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Old 01-06-2013, 14:33
Readingfan
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I read in Charles Sale's column this monring that Graham Taylor won't be working on the Brazil V England game tomorrow because of a serious knee injury that might jeapordise his chances of going to next year's World Cup.

I hope Taylor recovers swiftly. Him and Jimmy Armfield are my favourite pundits on 5 LIve. Sadly I doubt Armfield will be commentating at the World Cup next year and so it would be a shame if Taylor too was to be missing.
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:39
swansea steve
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I believe Taylor hasn't travelled to at least one other England match recently for the same reason. I hope he recovers also as his thoughts at the world cup/European championships are always worth a listen.
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Old 01-06-2013, 18:01
Readingfan
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Yeah I think it was the San Marino away match back in March - of course he might not have been too disappointed to miss that one!!
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Old 01-06-2013, 21:31
toon geordie
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Thanks for the correction Westy and Connor. I missed the mention of WM's DAB coverage of the Aston Villa match.

Did anyone listen to Absolute Radio's coverage of Tottenham v Sunderland for any duration of time? I flicked over to it on a couple of occasions during the afternoon, during which time I heard them cutting across to Adam Bridge and Frank Stapleton at Newcastle v Arsenal on a few occasions. By the time I headed over there during second half stoppage time, they had switched to St James' Park for commentary on the closing stages of that match.

I listened to Matchday Live for the most part this afternoon and I have to say I was very impressed with the service they provided. It was a different kind of Around the Grounds show to the one they usually do, in that they went as close to commentary as they possibly could, although in not quite as stark a manner as was the case on the final day last year (when Adrian Durham handed over the reigns to Sam Matterface at Manchester City v QPR while the matches were taking place). They effectively took regular short bursts of commentary from the four games they had two people at, these being Newcastle United v Arsenal with Graham Courtney and Michael Gray, Tottenham v Sunderland with Sam and Stan, plus to a lesser extent Chelsea v Everton with Ian Danter and Ray Parlour and West Brom v Manchester United with Dave Rowe and Adrian Durham.

I guess the Premier League must now take a fairly liberal approach to what radio stations can do on the final day given that talkSPORT have been allowed to sail close to the wind regarding the length and amount of reports they were able to take from each game and that Radio 5 Live and Absolute appeared to be able to do spells of commentary from their rival station's "exclusive" live game, something that seems to suit all three stations well and is a situation I imagine they'd prefer to the alternative of them all having to work within tighter restrictions regarding what they can do which would curb their ability to cover the games in the way they'd like to.

What Matchday Live did worked really well though and again I was particularly impressed with the role Graham Courtney played in the show. He's been fortunate enough to be their man at the biggest games on the final days of both the Premier League and Championship season this year (which was probably more a question of geography than anything else) and he's done justice to both occasions. Having heard him do what effectively was a partial commentary today, I'd quite like to hear him given the chance to do a full commentary next season. Given the amount of live games they cover during FA Cup Third to Fifth Round weekends this should surely be possible.

The other thing I noticed about Matchday Live today was the lack of commercial breaks while the games were in progress - from memory they had one after they'd finished doing the team news just prior to kick-off and one after the half-time classified scores. That was it until the segue between Matchday Live and Call Collymore after all the full-times had been wrapped up I think - usually they have a break every 15 minutes or so during a normal Saturday afternoon show, so I guess they must have felt it was worth having less adverts between 4-6pm when they would be competing for listeners with other stations.
Have to disagree re Courtney who I think is the most unreliable of the Talksport reporters, and it is unthinkable to suggest he does a commentary. I often listen to him as a Toon fan and his identification of players apart from the goalscorer is non-existent. Goals never get an adequate description. He seems to have replays to rely on at Newcastle and Sunderland and when he goes elsewhere he flounders.
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Old 02-06-2013, 20:02
The Difference
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Saturday 1st June - Talk Radio Europe and Global Radio Networks (Costa Del Sol)

Kenny Jones presented La Liga Saturday

La Liga
Barcelona v Malaga - Paul Breen-Turner and Kenny Jones (7pm CET commentary)

I was surprised to read Toon Geordie's criticism of Graham Courtney (especially after all this time since I posted that message!). I certainly wouldn't agree with his appraisal of him at all. As for Graham's suitability to commentary, he commentated on Newcastle games for Metro FM for a number of years so he has experience in this role. I'd like to hear him commentating again next season. Out of interest, which of the talkSPORT regular reporters do you feel would be better suited to working as a commentator should they promote someone from within to that role (as they have with Andrew McKenna for the British & Irish Lions tour in the rugby)?
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Old 02-06-2013, 20:08
The Difference
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Sunday 2nd June - talkSPORT

Danny Kelly presenting Kick Off: International Special

International Friendlies
Brazil v England - Sam Matterface and Ray Parlour (8pm commentary)
Republic of Ireland v Georgia - David Brady

Cricket: Second One-Day International
England v New Zealand - Jack Bannister
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Old 02-06-2013, 20:09
bwfcol
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Radio 5 have Ian Dennis & Danny MIlls in Brazil. I sense, given certain Tweets that TS are off tube for this one.
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Old 02-06-2013, 20:42
bwfcol
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John Murray is also there for 5Live as commentator number 2.

The last England game without one of Green or Ingham? It's probably recent but there can't be many!
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Old 02-06-2013, 20:46
Paul_Crawford
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Alan green stated in his belfast telegraph blog, that he was not going to commentate on the Brazil match, its a shame, Greeny is king, i asked this question in another thread, but worth posting it here, what has happend to Lawro? he never seems to do any big games anymore.
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Old 02-06-2013, 20:50
wns_195
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Tonight proves hosting programmes from the studio works. No need for more than one box at Wembley to be used, or for more than one summariser to be there.
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Old 02-06-2013, 20:51
The Difference
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I sense, given certain Tweets that TS are off tube for this one.
Yes, surely if Sam and Ray were there they'd have tweeted some snaps from Brazil. You can hardly blame them for this though, if ever there was a commentary game that talkSPORT was going to off-tube it was this one, even before you consider their commitments in Hong Kong and Australia for the British & Irish Lions tour.

I'm sure Steve Williams or Shaun_D will give you a comprehensive answer, but I remember an early season England international at Wembley Stadium within the last three or four years that John Murray and Simon Brotherton (I think) commentated on for Radio 5 Live. So this has happened before, relatively recently.
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Old 02-06-2013, 20:53
shaun_d
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John Murray is also there for 5Live as commentator number 2.

The last England game without one of Green or Ingham? It's probably recent but there can't be many!
Fletcher + Murray did the August friendly at the start of the season.

Ian Payne presenting tonight alongside Jimmy Armfield. Good to hear Jimmy on an England match.
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Old 02-06-2013, 20:56
The Difference
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I'm sure Steve Williams or Shaun_D will give you a comprehensive answer, but I remember an early season England international at Wembley Stadium within the last three or four years that John Murray and Simon Brotherton (I think) commentated on for Radio 5 Live. So this has happened before, relatively recently.
Fletcher + Murray did the August friendly at the start of the season.
I was close! I knew you were going to come through and clarify this one. Would you know if I am thinking of another recent-ish England international that Brotherton covered for 5 Live in the absence of Green and Ingham?
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Old 02-06-2013, 21:30
swansea steve
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Ian Denis made a point of mentioning during the first half that 5Live were the only radio station commentating from the stadium tonight. bit of a cheap shot given the relative finances of the 2 stations although it can be argued that for listeners who feel strongly about commentary from inside the stadium then they should differentiate their coverage from that of TS. I only heard it mentioned once so it wasn't like some previous international tournaments where the 5Live boys have gone on and on about it.
can't agree re presenting from the stadium. obviously sending a presenter out for this friendly would have been crazy
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Old 02-06-2013, 21:43
IanFergus
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Ian Denis made a point of mentioning during the first half that 5Live were the only radio station commentating from the stadium tonight. bit of a cheap shot given the relative finances of the 2 stations although it can be argued that for listeners who feel strongly about commentary from inside the stadium then they should differentiate their coverage from that of TS. I only heard it mentioned once so it wasn't like some previous international tournaments where the 5Live boys have gone on and on about it.
can't agree re presenting from the stadium. obviously sending a presenter out for this friendly would have been crazy
Whilst I agree re-presenters, there is a certain cachet about commentating from the location (and thus being available for interviews) compared with sitting in front of a monitor commentating. That's probably one of the reasons I prefer Five Live to talk SPORT.
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Old 02-06-2013, 21:53
shaun_d
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I was close! I knew you were going to come through and clarify this one. Would you know if I am thinking of another recent-ish England international that Brotherton covered for 5 Live in the absence of Green and Ingham?
Have searched the archives for England matches without both Green and Ingham and found that Brotherton + Murray did Holland v England in August '09.

Later that season Dennis + Murray did Brazil v England (in Dubai wasn't it?)

Murray + Fletcher did the August friendly in 10-11 (v Hungary) and this season (v Italy).
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Old 02-06-2013, 21:55
swansea steve
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Whilst I agree re-presenters, there is a certain cachet about commentating from the location (and thus being available for interviews) compared with sitting in front of a monitor commentating. That's probably one of the reasons I prefer Five Live to talk SPORT.
the end of my last post got cut off...
I see what your saying about the commentary from the stadium-- though no one bats an eyelid when sky and ESPN do it for European football.
on tonights game, I do like Ian Dennis as a commentator-- shame we don't here more of him.
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Old 02-06-2013, 22:10
Readingfan
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Great to hear Jimmy Armfield tonight. I hope the BBC make as much as they can of him for as long as they can.
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Old 02-06-2013, 22:36
IanFergus
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the end of my last post got cut off...
I see what your saying about the commentary from the stadium-- though no one bats an eyelid when sky and ESPN do it for European football.
on tonights game, I do like Ian Dennis as a commentator-- shame we don't here more of him.
But for the big matches (e.g. El Classico), Sky send the commentators to the stadium. I suppose talkSPORT didn't bother because the match was on free-to-ait tv.
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Old 02-06-2013, 22:42
swansea steve
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But for the big matches (e.g. El Classico), Sky send the commentators to the stadium. I suppose talkSPORT didn't bother because the match was on free-to-ait tv.
and, in the grand scheme of things this was only a friendly. now, if TS off-tubed an England world cup game for example then I'd be leading the criticism...
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Old 02-06-2013, 23:05
toon geordie
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Saturday 1st June - Talk Radio Europe and Global Radio Networks (Costa Del Sol)

Kenny Jones presented La Liga Saturday

La Liga
Barcelona v Malaga - Paul Breen-Turner and Kenny Jones (7pm CET commentary)

I was surprised to read Toon Geordie's criticism of Graham Courtney (especially after all this time since I posted that message!). I certainly wouldn't agree with his appraisal of him at all. As for Graham's suitability to commentary, he commentated on Newcastle games for Metro FM for a number of years so he has experience in this role. I'd like to hear him commentating again next season. Out of interest, which of the talkSPORT regular reporters do you feel would be better suited to working as a commentator should they promote someone from within to that role (as they have with Andrew McKenna for the British & Irish Lions tour in the rugby)?
I respect your opinion The Difference and maybe I am being over-critical of Graham Courtney who has a big fan in Harry Redknapp who loves his voice. I also believe Graham Courtney gives good appraisals of the North East clubs when contributing to the Alan Brazil show in the mornings.I suppose I have listened intently to his reports for some years now being a Toon fan which has maybe made me more focused on his reports than anyone else's. However, I stand by my opinion, I just think his reports lack description and are unconvincing. Re his Metro commentaries, they must have been in the early 1990s as he was the NUFC press officer for Kevin Keegan.
Re your question about commentators from within Talksport, I would like to see Tony Incenzo given a chance. He has covered some high profile games this season in the Premier League and is fluent, descriptive and accurate. I think you mentioned John Temple as being under-rated and I like him too but apart from one Newcastle game I cant remember him doing a Premier League game, so he seems to be an unlikely choice. You may know if they have done commentaries but I dont think so.
I thought Talksport's coverage of the final days of the Championship and Premier League were generally very good and I agree Graham Lloyd did well, though generally I feel his references to nicknames are a bit schoolboyish and he regularly hesitates so he is not among my favourites.
Talksport brought in one or two new reporters towards the end of last season who seemed a bit below the station's normal level, though Naz Premji impressed.
As I have said before, what makes the station so much better than 5 Live for me on match days is Adrian Durham, whose depth of football knowledge far surpasses any other football media presenter.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree re Graham Courtney but it's all about opinions and we both seem to like Talksport so we are on the same side!
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:55
The Difference
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can't agree re presenting from the stadium. obviously sending a presenter out for this friendly would have been crazy
I don't want to speak on his behalf but I think the point wns_195 was trying to make was that for your usual England home game, Radio 5 Live could save costs by having their presentation done from the studio rather than from the press box at Wembley Stadium as is the current norm, seeing as tonight's arrangement worked out fine.

Personally, I would have to disagree with him - I think it's much of a muchness expenditure wise. Considering that the BBC no longer hold an exclusive deal over The FA's national radio rights, they are probably paying a bit less for access to these games than they did during the last rights cycle, so if they want to plough the money they've saved into sending a presenter, pundit and an extra reporter to Wembley for England matches then that's fine by me.

Have searched the archives for England matches without both Green and Ingham and found that Brotherton + Murray did Holland v England in August '09.

Later that season Dennis + Murray did Brazil v England (in Dubai wasn't it?)

Murray + Fletcher did the August friendly in 10-11 (v Hungary) and this season (v Italy).
Thanks very much for that Shaun - the Netherlands v England friendly in August 2009 was the game I was thinking of.

I suppose talkSPORT didn't bother because the match was on free-to-ait tv.
The reason will almost certainly be because it was a one-off match played halfway around the world and it would have cost an awful lot for them to fork out on airfares, accommodation etc just to have a team out there for a couple of days. Sending Sam, Ray and a producer out to Brazil will have cost the station far more than it would be have provided them in return, with it also coming at a time when talkSPORT are particularly stretched given that they are sending a team of around a dozen people out to Australia to cover the British & Irish Lions tour over a six-week period. I am sure they would have liked to have been on-site last night, but I can see the obvious financial reasons as to why it made more sense to cover this particular game off-tube.

Also, I think you are being a bit misleading in your earlier message. It is very rare these days for talkSPORT to cover commentary matches off-tube, especially now that Richard Keys and Andy Gray have been on-site for them at most of the Champions League games played in mainland Europe they have covered during the last two seasons. Occasions like last night are very much the exception rather than the rule - these days they only really cover one-off games like last night's off-tube, along with less attractive group games (the kind that no other commercial radio station in the world outside of those in the nations of the teams involved in the games in question) from football and Rugby World Cups and European Championships. These relatively few occasions do not detract from talkSPORT's live sports coverage on a wider basis in my honest opinion.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:13
swansea steve
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I don't want to speak on his behalf but I think the point wns_195 was trying to make was that for your usual England home game, Radio 5 Live could save costs by having their presentation done from the studio rather than from the press box at Wembley Stadium as is the current norm, seeing as tonight's arrangement worked out fine.

Personally, I would have to disagree with him - I think it's much of a muchness expenditure wise. Considering that the BBC no longer hold an exclusive deal over The FA's national radio rights, they are probably paying a bit less for access to these games than they did during the last rights cycle, so if they want to plough the money they've saved into sending a presenter, pundit and an extra reporter to Wembley for England matches then that's fine by me.



Thanks very much for that Shaun - the Netherlands v England friendly in August 2009 was the game I was thinking of.



The reason will almost certainly be because it was a one-off match played halfway around the world and it would have cost an awful lot for them to fork out on airfares, accommodation etc just to have a team out there for a couple of days. Sending Sam, Ray and a producer out to Brazil will have cost the station far more than it would be have provided them in return, with it also coming at a time when talkSPORT are particularly stretched given that they are sending a team of around a dozen people out to Australia to cover the British & Irish Lions tour over a six-week period. I am sure they would have liked to have been on-site last night, but I can see the obvious financial reasons as to why it made more sense to cover this particular game off-tube.

Also, I think you are being a bit misleading in your earlier message. It is very rare these days for talkSPORT to cover commentary matches off-tube, especially now that Richard Keys and Andy Gray have been on-site for them at most of the Champions League games played in mainland Europe they have covered during the last two seasons. Occasions like last night are very much the exception rather than the rule - these days they only really cover one-off games like last night's off-tube, along with less attractive group games (the kind that no other commercial radio station in the world outside of those in the nations of the teams involved in the games in question) from football and Rugby World Cups and European Championships. These relatively few occasions do not detract from talkSPORT's live sports coverage on a wider basis in my honest opinion.
Hi Difference. as I mentioned in my later post, for some reason, the end of the post you quoted got cut off so my point wasn't made fully. I was going to post pretty much the same as you-- while sending a presenter/extra pundit to yesterdays match would have been a colossal waste of money, having some extra people at Wembley surely adds a negligible extra expense.
I'll be interested to know if 5Live can justify the usual 2 presenters going out to the world cup next year. Last year they had Pugatch and Chapman at the euros but that was a lot closer to home.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:23
The Difference
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I respect your opinion The Difference and maybe I am being over-critical of Graham Courtney who has a big fan in Harry Redknapp who loves his voice. I also believe Graham Courtney gives good appraisals of the North East clubs when contributing to the Alan Brazil show in the mornings.I suppose I have listened intently to his reports for some years now being a Toon fan which has maybe made me more focused on his reports than anyone else's. However, I stand by my opinion, I just think his reports lack description and are unconvincing.
Good to hear that you took my response in the spirit it was intended. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on Graham Courtney - what I like about him is not just that he has a distinctive radio voice (as Harry Redknapp said as much in that infamous interview from last season) but he has a strong delivery for exciting passages of play, his voice and manner audibly changes when the ball is around the goalmouth and he is well capable of stringing together a lot of information in a short space of time.

I've never heard him commentate before although I know he did cover Newcastle and later Middlesbrough games for Metro and then TFM prior to becoming Newcastle's press officer in the mid 1990s and, more than ever after the big games he reported on at the end of the season, I'd be really keen to hear how he'd sound over the course of 90 minutes these days.

Re your question about commentators from within Talksport, I would like to see Tony Incenzo given a chance. He has covered some high profile games this season in the Premier League and is fluent, descriptive and accurate. I think you mentioned John Temple as being under-rated and I like him too but apart from one Newcastle game I cant remember him doing a Premier League game, so he seems to be an unlikely choice. You may know if they have done commentaries but I dont think so.
I thought Talksport's coverage of the final days of the Championship and Premier League were generally very good and I agree Graham Lloyd did well, though generally I feel his references to nicknames are a bit schoolboyish and he regularly hesitates so he is not among my favourites.
Talksport brought in one or two new reporters towards the end of last season who seemed a bit below the station's normal level, though Naz Premji impressed.
As I have said before, what makes the station so much better than 5 Live for me on match days is Adrian Durham, whose depth of football knowledge far surpasses any other football media presenter.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree re Graham Courtney but it's all about opinions and we both seem to like Talksport so we are on the same side!
The reason that John Temple doesn't get as many Premier League games to cover as certain other reporters do will be based on his geography more than anything else, he typically covers games in Yorkshire and Humberside, areas which don't have any Premier League teams at the moment, although surely he'll get the chance to cover his fair share of Hull's top flight matches next season. The same is true of a few other reporters - Geoff Peters, who I rate very highly as their Championship correspondent, is the same given the state of East Midlands football these days (although hopefully that will change in the next few years with Derby, Leicester and Forest all looking like they are moving in a positive direction).

Geoff would also be high on my list of talkSPORT reporters that I would like to hear given a chance to commentate again, he has had a few opportunities in the past (during their last FA Cup contract over a decade a go and during the 2006 World Cup) where I thought he did well and I've been impressed by what I've heard of his commentary work for UEFA.com. Dave Rowe's description of the late drama in the Watford v Leicester play-off game was pretty breathless and I know he's got a track record in commentary with The Wolf and Signal 2, so I wouldn't mind hearing him getting a go too. Simon Humphreys is another commentator at local level with a very distinctive voice and of course I'd like to hear a bit more of mainstays Nigel Pearson and Ian Danter, who have received less frequent opportunities in recent seasons but IMO are just as good if not better than some of the newer commentators.

Tony Incenzo is an interesting one. His reports are always well constructed and full of information but he's one of the few members of the talkSPORT reporting team who does not have any commentary experience to my knowledge - prior to joining the Matchday Live team he was only ever a reporter on LBC and Capital Gold in London I think. Grahame Lloyd is another one of those reporters who puts together really descriptive and thoughtful pre- and post-match pieces. I can see what you are getting at with the schoolboyish comment but personally I like the element of whimsical humour he adds to his updates, it is something different but at the same time he is not to in-your-face with it. As with Roger Hughes, I have heard him commentating for BBC Radio Wales on a fair few occasions and wouldn't mind hearing either of them getting the chance to do a full game on a UK-wide basis.

I think I may have tipped about half a dozen of talkSPORT's regular reporters as potential national radio commentators - it just goes to show what strength in depth I think the Matchday Live team has. It's good to read the thoughts of someone who is of a similar opinion to me generally and can put their thoughts into words well.
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Old 03-06-2013, 18:29
bwfcol
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I was clearly way off with my Green/Ingham-less England games

With Fletcher's departure, I think we will hear more of Ian Dennis, we're seeing the phasing out of 2 commentators in Green/Ingham.

McManara, Murray and Dennis will be core to 5Live's football coverage with additional support from Alistair Bruce-Ball and a few others I imagine.
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