a clean out.”
There are no good ideas coming through when it comes to entertainment shows.
It's not as if every other channel is having a major sucess with lots of new formats.
The BBC have so few ideas their last one was bought in from overseas and this summer they've decided to just shove some films on.
Channel 4 recomissions everything that gets about 1 million viewers and then runs series after series without any gaps. Channel 5 are still persisting with Big Brother as there saviour.
Originally Posted by ronant:
“Saturday Kitchen beat most of ITV's primetime line-up. Breakfast beat one ITV primetime show and was only thousands away from beating another two.
Says it all really. It is sad to see ITV so so reliant on a few programmes - but they've put all their eggs in one basket and so the chickens are now coming home to roost, so to speak.”
“Saturday Kitchen beat most of ITV's primetime line-up. Breakfast beat one ITV primetime show and was only thousands away from beating another two.
Says it all really. It is sad to see ITV so so reliant on a few programmes - but they've put all their eggs in one basket and so the chickens are now coming home to roost, so to speak.”
Even in entertainment commissioning they didn't put all their eggs in one basket. From 2004-2010 they commissioned three shows from Syco and two of them happened to be massive global hits. They have commissioned countless other entertainment series, mainly from ITVS/12 Yard and none of them have really stuck. They also commissioned more from Endemol than they did from Syco, it just didn't work out. The only one that has is Take Me Out and it's from Thames!
People keep saying that ITV has turned itself into the XF/BGT channel and can't get other people to watch. The ratings tell us it's the total opposite. They can't get XF viewers to watch their other entertainment series. But they generally have no trouble drawing an audience for a new drama series.
I said it last summer but films are probably the way to go at this time of year. Elaine Bedell's commissioning has been atrocious but she does seem to be in a difficult position - Superstar just highlights that. There's just no audience coming in for them. They probably need to look at wider marketing as well for some tentpole series.
Originally Posted by Tassium:
“Yes, Lord Peter Fincham. His own boss...
There is no way that Peter Fincham with his track record would go down the route that ITV TV is following. He has clearly been given a remit to follow and work within.”
“Yes, Lord Peter Fincham. His own boss...
There is no way that Peter Fincham with his track record would go down the route that ITV TV is following. He has clearly been given a remit to follow and work within.”
That would be Peter Fincham who commissioned the ALW series (I think?!) at the BBC and created The One Show? There's nothing particularly "off" about ITV's schedule last night. Ms Bedell commissioned duds frequently when she was at the BBC. Panel shows, talent shows, game shows... pretty standard stuff.
Originally Posted by F1Ken:
“If our terrestrial channels especially ITV1 could wake up and smell the Coffey then Multi channel would be blown out of the water. However They are so lazy they resort to the same old stale programs.”
“If our terrestrial channels especially ITV1 could wake up and smell the Coffey then Multi channel would be blown out of the water. However They are so lazy they resort to the same old stale programs.”
But isn't the message from last night quite the opposite? Trot out a medical soap in Saturday night peak with a film that has been repeated a million times before, throw in a lottery format and you're sorted for 4m+ across the night.
Originally Posted by SamuelW:
“I compare Itv to cigarettes. They both used to be very popular decades ago”
“I compare Itv to cigarettes. They both used to be very popular decades ago”
Bizarre.
Originally Posted by Glenn A:
“What we were watching in 1985:
1 Eastenders
*aggregated 26+ 29 Dec 1985 BBC1 23.55
2 Coronation Street 02 Jan 1985 ITV 21.40
3 Wish You Were Here 02 Jan 1985 ITV 18.95
3 Open All Hours 06 Oct 1985 BBC1 18.95
5 Last Of The Summer Wine 10 Feb 1985 BBC1 18.80
6 The Prince & Princess of Wales 20 Oct 1985 ITV 18.60
7 It'll Be Alright on the Night 11 Jan 1985 ITV 18.55
8 The Two Ronnies 25 Dec 1985 BBC1 18.50
9 That's Life 17 Feb 1985 BBC1 18.35
10 World Featherweight Championship (Barry McGuigan v Eusebio Pedroza) 08 Jun 1985 BBC1 18.00
Clearly the Grade revolution is well under way at BBC1 as the station has grabbed 6 of the 10 slots, compared with 1 in 1983. What interests me most is how popular Wish You Were Here was in the eighties, I don't recall Holiday getting anywhere near these figures.”
“What we were watching in 1985:
1 Eastenders
*aggregated 26+ 29 Dec 1985 BBC1 23.55
2 Coronation Street 02 Jan 1985 ITV 21.40
3 Wish You Were Here 02 Jan 1985 ITV 18.95
3 Open All Hours 06 Oct 1985 BBC1 18.95
5 Last Of The Summer Wine 10 Feb 1985 BBC1 18.80
6 The Prince & Princess of Wales 20 Oct 1985 ITV 18.60
7 It'll Be Alright on the Night 11 Jan 1985 ITV 18.55
8 The Two Ronnies 25 Dec 1985 BBC1 18.50
9 That's Life 17 Feb 1985 BBC1 18.35
10 World Featherweight Championship (Barry McGuigan v Eusebio Pedroza) 08 Jun 1985 BBC1 18.00
Clearly the Grade revolution is well under way at BBC1 as the station has grabbed 6 of the 10 slots, compared with 1 in 1983. What interests me most is how popular Wish You Were Here was in the eighties, I don't recall Holiday getting anywhere near these figures.”
Michael Grade was also a very good scheduler. There's the story about someone coming from the BBC to meet Grade shortly after he became BBC1 Controller. Grade sat by the pool with this guy and basically moved some shows to different slots.That made a huge difference. A prime example was EastEnders in its early days going up against Emmerdale at 7pm and getting beaten regularly. Grade just moved the show to 7.30pm and then it grew into a massive hit. He said BBC1 had lots of good shows but people didn't always know about them due to bad promotion and scheduling.
Originally Posted by C14E:
“They didn't put all their eggs in one basket. From 2004-2010 they commissioned three shows from Syco and two of them happened to be massive global hits. They have commissioned countless other entertainment series, mainly from ITVS/12 Yard and none of them have really stuck. They also commissioned more from Endemol than they did from Syco, it just didn't work out. The only one that has is Take Me Out and it's from Thames!
People keep saying that ITV has turned itself into the XF/BGT channel and can't get other people to watch. The ratings tell us it's the total opposite. They can't get XF viewers to watch their other entertainment series. But they generally have no trouble drawing an audience for a new drama series.”
“They didn't put all their eggs in one basket. From 2004-2010 they commissioned three shows from Syco and two of them happened to be massive global hits. They have commissioned countless other entertainment series, mainly from ITVS/12 Yard and none of them have really stuck. They also commissioned more from Endemol than they did from Syco, it just didn't work out. The only one that has is Take Me Out and it's from Thames!
People keep saying that ITV has turned itself into the XF/BGT channel and can't get other people to watch. The ratings tell us it's the total opposite. They can't get XF viewers to watch their other entertainment series. But they generally have no trouble drawing an audience for a new drama series.”
When there is a channel which has two big hits like XFactor and Britains Got Talent clogging up Saturday schedules for half the year, the channel uses more and more money on these shows for maintaining their production values and marketing, it means less money is spent on other new tv shows. So the new tv shows they make look very poor in comparison to XFactor and Britains Got Talent and look like inferior products and not shows worth bothering with for your average viewer.
Also by showing programmes like XFactor and Britains Got Talent for half the year on Saturday nights, these shows arent popular with older people who used to be loyal to Itv because theyre controversial, loud programmes. These loyal viewers are forced away from the Itv saturday schedules for most of the year and turn to watch BBC Ones diverse schedules of fun family entertainment shows, drama, quiz and Casualty. And they dont end up returning to Itv1 once XFactor, britains Got TAlent or take me out finish as viewers are already happy with BBC Ones offerings. The young 18-34 lot are a fickle bunch and once xfactor, take me out and britains got talent arent on the air, they dont watch Itv on Saturdays, but nor do the typical Itv viewers and that along with poor formats means low ratings.
Originally Posted by 5 a day:
“Bizarre.”
“Bizarre.”
Tobacco smoking prevelance in the UK used to be 70% in the 50s, it now is only 20%. Similar drops have happened in the popularity of Itv hence the comparison.
ITV need to use there big shows (bgt, xf, iac) to lead in to new programmes more often. This is one area that ITV needs to take lessons from the american networks. Of course its not going to work every time, but the issue ITV seem to have is getting people to sample programmes, and this is the best possible way.
Choose a couple of new dramas, that ITV have confidence in, and have the option to be returnable dramas (ensemble dramas in the vein of Londons Burning, Peak Practice), no more of these one off dramas or dramas that have very little returnability in there story. Premier the first episode after the first sunday episode of x-Factor on sunday at 9pm, run the second episode on Monday after Cory at 9pm, work with the producers to do a big cliff hanger episode, then run the remaining episodes at thursday at 9pm, after a special Cory or Emmerdale episode. Week 2 premier a drama again on sunday at 9pm, have the second episode at monday at 9pm, do the double up again for the next week, then put the remain episode episodes on monday at 9pm with the Cory lead in. They could label this premier Sunday, and finish it with Downton Abbey taking over the sunday 9pm slot.
Rather than giving Cory the week long bgt slot, commission a older skewing comedy (in the vein of Benidorm) or a family sit com for at least 8 episodes, and run 5 of the episodes after bgt, then for the remaining episodes see how they work in the thursday 8.30pm slot with a emmerdale lead in.
I know the advertising rules actually penalise ITV One for this approach, and traditionally ITV more and more have moved there big dramas to late october starts, rather than the more traditional late september start, due to trying to get the most bang for their bucks, and earlier starts may leave the chest a bit bare later in the season, but they need take this risk to get a couple more returnable programmes. Even if they can get just one more mid performing returnable drama, they would be a stronger position.
Choose a couple of new dramas, that ITV have confidence in, and have the option to be returnable dramas (ensemble dramas in the vein of Londons Burning, Peak Practice), no more of these one off dramas or dramas that have very little returnability in there story. Premier the first episode after the first sunday episode of x-Factor on sunday at 9pm, run the second episode on Monday after Cory at 9pm, work with the producers to do a big cliff hanger episode, then run the remaining episodes at thursday at 9pm, after a special Cory or Emmerdale episode. Week 2 premier a drama again on sunday at 9pm, have the second episode at monday at 9pm, do the double up again for the next week, then put the remain episode episodes on monday at 9pm with the Cory lead in. They could label this premier Sunday, and finish it with Downton Abbey taking over the sunday 9pm slot.
Rather than giving Cory the week long bgt slot, commission a older skewing comedy (in the vein of Benidorm) or a family sit com for at least 8 episodes, and run 5 of the episodes after bgt, then for the remaining episodes see how they work in the thursday 8.30pm slot with a emmerdale lead in.
I know the advertising rules actually penalise ITV One for this approach, and traditionally ITV more and more have moved there big dramas to late october starts, rather than the more traditional late september start, due to trying to get the most bang for their bucks, and earlier starts may leave the chest a bit bare later in the season, but they need take this risk to get a couple more returnable programmes. Even if they can get just one more mid performing returnable drama, they would be a stronger position.
Originally Posted by AnthonyC:
“IIRC BBC1's Holiday 87 was consistently getting 10-11m but Wish You Were Here was always in front by a couple of million.”
“IIRC BBC1's Holiday 87 was consistently getting 10-11m but Wish You Were Here was always in front by a couple of million.”
Always surprises me that none of the major channels bother with a holiday programme anymore. I know it costs a lot to produce and fly a team around the world to film it, but I've always thought that a well shot HD travel show showing high-end holidays would be popular.
ITV is performing pretty well as a business at the moment despite all these "flops" on ITV1.
- Digital channels are extremely profitable and are performing well, if anything strengthening
- Big sports rights being renewed with huge cost savings - benefitting from BBC cost cuts leaving ITV as the only "major" terrestrial
- Significant other cost savings still being achieved across other areas
As long as the big hitters- ie soaps / big entertainment shows (ie XF, BGT etc) and sport keep performing strongly (which seems likely) then ITV may well be able to keep growing profits even if most "general filler" programming performs very poorly.
In addition to the above they need to keep a decent amount of strong quality drama - not just for ITV1 but because it's key for ITV3 long term.
But as far as everything else on ITV1 is concerned it may not matter too much.
- Digital channels are extremely profitable and are performing well, if anything strengthening
- Big sports rights being renewed with huge cost savings - benefitting from BBC cost cuts leaving ITV as the only "major" terrestrial
- Significant other cost savings still being achieved across other areas
As long as the big hitters- ie soaps / big entertainment shows (ie XF, BGT etc) and sport keep performing strongly (which seems likely) then ITV may well be able to keep growing profits even if most "general filler" programming performs very poorly.
In addition to the above they need to keep a decent amount of strong quality drama - not just for ITV1 but because it's key for ITV3 long term.
But as far as everything else on ITV1 is concerned it may not matter too much.
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