[Muttley76]

Originally Posted by allen_who

I thought having opinions was the whole idea behind forums?

I think your kind of missing my point, with respect, it would be nice to see some actual critique of the post rather than what is effectively a dismissal of it as being something that only Moffat would say about the episode. You don't really express an opinion, just summarily dismiss the opinion of the OP. *shrugs*

[allen_who]

Originally Posted by Muttley76

I think your kind of missing my point, with respect, it would be nice to see some actual critique of the post rather than what is effectively a dismissal of it as being something that only Moffat would say about the episode. You don't really express an opinion, just summarily dismiss the opinion of the OP. *shrugs*

I don't really know what your on about?? All I did was agree with someone else's post. It wasn't even expressed in my own words, so how can you say such a thing ?? - perhaps you can find my post that has riled you so and quote it for me so I can see where my respect is lacking.

[Muttley76]

Originally Posted by allen_who

I don't really know what your on about?? All I did was agree with someone else's post. It wasn't even expressed in my own words, so how can you say such a thing ?? - perhaps you can find my post that has riled you so and quote it for me so I can see where my respect is lacking.

It's right there on the last page....

Originally Posted by allen_who

By the way, was this thread opened by Ste Moffat in disguise?

[allen_who]

Originally Posted by Muttley76

It's right there on the last page....

Just a joke, of the same ilk as on the 'Apprentice your fired' when the audience all vote red apart from one or two put up green - and the fired candidate then says 'thanks Mum'

Lighten up., bizzzare

[Muttley76]

Originally Posted by allen_who

Just a joke

Hilarious.

And I don't need to lighten up, thanks so much. I'm perfectly light as it is.

[allen_who]

Originally Posted by Muttley76

Hilarious.

And I don't need to lighten up, thanks so much. I'm perfectly light as it is.

Yes, this is an example of a much better joke

[sovietusername]

Originally Posted by Muttley76

I think your kind of missing my point, with respect, it would be nice to see some actual critique of the post rather than what is effectively a dismissal of it as being something that only Moffat would say about the episode. You don't really express an opinion, just summarily dismiss the opinion of the OP. *shrugs*

dont think anybody meant any offence.

[sovietusername]

However it does seem to be the case that a few say they dont like The Big Bang cos it's a weak story, and I just wanna asky, why? I dont get how it's weakly or lazily written. Where in the story is there a plot element that's weakly written, what is lazy about this episode?

[allen_who]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

However it does seem to be the case that a few say they dont like The Big Bang cos it's a weak story, and I just wanna asky, why? I dont get how it's weakly or lazily written. Where in the story is there a plot element that's weakly written, what is lazy about this episode?

Personally don't align myself with those words 'Lazy Writing' to be honest. There is no such thing in my eyes. Anyone who writes has an imagination and can express themselves in a way to entertain others. Personally would have loved it if Roald Dahl had chance to write a Dr Who script.

I think the objectors to the episode (myself included) had a hangup with how the Doc escaped for the Pandorica - and I really really don't want to start this endless debate again...

Think it should be left as marmite.... for me, what went before it promised so much. I wasn't happy but countless others clearly are

[ShootyDogThing]

The Pandorica Opens is one of my all-time favourite episodes, but I don't really like The Big Bang. It just felt massively anti-climactic, the cliff-hanger was resolved too easily and it seemed to be aimless wandering around an empty museum for most of it...

[Granny McSmith]

Originally Posted by TEDR

It's less of a cheat than "One will still die" turning out to mean "Well, see, it's a bit like she's dead, see?" or the Doctor being able to deflect lasers because everybody in the world really really wishes he could. And don't even get me started on the Doctor's death being a fixed point and River not being in control because of the suit, except that they still spent all those years raising her for some reason, except that she can prematurely discharge her weapon despite not being in control, except that the Doctor's death wasn't really a fixed point, but that was true anyway because there's knowledge about what will happen if he doesn't die.

And as paradoxes go, it's nothing more significant than we seem to have been fine about in City of Death, The Curse of Fenric, etc.

The Pandorica Opens was a perfectly executed first part, setting everything up for a wonderful dénouement (how are they going to get out of this? I can't think!) And it seemed to me Moffat couldn't think, either, so he resorted to a paradox.

Which is fine in it's way.

The writing in both episodes was brilliant - I am a big Moffat fan (usually - I try not to think about Christmas), but there were a few words in TPO along the lines of "if something can be remembered it can be brought back". Unfortunately, this resulted in the daft scene whereby the Doctor returned because Amy remembered him. Because she had time energy in her head from the crack. Pure fairy tale. I like fairy tales, but not in DW.

I also had a problem with the fact that, the stars having gone out, or never having had existed, the earth had seemingly evolved in exactly the same way as it did when they were there - little Amelia still saying her prayer to St Nicholas in a little English village. Sorry, but Nile penguins aren't enough to convey the huge difference the lack of stars would make to life on Earth.

I know I'm being pedantic, and in fact when I watched TPO/TBB in the recent BBC3 repeat, I did enjoy it because I just went with the flow, and it was fun. But at the time of first watching I was disappointed.

[Fire Host]

I don't want to come across as gushing, but I love TPO and The Big Bang to bits. The use of the Cyberman in TPO was excellent, as was the Dalek in TBB (apparently the Paradigm Daleks look fine as long as they're made out of stone. )
The last 10 minutes of TPO is absolutely amazing - as someone said before me, superb editing - and the happy ending of The Big Bang... it took us 5 series, but we got one eventually!

A couple of minor quibbles - the Doctor got out of the Pandorica a bit easily, and the fact it can re-boot the universe is dropped a bit quickly into TBB. With hindsight it would have been so easy to include a quick, throwaway line about it in TPO when River Song's describing the security in Pandorica: "Stasis field, dead-locks, meta-lines, a restoration field... whatever's inside this box is being constantly revitalized just from the sheer power of the thing!"
Or something like that.

Originally Posted by Granny McSmith

I also had a problem with the fact that, the stars having gone out, or never having had existed, the earth had seemingly evolved in exactly the same way as it did when they were there - little Amelia still saying her prayer to St Nicholas in a little English village. Sorry, but Nile penguins aren't enough to convey the huge difference the lack of stars would make to life on Earth..

If the stars never existed at all, the rest of universe wouldn't either, because stars produce all the heavier elements that made up the planets and organisms and what-not. Perhaps it'll make more sense if you believe that Earth stayed the same because it was trapped in the eye of the temporal storm or something.

[So 3008]

Are we supposed to assume the person/people who blew up the Tardis (and the voice) was The Silence; or are we still meant to think that question is unanswered?

[sovietusername]

Originally Posted by allen_who

Personally don't align myself with those words 'Lazy Writing' to be honest. There is no such thing in my eyes. Anyone who writes has an imagination and can express themselves in a way to entertain others. Personally would have loved it if Roald Dahl had chance to write a Dr Who script.

I think the objectors to the episode (myself included) had a hangup with how the Doc escaped for the Pandorica - and I really really don't want to start this endless debate again...

Think it should be left as marmite.... for me, what went before it promised so much. I wasn't happy but countless others clearly are

Roald Dahl would have been so great! (You Only Live Twice is still my fave Bond movie, I actually prefer the movies with mad dr evil type villains owning a massive volcano base who wants to destroy the world and with lots of gadgets to the modern ones with Daniel Craig where it's all abit to grim and gritty for my liking, John Steed over Burne any day!(sean Connery is still the best Bond))

Going back to Dr Who, I dont wwant an endless debate either, just will say that it wasnt really a quick and easy escape. Amy's abilities were seen throughout TPO and TBB while the actual rewind scene must take a good 15 min and produced that incredibly touching scene between the Doctor and little Amelia

[Granny McSmith]

Originally Posted by Fire Host

If the stars never existed at all, the rest of universe wouldn't either, because stars produce all the heavier elements that made up the planets and organisms and what-not. Perhaps it'll make more sense if you believe that Earth stayed the same because it was trapped in the eye of the temporal storm or something.

I know it wouldn't, and I do think it was trapped in a wotsit, but the development from 120 ad would have been totally different!

Anyway, I've got over it now, but people always think it's the paradox which causes problems in liking TBB, and with me it wasn't that. (Though I still found that a bit disappointing).

[supernovadragon]

Originally Posted by allen_who

I just think that for example Lara Pulver is a million times more attractive than here for example.

Karen is quite plain to me. Would I sleep with her and enjoy it? yes very much so, but if she were to say no to me then it wouldn't bother my ego a bit. No accounting for taste

I'd have to echo others - I adore her...She is the most beautiful and stunningly attractive woman that I have ever seen on Doctor Who (Sarah Jane coming second followed by Alex Kingston). She is just amazing

[SuperDude95]

Agreed. I thought that they were both brilliant episodes.

[kendoguk]

Didn't want to start a new thread so I stuck the question in here. dunno if this has been mentioned but during the pandorica opens when they are locking the doctor up around 47 mins 22 seconds it shows 3 cybermen talking to the doctor and to the far right there is an alien that looks a lot like a silent.

I maybe wrong also it might have been mentioned before but for anyone else have a look

[sebbie3000]

Originally Posted by kendoguk

Didn't want to start a new thread so I stuck the question in here. dunno if this has been mentioned but during the pandorica opens when they are locking the doctor up around 47 mins 22 seconds it shows 3 cybermen talking to the doctor and to the far right there is an alien that looks a lot like a silent.

I maybe wrong also it might have been mentioned before but for anyone else have a look

It's a Weevil. The head isn't large enough to be a Silent, nor, in fact, is it anywhere near tall enough.

Also, the Silent aliens were nothing to do with the Alliance. The Alliance and the Silence were not working together. It is because of the two groups working separately the the universe was destroyed by the TARDIS being blown up.

[dapa]

Originally Posted by supernovadragon

I'd have to echo others - I adore her...She is the most beautiful and stunningly attractive woman that I have ever seen on Doctor Who (Sarah Jane coming second followed by Alex Kingston). She is just amazing

The thing that is perhaps sexy about is Karen Gillan or indeed Amy Pond is not only her good looks, but (as often seen in interviews) the fact that she's slightly barmy and would seemingly be great fun to be around

SM has made some great casting choices to date... and it would seem that the prospect of Jenna-Louise Coleman is generally positive in fandom.

Whilst appreciating the challenge, RTD seeming found it difficult to make the show have any real element of hetrosexual appeal. While SM seems to (in my mind) have covered all the bases and even the gay characters are presented in an inclusive way that doesn't feel awkward and forced.

[sohoguy]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

ALSO- What no one seems to remember about the episode is the return of the Autons! who we havent seen since 2005. Everyone goes on about how it makes brilliant use of Cybermen and Daleks (and it does, the cyberman in the pandorica opens is better than we've ever seen them in a while) but forget the good old Nestenes. I thought it was only appropiate their appearence should be mentioned, especially with the death of Caroline John and the recent threads on spearhead from space and terror of the autons. I thought it was a really well executed return, just cos I never expected them to be amking an appearence really

Agree.

One of the things Moffat has done - and doesn't get much credit for - is create a real sense of a Who Universe.

We have Cybermen popping up in cameos; Sontarans and Silurians popping up as one-off characters; and things like the Autons being smuggled into a story that isn't all about them.

It's a very clever, Star Trek-style of approach which I enjoy hugely.

[sohoguy]

Originally Posted by dapa

The thing that is perhaps sexy about is Karen Gillan or indeed Amy Pond is not only her good looks, but (as often seen in interviews) the fact that she's slightly barmy and would seemingly be great fun to be around

SM has made some great casting choices to date... and it would seem that the prospect of Jenna-Louise Coleman is generally positive in fandom.

Whilst appreciating the challenge, RTD seeming found it difficult to make the show have any real element of hetrosexual appeal. While SM seems to (in my mind) have covered all the bases and even the gay characters are presented in an inclusive way that doesn't feel awkward and forced.

There's a difference between casting women you personally find attractive, and somehow failing to appeal to heterosexuals.

A lot of men would said Billie Piper was hot. And Catherine Tate. Perhaps not in such an immediately obvious way as Karen or Jenna-Louise, but certainly sexual in their own way.

And there are lots of other sexy women - and men - around to appeal to heterosexuals. Kylie anyone?

Had RTD not been gay, I don't think people would be even discussing this.

I've also seen some women fans complaining about the sexualisation of companions with Karen and Jenna, so it's not always seen as a positive thing.

[dapa]

Originally Posted by sohoguy

There's a difference between casting women you personally find attractive, and somehow failing to appeal to heterosexuals.

A lot of men would said Billie Piper was hot. And Catherine Tate. Perhaps not in such an immediately obvious way as Karen or Jenna-Louise, but certainly sexual in their own way.

And there are lots of other sexy women - and men - around to appeal to heterosexuals. Kylie anyone?

Had RTD not been gay, I don't think people would be even discussing this.

I've also seen some women fans complaining about the sexualisation of companions with Karen and Jenna, so it's not always seen as a positive thing.

Sexualisation of Jenna, purely because she's an actress who might be seen as easy on the eye?

As a 7 year old, I found Ace to be a great assistant, but I'd likely have been predictability less enthused as a 13 year old

It's a challenging brief; make a primetime sci-fi show that appeals across a wide cross-section of society. You're not going to catch everyone, but I can't think of a drama that works harder than Dr Who at the moment. RTD being gay wasn't an issue for me personally, it's just, for me, the end result was unsatisfying and caused me to lapse after S2.

Someone else that stood out for me, was the scene in S6 which had a black girl hijacking the Tardis with a real, loaded firearm. I was thinking at the time, with the focus in drama often on positive representation, how on earth this got past the BBC exec producers... oh, it's really just River in another role! Keep us surprised and delighted; the show generally does well on that score at the moment.

[allen_who]

Originally Posted by DariaM

Although I view The Pandorica Opens and The Big Bang as episodes with unrealised potential, the only problem with the edition being good, great or even excellent was the crass writing, inept production values, and "deus ex machina" symptomatic of lazy writing.

Although I award 1 out of 10 for feeble effort, at least it is superior to any crass Russel T Davies ham effort.

flippin eck. I think that's the most scathing post I've read on here

[johnnysaucepn]

Originally Posted by allen_who

flippin eck. I think that's the most scathing post I've read on here

As well as candidate for the 2012 DS DW 'Deus Ex Machina' Award.