[Terry Wigon]

Hi.

I was wondering if someone can help with a legal query regarding a fixed penalty notice? I'd appreciate advice/links from people who are familiar with the law either as a lawyer or in the police. I have had a look on the internet but DS is always a mine of knowldge on these sorts of issues.

My friend who is a mechanic was stopped by the police today and given a fixed penalty fine.

Basically, he was moving a car from a lock up down to his workshop, in preparation for an MOT test he has booked in for the car tomorrow. The car was taxed and as a mechanic he had a trader's policy to cover insurance.

The police stopped him and issued a fixed penalty, despite the fact he explained he had to move the car to his workshop to do some last-minute repairs before the MOT.

My friend has always understood that a car can be driven on the road without an MOT, as long as it's going to a place of repair or to get an MOT.

If this is still the case, is it worth him going to court to appeal this issue and the fine? I've seen the fixed penalty form and the officer has copied my friend's name incorrectly from the police computer onto the form. Does this invalidate the penalty form and so could this be something he raises should he appeal this decision?

Any advice gratefully received. Many thanks.

[Migster]

As far as I am aware, you are only allowed to drive with an expired MOT if you are taking your car to a garage for a pre-booked MOT. Your friend wasn't doing this, but instead driving it to his workshop.

[Inkblot]

It is generally an offence to use on a public road, a vehicle of testable age that doesn’t have a current test certificate, except when:
taking it to a test station for an MOT test booked in advance
bringing it away from a test station after it has failed the MOT test, to a place of repair
taking it to a place, by previous arrangement, where problems that caused the vehicle to fail its MOT test, can be repaired
bringing it away from a place where the problems with the vehicle have been repaired
Even in the above circumstances you may still be prosecuted for driving an unroadworthy vehicle if it doesn’t comply with various regulations affecting its construction and use. Your car insurance may also be invalid. - source: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/motoring...mot/dg_4022108

[Terry Wigon]

Thanks for your replies. Looks like he may have to pay then. The MOT station is right next to his workshop so it was a case of taking the car down today just so he could replace a bulb before the MOT tomorrow. (Apparently it's not a straightforward job as it used to be!)

Guess he was just unlucky to do it today and should have done it tomorrow morning. I think he must have misinterpreted the 'place of repair' bit as that seems only to be applicable after an MOT fail and not before. Luckily there was no accident or he may not have been insured even on his traders' policy!

[gulliverfoyle]

a lot of police cars have ANPR to catch people

its a easy 100% conviction to get there stats up

its why the police concentrate on them

unlike burglary which is about 20%

[ganderpoke66]

Bad luck, but the rozzers are right on one hand and uncharitable douche-bags on the other, would that they use the common sense they were born with and give decent folk a break.

[artnada]

Originally Posted by ganderpoke66

Bad luck, but the rozzers are right on one hand and uncharitable douche-bags on the other, would that they use the common sense they were born with and give decent folk a break.

Don't be stupid.

The mech is obviously a hard core criminal and should be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.

The Police were doing an impeccable job IMHO.

[Terry Wigon]

Originally Posted by artnada

Don't be stupid.

The mech is obviously a hard core criminal and should be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.

The Police were doing an impeccable job IMHO.

I don't know if you're kidding but I've told him to expect 'Life' in the Bastille over this heinous crime.

[TheSword]

I know someone that got fined for taking a car to an MOT station for a pre-arranged MOT, I think the guy said quite rightly but a little too cocky maybe that 'How the hell do you expect to get an MOT on a car if you can't get it to a bloody MOT station in the first place, are you daft?'

He got it sorted, and the policeman was reprimanded, bloody idiots a lot of them.

But in this case, it's not clear cut, might be worth a visit to the station though, with some proof of the intentions.

[paulyoung666]

[quote=TheSword;59229605bloody idiots a lot of them.
[/QUOTE]

what , the people who take cars to get an MOT without one , the last thing a sane person would do is argue with the copper that pulled you over

[Supratad]

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

what , the people who take cars to get an MOT without one , the last thing a sane person would do is argue with the copper that pulled you over

There is always an attitude test to pass first. I advocate opening with "I pay your wages, you serve ME, why aren't you out catching real criminals ? You're nothing more than govt legalised thugs."

Or if you prefer "I am a Freeman on the land and this is not a car"

Both can certainly brighten up a dull existence thus far.

[far2cool]

Originally Posted by Supratad

There is always an attitude test to pass first. I advocate opening with "I pay your wages, you serve ME, why aren't you out catching real criminals ? You're nothing more than govt legalised thugs."

Or if you prefer "I am a Freeman on the land and this is not a car"

Both can certainly brighten up a dull existence thus far.

hahaha

[nvingo]

Originally Posted by Inkblot

It is generally an offence to use on a public road, a vehicle of testable age that doesn’t have a current test certificate, except when:
taking it to a test station for an MOT test booked in advance..

I don't see how the fact that the test is booked for a subsequent day, or that the testing station may be closed (on a Sunday) invalidates that clause.

[Handers]

The exact letter of the law I am not sure about, but it does seem to me the police should have used common sensibility in this instance. I personally would go to court and plead. I often moan about the police and other authorities (ie ticket inspectors) going for soft targets / easy wins with their fines and this is a prime example!

[Galaxy266]

I think what has been described buy the OP is a very grey area and I wish I knew the correct answer, but I don't.

However, I really do feel that, in this instance, the police should have used a bit of common sense, seen the situation for exactly what is was, i.e. a mechanic carrying out his trade, and not issuing a ticket as happened.

Might be worth going down to the police station and asking to speak to someone in authority.

[MartinImber]

Contest it - taking to place of repair is allowed

[Bedsit Bob]

Originally Posted by MartinImber

Contest it - taking to place of repair is allowed

But only after a fail.

[Somner]

Originally Posted by Terry Wigon

My friend has always understood that a car can be driven on the road without an MOT, as long as it's going to a place of repair or to get an MOT.

That's where you friend is wrong. Absolutely nowhere before being tested does it say 'going to a place of repair'..

Without meaning to sound like an arse, the rule is quite simple - you can drive without tax and MOT if you are driving to or from a prebooked MOT test, by the most direct route.

[Somner]

Originally Posted by gulliverfoyle

a lot of police cars have ANPR to catch people

its a easy 100% conviction to get there stats up

its why the police concentrate on them

unlike burglary which is about 20%

So is there a problem with police cars have a system that automatically identifies road users committing offences that otherwise wouldn't have been visible?

[Bedsit Bob]

Originally Posted by Somner

by the most direct route.

It doesn't specify the "most direct route".

It just says travelling to a pre-arranged MOT.

[gulliverfoyle]

Originally Posted by Somner

So is there a problem with police cars have a system that automatically identifies road users committing offences that otherwise wouldn't have been visible?

depends what you think the police are for

police have limited time

do you think they should concentrate on crime that people fear

eg burglary, street robbery's etc with a low <20% clear up rate

or driving round in there cars looking for easy targets like the motorist 100% clearup rate

which looks good on the crime figures

fitting ANPR to cars costs money that could be spent on more manpower

i'm more bothered about someone knocking me on the head for my phone than having a expired tax disc

[Supratad]

Originally Posted by gulliverfoyle

depends what you think the police are for

police have limited time

do you think they should concentrate on crime that people fear

eg burglary, street robbery's etc with a low <20% clear up rate

or driving round in there cars looking for easy targets like the motorist 100% clearup rate

which looks good on the crime figures

fitting ANPR to cars costs money that could be spent on more manpower

i'm more bothered about someone knocking me on the head for my phone than having a expired tax disc

We all know that often, no tax or insurance can lead an officer to discover other crimes, such as drug possession. Its a perfectly valid means of crime detection

[Roush]

Originally Posted by gulliverfoyle

depends what you think the police are for

police have limited time

do you think they should concentrate on crime that people fear

eg burglary, street robbery's etc with a low <20% clear up rate

or driving round in there cars looking for easy targets like the motorist 100% clearup rate

which looks good on the crime figures

Most offences under the Road Traffic Act are not criminal offences and as such don't appear in 'crime figures'.

[Supratad]

Originally Posted by gulliverfoyle

depends what you think the police are for

police have limited time

do you think they should concentrate on crime that people fear

eg burglary, street robbery's etc with a low <20% clear up rate

or driving round in there cars looking for easy targets like the motorist 100% clearup rate

which looks good on the crime figures

fitting ANPR to cars costs money that could be spent on more manpower

i'm more bothered about someone knocking me on the head for my phone than having a expired tax disc

Well lets just look at that again shall we?
How would you suggest the police deal with street crime? More officers on the beat would seem sensible, but how many officers would we need on a street to be able to nick or prevent every mugging? You'd need a HUGE police presence, otherwise the police are left with the sort of info they get now..."er...it was a lad, average height...he had a hoody top on...no I didn't see his face"...and then you wonder why the clearup rate for this sort of crime is so low. Would you still be complaining about police using ANPR if there were coppers on every street corner? It'd be a police state.

Whether you think the police should concentrate on other crimes or not, traffic police deal with traffic crimes, and driving without an MOT certificate in certain conditions IS a crime.

In the OP's case, perhaps the guy should have said he was dropping the car off at the MOT station albeit closed for the next day but he didn't.

[gulliverfoyle]

Originally Posted by Supratad

Well lets just look at that again shall we?
How would you suggest the police deal with street crime? More officers on the beat would seem sensible, but how many officers would we need on a street to be able to nick or prevent every mugging? You'd need a HUGE police presence, otherwise the police are left with the sort of info they get now..."er...it was a lad, average height...he had a hoody top on...no I didn't see his face"...and then you wonder why the clearup rate for this sort of crime is so low. Would you still be complaining about police using ANPR if there were coppers on every street corner? It'd be a police state.

Whether you think the police should concentrate on other crimes or not, traffic police deal with traffic crimes, and driving without an MOT certificate in certain conditions IS a crime.

In the OP's case, perhaps the guy should have said he was dropping the car off at the MOT station albeit closed for the next day but he didn't.

fair enough

but since the tax paying public pays for the police dont they have a say?

if you ask them would you spend £100000 on a subaru impreza with ANPR and 2 coppers to catch a car with no MOT

or 4 coppers on the beat actively looking for robbers who they probably know as they deal with them everyday

I bet I know the answer