[xmodz10]

Is there, anything the next gen consoles will have that will make them better, i cant.

ps3 is already 3d compatible, so what can they actually improve on.

they havent made a better bigger storage media then blu ray at the moment.

[chopoff]

Well, most games don't run at 1080p, and if they do they most likely won't be 60 fps.

So next-gen we'll see 60 fps and 1080p as standard.

We probably will also see the introduction of 2160p, which allows for 3D at 1080p, though I've not seen any TVs that support this yet.

We'll see lots more effects going on that add to the realism, if you take a look at Watch Dogs, the Unreal and Square Enix tech demos from E3 you'll see graphics which don't look a massive leap from the best graphical games we have now in terms of modelling but if you look beyond that at the lighting, the smoothness, the particle effects - and more importantly the amount of unique effects and assets, you'll see why the next-gen will offer up a good improvement.

For example rather than GTA having people milling about following one of a few animation styles everyone could walk in a unique way.

Really though, if you think about it the current-gen when it was next-gen didn't offer anything other than vastly superior graphics. Kinect and Move didn't come later.

Obviously the Wii had its own thing, but I don't really consider it a core gaming console.

[jjesso123]

Many things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdGxUyGc1tg

As shown there improved lighting, more effects per scene and so much more.

That is totally untrue no research done. BD XL was released last year 128GB. There is also many other formats, one by TDK that is of 1TB size.

Chopoff I really don't see 60FPS standard. Simply because in most cases it's a design choice. Developers have a choice of taking use of more power and go 30FPS. Allowing them use more effects and so fourth. or using 60FPS and use less effects and have a more smooth game that does not look as good. Some games simply don't benefit from 60FPS enough to even consider using higher FPS and drain resources.

[2Dshmuplover]

Originally Posted by chopoff

So next-gen we'll see 60 fps and 1080p as standard.

We probably will also see the introduction of 2160p, which allows for 3D at 1080p, though I've not seen any TVs that support this yet.

I wouldn't of said this last year but I wouldn't get your hopes up. I see 30fps being the standard for next gen too with the odd exception of 60 fps.

The 2160p thing is 100% not going to happen. 1080p if we are lucky. We're not even using our 1080p sets to their fullest ability yet! I don't know a single person who owns a HDTV that can display a resolution higher than 1080p. It's not going to happen.

[Gormond]

Originally Posted by 2Dshmuplover

I wouldn't of said this last year but I wouldn't get your hopes up. I see 30fps being the standard for next gen too with the odd exception of 60 fps.

The 2160p thing is 100% not going to happen. 1080p if we are lucky. We're not even using our 1080p sets to their fullest ability yet! I don't know a single person who owns a HDTV that can display a resolution higher than 1080p. It's not going to happen.

If I were to bet I think sony will make 1080p 60fps a standard on the PS4 in 2D (30fps in 3D) it's so easily doable now even with a £100 - £200 graphics card. (and I doubt we will see a PS4 before 2014).

[CD93]

Is there, anything the next gen consoles will have that will make them better, i cant.

Unless all technological advancement has now come to an end, and Humanity is doomed, of course next gen consoles will be improvements.

[The_One]

3x HDMI outputs for 3 screens:
game expanded across all 3
or tri- co-op mode, no longer needing the use of a split screen for co-op.

Better graphical eye candy.

N-spec WiFi instead of G spec. For faster internet wireless speeds.

Better cooling technology.

[CSI-uk]

Its ironic that in this thread we're talking about next gen providing 1080p@60fps, and in a certain other thread we're talking about Cloud gaming that struggles with 720p@30fps.

Both have there supporters, but for the life of me I can't figure out why!

[Doomy]

Its looking more and more likely that PS4 will be Cloud gaming compatible at the very least, if not Cloud gaming ONLY. This in theory means a very cheap box that you will never have to upgrade (at least until new Wifi, Display or Interface devices come out)

Cheap box (doesnt do much except stream in 1080p/3d)
Pay per hour played rather than initial game purchase
As new games need more power, they just upgrade the servers and charge more per hour

For those on the cutting edge, this will be brilliant. For cheap buggers like me who normally buy GOTY etc, it will be horrid.

[CSI-uk]

Originally Posted by Doomy

Its looking more and more likely that PS4 will be Cloud gaming compatible at the very least, if not Cloud gaming ONLY. This in theory means a very cheap box that you will never have to upgrade (at least until new Wifi, Display or Interface devices come out)

Cheap box (doesnt do much except stream in 1080p/3d)
Pay per hour played rather than initial game purchase
As new games need more power, they just upgrade the servers and charge more per hour

For those on the cutting edge, this will be brilliant. For cheap buggers like me who normally buy GOTY etc, it will be horrid.

But that doesn't make any sense, what about everything the PS3 can do, are Sony just going drop all that? What about peoples blu-ray collection? Media files... music, films... everything that people use their PS3 for that isn't game related?

The PS4 will be a PS3 but better, otherwise MS will be having the biggest pay day in history.

[Doomy]

Originally Posted by CSI-uk

But that doesn't make any sense, what about everything the PS3 can do, are Sony just going drop all that? What about peoples blu-ray collection? Media files... music, films... everything that people use their PS3 for that isn't game related?

The PS4 will be a PS3 but better, otherwise MS will be having the biggest pay day in history.

Yes a Cloud PS4 will have a hard drive and BR, but without the next gen hardware, it will be a £200 box, rather than a £400 box. If Sony then only get a few cents for every hour of gaming time, it will make them HUGE amounts of money, orders of magnitude more than just shifting boxes at cost.

I really hope the PS4 is a "proper" console with Cloud as an option, but I wouldn't bet my mortgage on it.

[Monkey Munch]

Originally Posted by CSI-uk

But that doesn't make any sense, what about everything the PS3 can do, are Sony just going drop all that? What about peoples blu-ray collection? Media files... music, films... everything that people use their PS3 for that isn't game related?

The PS4 will be a PS3 but better, otherwise MS will be having the biggest pay day in history.

I'll be honest as a 'Media device' the PS3 is awesome, it's what it's used most for in my house ... if they drop that and MS does everything I use my PS3 for I will have no need what so ever for the PS4

[jjesso123]

Originally Posted by Doomy

Yes a Cloud PS4 will have a hard drive and BR, but without the next gen hardware, it will be a £200 box, rather than a £400 box. If Sony then only get a few cents for every hour of gaming time, it will make them HUGE amounts of money, orders of magnitude more than just shifting boxes at cost.

I really hope the PS4 is a "proper" console with Cloud as an option, but I wouldn't bet my mortgage on it.

There is just not enough people out there, who could stream these games especially at noticeable difference from this generation. The average download speed in the UK 5MB, US 5.5MB,AU,NZ As low as 2 MB.Canada 3.4MB, France 2.2MB

Even Onlive could not manage 1080p Streams as not only are the Consumers limited by bandwidth issues It's also very hard for companies to allow mass streaming of 1080p content, with stability at the moment.

Full cloud support in a year or maybe 2 not chance It's impossible. with only a few of those countries even having targets for faster internet and most listed and not listed not having targets Try 10 most likely even 20 years when good amount countries can get decent average speeds.

[Hotbird]

Originally Posted by Doomy

Its looking more and more likely that PS4 will be Cloud gaming compatible at the very least, if not Cloud gaming ONLY. This in theory means a very cheap box that you will never have to upgrade (at least until new Wifi, Display or Interface devices come out)

Cheap box (doesnt do much except stream in 1080p/3d)
Pay per hour played rather than initial game purchase
As new games need more power, they just upgrade the servers and charge more per hour

For those on the cutting edge, this will be brilliant. For cheap buggers like me who normally buy GOTY etc, it will be horrid.

Not going to happen...

We are too close to the next generation and too far away from an internet infrastructure capable of running a cloud only console for the mainstream masses. Cloud is also an unproven technology.

[jim_uk]

Originally Posted by Hotbird

Not going to happen...

We are too close to the next generation and too far away from an internet infrastructure capable of running a cloud only console for the mainstream masses. Cloud is also an unproven technology.

Sony have just bought a cloud gaming company so it's something they want to get involved in, that said you're right about the infrastructure, maybe it will be used for older games where quality isn't such a concern?

[Hotbird]

Originally Posted by jim_uk

Sony have just bought a cloud gaming company so it's something they want to get involved in, that said you're right about the infrastructure, maybe it will be used for older games where quality isn't such a concern?

I think Sony will use PS4 to prove cloud technology works, by PS5 we could be in the position of having a cloud only console but I am sceptical about that as well.

[chopoff]

Originally Posted by 2Dshmuplover

The 2160p thing is 100% not going to happen. 1080p if we are lucky. We're not even using our 1080p sets to their fullest ability yet! I don't know a single person who owns a HDTV that can display a resolution higher than 1080p. It's not going to happen.

I totally disagree.

Don't forget - the games do not have to be able to run at 2160p from day one.

These consoles will be around for a long time, and potentially be the last set of consoles as we know them now.

Just because TV sets are not available now that support 2160p, neither is the PS4/720 available now.

When the 360 and PS3 came out most sets were 720p, 'full HD' were rarer and expensive.

Now it is the norm.

So this gen we'll have 1080p TVs the norm with 2160p the new expensive option.

Think ahead, not in the present.

[jim_uk]

Originally Posted by Hotbird

I think Sony will use PS4 to prove cloud technology works, by PS5 we could be in the position of having a cloud only console but I am sceptical about that as well.

Indeed and back content would be the ideal platform, put your PS3/2/1 disk in and the streaming starts, those without disks could pay via PSN.

Originally Posted by chopoff

I totally disagree.

Don't forget - the games do not have to be able to run at 2160p from day one.

These consoles will be around for a long time, and potentially be the last set of consoles as we know them now.

Just because TV sets are not available now that support 2160p, neither is the PS4/720 available now.

When the 360 and PS3 came out most sets were 720p, 'full HD' were rarer and expensive.

Now it is the norm.

So this gen we'll have 1080p TVs the norm with 2160p the new expensive option.

Think ahead, not in the present.

Most GPUs support 2160 and higher anyway so having the ability to output that resolution isn't really an issue, the real issue is will these things be powerful enough to do anything at that resolution? so far leaked specs suggest not.

[chopoff]

Originally Posted by jim_uk

Most GPUs support 2160 and higher anyway so having the ability to output that resolution isn't really an issue, the real issue is will these things be powerful enough to do anything at that resolution? so far leaked specs suggest not.

Really?

Look at the PS3 specs. Then transport yourself to a year before it launched.

Then ask yourself 'will these specs support 1080p?' You'd probably say no on the face of it.

Console specs are misleading, games can be heavily optimised.

[2Dshmuplover]

Originally Posted by chopoff

I totally disagree.

Don't forget - the games do not have to be able to run at 2160p from day one.

These consoles will be around for a long time, and potentially be the last set of consoles as we know them now.

Just because TV sets are not available now that support 2160p, neither is the PS4/720 available now.

When the 360 and PS3 came out most sets were 720p, 'full HD' were rarer and expensive.

Now it is the norm.

So this gen we'll have 1080p TVs the norm with 2160p the new expensive option.

Think ahead, not in the present.

But I am thinking ahead, we are NOT using 1080p sets as they should be used, everyone is upscaling. Hopefully, and it's likely that will change next gen. But the ridiculous resolutions you're talking about suck up all the system resource leaving games looking like they were made on PS2. It's not practical when the power can be put to better use and that holds true for next gen systems. If FPS and resolution was so important then we wouldn't be seeing so many sub-HD games made today with an average 25fps gameplay.

I doubt it will be easy to run 60fps and 1080p with the kind of engines we saw at E3 like Unreal Engine 4. That is the future, it's not just about resolution and framerate. There would be no need to run engines like this in anything higher than 1080p, for the average livingroom where we sit quite a few feet away from the TV, it is completely wasted to use 2160p. I highly doubt we'll see all games in 60fps, and as some else said it's not even that desirable in some genres and it destroys cinematography.

[jim_uk]

Originally Posted by chopoff

Really?

Look at the PS3 specs. Then transport yourself to a year before it launched.

Then ask yourself 'will these specs support 1080p?' You'd probably say no on the face of it.

Console specs are misleading, games can be heavily optimised.

The GPU in the PS3 is the same as the one found in PCs of the day so I knew it could output 1080p, it was also out of date, Nvidia had already released the 8xxx line by the time the PS3 hit the shelves. Being able output 1080p and being able to run games at that resolution are two very different things, why do you think most PS3 games run at 720p?

[Danger Close]

Originally Posted by Hotbird

Not going to happen...

We are too close to the next generation and too far away from an internet infrastructure capable of running a cloud only console for the mainstream masses. Cloud is also an unproven technology.

Agreed.

Until most of the worlds gamers can stream at at least 10MB there won't be cloud only systems. Maybe in another 6 or 7 years. Maybe less if the telecoms companies get a shift on.

[Hotbird]

Originally Posted by jim_uk

Indeed and back content would be the ideal platform, put your PS3/2/1 disk in and the streaming starts, those without disks could pay via PSN.

This could be a very cheap and easy way of getting large numbers of people testing out cloud gaming. If Sony launched something like this the first thing I would do is dig out an old PS2 game just to see what it was like playing from the cloud.

Originally Posted by chopoff

Really?

Look at the PS3 specs. Then transport yourself to a year before it launched.

Then ask yourself 'will these specs support 1080p?' You'd probably say no on the face of it.

1080p was one of the things we got promised, in reality PS3 and 360 suck at 1080p gaming. Only handful of games have actually managed to pull that off without faking it through upscaling.

[jim_uk]

Originally Posted by Danger Close

Agreed.

Until most of the worlds gamers can stream at at least 10MB there won't be cloud only systems. Maybe in another 6 or 7 years. Maybe less if the telecoms companies get a shift on.

It's not only the bandwidth, all those games running are going to need a hell of a lot of processing power behind them, look at Onlive, the game settings are about as low as they go.

Originally Posted by Hotbird

This could be a very cheap and easy way of getting large numbers of people testing out cloud gaming. If Sony launched something like this the first thing I would do is dig out an old PS2 game just to see what it was like playing from the cloud.



1080p was one of the things we got promised, in reality PS3 and 360 suck at 1080p gaming. Only handful of games have actually managed to pull that off without faking it through upscaling.

There's are some that aren't even 720p http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

[chopoff]

Originally Posted by jim_uk

The GPU in the PS3 is the same as the one found in PCs of the day so I knew it could output 1080p, it was also out of date, Nvidia had already released the 8xxx line by the time the PS3 hit the shelves. Being able output 1080p and being able to run games at that resolution are two very different things, why do you think most PS3 games run at 720p?

Yeah, I meant have games at 1080p, not being able to output at 1080p.

Take a look at Beyond, The Last of Us.

If someone slapped that in front of you seven years ago and said this console with these specs will let you play this game you'd probably have said codswallop, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that.

So you have to not only think of what the new console would be capable of on day one, but capable of in 6-8 years time.

I'm not saying we'll see stuff like the Elemental demo running at 3D 2160p, but we'll see 2160p games of that I've no doubt.

Whilst many games are 720 or lower native, some games are not, so you can't dismiss the argument by saying not all games are bla bla when there are some that are, just not all of them.

I never said all games will be pumping out 2160p and look like you've just walked into an IMAX cinema. I said it'll introduce 2160p.