[sovietusername]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ndorica_Opens/

Have just rewatched Series 5 (the best series by the way) on BBC 3 and just had to declare my love for the greatest series finale of ALL TIME, The Pandorica Opens and it's "sequel," The Big Bang. It really is a brilliant story. Matt Smith is great as usual (the best Doctor by the way), as is Karen Gillan (not only a FANTASTIC actress but also the most attractive companion (no, scratch that, human) there's ever been) and Arthur Darvill (one of the best companions, certainly the best male companion) who I was really pleased to have back after his "death." And while we dont find out as much about the clever clever clever concept of River Song's past/future as we do in my other fave finale (you guessed it, wedding of River Song), Alex Kingston also impresses.


But of course the best thing about this story after the acting is the Holy Trinity of good plot, good music & epic moments. The main reason this is such a good story is, well, it's a REALLY good story. Not only is it a real cracker on it's own but it brings to a close everything we've seen in series 5 unlike anything I think I've ever seen before. Not only is it the perfect conclusion but in a way it's like 1 big summary of the fantastic series 5. It wraps up all the little plot threads as well as ticking the emotional box to, bringing to a close the story of the little girl who waited for the Doctor to return, of the woman who finds herself having to choose between the Doctor and Rory, and the first series with Matt Smith as the Doctor with him doing a little victory dance to celebrate at the end. We have heartbreaking moments such as when the Doctor flies into the Pandorica and tells little Amelia that bedtime story while managing to end on a high which previous series hadnt really, viewers losing a comapnion or Doctor at the end of each. But this brings an end to the series while promising more glorious adventures with the same old team. It really is all you could hope for with a series finale, it's packed full of exciting and dramatic and funny moments & the music and direction constantly impress.

I just cant put into words how much I love these 2 episodes and the way it sort of pays homage to the rest of the series e.g. the Doctor's rewind scene, this series is leading up to the finale in a way the others dont, the little moments between characters being as important as the epic prophecies of doom we get throughout. I could go on about this forever, I've already done a massive essay. Just wanted to say how this really is one of the greatest Doctor who stories there's ever been and I highly recommend everyone gives it a rewatch before it's no longer availiable on iplayer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjnht1k8M7w

[CoalHillJanitor]

Yep, it was a cracker. Matt seems so old when he's talking to Amelia about the TARDIS.

[CD93]

I love 11's "Romans" at the end of that speech. He looks suitably surprised and impressed..

[Muttley76]

For me it's the ultimate Doctor Who series finale, and somehow manages to feel both epic and intimate at the same time, wonderful story, great script, some cracking twists, THE most glorious cliff hanger, and a Matt Smith acting tour de force.

eta: and best of all? A gods honest happy ending.....

[TEDR]

I agree with everyone — the best season ender so far; The Wedding of River Song was absolutely appalling in comparison and don't even get me started on the post-Doomsday lot for Tennant. Sure it's arguably a bit of a cheat but it achieves the main point of television, i.e. to be interesting. The stuff back at the wedding is also sheer joy.

[Whovian1109]

My favourite two-parter for a long time, a stunning cliffhanger at the end of the first part, some stunning acting, genuinely touching, brilliantly timey-wimey, terrific Dalek action, he managed to make the Cybermen scary and it was just an awesome two parter with a happy ending we could all enjoy. Geronimo!!!!!!!!!!

[DariaM]

Although I view The Pandorica Opens and The Big Bang as episodes with unrealised potential, the only problem with the edition being good, great or even excellent was the crass writing, inept production values, and "deus ex machina" symptomatic of lazy writing.

Although I award 1 out of 10 for feeble effort, at least it is superior to any crass Russel T Davies ham effort.

[CD93]

Originally Posted by DariaM

Although I view The Pandorica Opens and The Big Bang as episodes with unrealised potential, the only problem with the edition being good, great or even excellent was the crass writing, inept production values, and "deus ex machina" symptomatic of lazy writing.

Although I award 1 out of 10 for feeble effort, at least it is superior to any crass Russel T Davies ham effort.

By that logic, every Series 1-4 episode was 0/10?

Originally Posted by Muttley76

For me it's the ultimate Doctor Who series finale, and somehow manages to feel both epic and intimate at the same time, wonderful story, great script, some cracking twists, THE most glorious cliff hanger, and a Matt Smith acting tour de force.

eta: and best of all? A gods honest happy ending.....

Very much agreed

[Scorpio2]

The Pandorica opens was class and one of my favourite episodes but the Big Bang must have been one of the most silly Who episodes ever but that was probably down to lazy writing.

[sovietusername]

Originally Posted by DariaM

Although I view The Pandorica Opens and The Big Bang as episodes with unrealised potential, the only problem with the edition being good, great or even excellent was the crass writing, inept production values, and "deus ex machina" symptomatic of lazy writing.

Although I award 1 out of 10 for feeble effort, at least it is superior to any crass Russel T Davies ham effort.

I really think your being a bit unfair to RTD and the Moff, their both fantastic writers. RTD was responsoble for bringing back a show which was, quite definately dead. And you CANNOT say Moffatt is guilty of lazy writing. Obviously your entitled to your own views but these episodes really are fantastic and of you watch it you can see it's not lazily written nor is it a deus ex machina. Watch it again. For absolutely everything that happens in the episodes, there is an explanation either throughout those episodes or, even, throughout the ENTIRE series (even if it's only a line or just a logical conclusion reached through what we've been told). You cant say it's lazily written when it's tied in with the entire series, following on from 13 episodes, extremely complicated but all resolved except what isnt meant to be resolved in series 5. Name me, just name me one example of why it's lazily written! Also, inept production values?! WHAT! Every single thing in that episode, every single thing looks fantastic, especially when you compare it with the classic series (particularly those episodes set on alien planets).

[performingmonk]

The 2 parter was a lot of fun and maybe Matt's best performance as the Doctor (so far). Much of series 6 paled in comparison.

[TLC1098]

Originally Posted by performingmonk

The 2 parter was a lot of fun and maybe Matt's best performance as the Doctor (so far). Much of series 6 paled in comparison.

I agree people say that series 5 was crap and series 6 was fantastic but I find that series 5 was much better and series 6 was kinda missing the old Who magic.

[Granny McSmith]

Originally Posted by TEDR

I agree with everyone — the best season ender so far; The Wedding of River Song was absolutely appalling in comparison and don't even get me started on the post-Doomsday lot for Tennant. Sure it's arguably a bit of a cheat but it achieves the main point of television, i.e. to be interesting. The stuff back at the wedding is also sheer joy.

A bit?

Well, The Big Bang was nowhere near as bad as Christmas in Narnia, I'll give it that.

[TEDR]

Originally Posted by Granny McSmith

A bit?

It's less of a cheat than "One will still die" turning out to mean "Well, see, it's a bit like she's dead, see?" or the Doctor being able to deflect lasers because everybody in the world really really wishes he could. And don't even get me started on the Doctor's death being a fixed point and River not being in control because of the suit, except that they still spent all those years raising her for some reason, except that she can prematurely discharge her weapon despite not being in control, except that the Doctor's death wasn't really a fixed point, but that was true anyway because there's knowledge about what will happen if he doesn't die.

And as paradoxes go, it's nothing more significant than we seem to have been fine about in City of Death, The Curse of Fenric, etc.

[allen_who]

Originally Posted by Scorpio2

The Pandorica opens was class and one of my favourite episodes but the Big Bang must have been one of the most silly Who episodes ever but that was probably down to lazy writing.

^^ this

By the way, was this thread opened by Ste Moffat in disguise?

Also, and I know I'm gonna get slaughtered for saying this... but is Karen Gillan reallly all that attractive? (as someone has said above) She's okay - 7/10 but to hear some people talk she's some kind of goddess. I'd take her to the pictures don't get me wrong, but it really wouldn't bother me if she said thanks but no thanks afterwards ...

[Muttley76]

Originally Posted by allen_who

By the way, was this thread opened by Ste Moffat in disguise?

No I'm Ste Moffat.

Because of course no one can possibly genuinely appreciate Moffat's work as a writer, I mean he didn't just win the Dennis Potter award at BAFTA in recognition of his talent as a writer for shows including Doctor Who or anything.

[allen_who]

Originally Posted by Muttley76

No I'm Ste Moffat.

Because of course no one can possibly genuinely appreciate Moffat's work as a writer, I mean he didn't just win the Dennis Potter award at BAFTA in recognition of his talent as a writer for shows including Doctor Who or anything.

Ahhhh Muttley, just because someone gets a face on a stick, it doesn't mean everything they ever touched was worthy of praise. No one could ever tell me that the Big Bang was a clever episode. At best it was easy viewing, at worst it was just plain bonkers.

[Muttley76]

Originally Posted by allen_who

Ahhhh Muttley, just because someone gets a face on a stick, it doesn't mean everything they ever touched was worthy of praise.

Nope, but it does signify he is respected by a lot of people, and therefore to dismiss a thoughtful post that some one clearly spent some time writing praising the episode in such a dismissive and disrespectful way when it should come as zero surprise to you that a lot of people rate his work is unnecessary, and, ironically enough, a rather lazy way to disagree with their post.

No one could ever tell me that the Big Bang was a clever episode. At best it was easy viewing, at worst it was just plain bonkers

well, someone can indeed tell you they think that, you don't have to agree with them, but it doesn't mean that other people, like myself for example,cant think it's a fantastically written episode. In fact I'd go so far as to say I think the majority of the audience thought it was pretty terrific. Your entitled to disagree, no problem.....

[sovietusername]

Originally Posted by allen_who

Also, and I know I'm gonna get slaughtered for saying this... but is Karen Gillan reallly all that attractive? (as someone has said above) She's okay - 7/10 but to hear some people talk she's some kind of goddess. I'd take her to the pictures don't get me wrong, but it really wouldn't bother me if she said thanks but no thanks afterwards ...

Sorry, but, are you of a homosexual orientation? I just dont understand how...?




There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.

[Muttley76]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.

There are tons of great quotes from this story, but this little chunk of dialogue is my favourite, indeed it's perhaps one of the best post 2005 scenes:

"When you wake up, you'll have a mum and dad, and you won't even remember me. Well, you'll remember me a little. I'll be a story in your head. But that's OK: we're all stories, in the end. Just make it a good one, eh? Because it was, you know, it was the best: a daft old man, who stole a magic box and ran away. Did I ever tell you I stole it? Well, I borrowed it; I was always going to take it back. Oh, that box, Amy, you'll dream about that box. It'll never leave you. Big and little at the same time, brand-new and ancient, and the bluest blue, ever. And the times we had, eh? Would've had. Never had. In your dreams, they'll still be there. The Doctor and Amy Pond... and the days that never came. "

The way this pays off in "something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue" is just brilliantly concieved!

[CD93]

"When you wake up, you'll have a mum and dad, and you won't even remember me. Well, you'll remember me a little. I'll be a story in your head. But that's OK: we're all stories, in the end. Just make it a good one, eh? Because it was, you know, it was the best: a daft old man, who stole a magic box and ran away. Did I ever tell you I stole it? Well, I borrowed it; I was always going to take it back. Oh, that box, Amy, you'll dream about that box. It'll never leave you. Big and little at the same time, brand-new and ancient, and the bluest blue, ever. And the times we had, eh? Would've had. Never had. In your dreams, they'll still be there. The Doctor and Amy Pond... and the days that never came.

Actual Favourite Matt Smith moment so far. I have many. But this is the most intimate.

[allen_who]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

Sorry, but, are you of a homosexual orientation? I just dont understand how...?




There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.

I just think that for example Lara Pulver is a million times more attractive than here for example.

Karen is quite plain to me. Would I sleep with her and enjoy it? yes very much so, but if she were to say no to me then it wouldn't bother my ego a bit. No accounting for taste

[sovietusername]

ALSO- What no one seems to remember about the episode is the return of the Autons! who we havent seen since 2005. Everyone goes on about how it makes brilliant use of Cybermen and Daleks (and it does, the cyberman in the pandorica opens is better than we've ever seen them in a while) but forget the good old Nestenes. I thought it was only appropiate their appearence should be mentioned, especially with the death of Caroline John and the recent threads on spearhead from space and terror of the autons. I thought it was a really well executed return, just cos I never expected them to be amking an appearence really

[allen_who]

Originally Posted by Muttley76

Nope, but it does signify he is respected by a lot of people, and therefore to dismiss a thoughtful post that some one clearly spent some time writing praising the episode in such a dismissive and disrespectful way when it should come as zero surprise to you that a lot of people rate his work is unnecessary, and, ironically enough, a rather lazy way to disagree with their post.




well, someone can indeed tell you they think that, you don't have to agree with them, but it doesn't mean that other people, like myself for example,cant think it's a fantastically written episode. In fact I'd go so far as to say I think the majority of the audience thought it was pretty terrific. Your entitled to disagree, no problem.....

I thought having opinions was the whole idea behind forums?

I'm truely glad that you and many others enjoyed this episode, long may that be the case. Alas it did nothing for me though. That said I fully enjoy Matts Doc and many of his stories (as the thread where we mark his stories will show you)

I do think you're being a bit heavy handed in your comments though.

[Muttley76]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

ALSO- What no one seems to remember about the episode is the return of the Autons! who we havent seen since 2005. Everyone goes on about how it makes brilliant use of Cybermen and Daleks (and it does, the cyberman in the pandorica opens is better than we've ever seen them in a while) but forget the good old Nestenes. I thought it was only appropiate their appearence should be mentioned, especially with the death of Caroline John and the recent threads on spearhead from space and terror of the autons. I thought it was a really well executed return, just cos I never expected them to be amking an appearence really

It's easy to forget retrospectively what a big twist the auton thing was, it was very cleverly done.

Although I am a bit old school when it comes to autons, and I don't think you can beat the look of the Pertwee era ones, they are still quite disturbing looking to this day, and I don't think you can say the same for the ones in TPO, although from a plotting point of view it was very effective. Much better used than, say, in Rose.

And I also think TPO is the only time in the post 2005 series that they managed to make the cybermen sinister, which is another big plus point.

I really love the monster mash montage near the conclusion of the episode, the haunting music, and cuts to Amy and Rory/River, as the Doctor is dragged to the pandorica, it's marvellously edited.