[TheBigM]

Originally Posted by Blackjack Davy

Heres an idea, how about if all that was replaced by a simple button in the left hand corner, we could label it say, "Start" and that would make another menu popup that we could simply select any of that with a single click.

Well, how about it, does that sound like a good idea or not?!

So you would rather have fewer ways of doing these things and have only slower ways of doing things? If you read any of the options, none of them are any slower than the method in Windows 7.

In any case you still have it with Windows 8. You move the mouse to the same corner, you can still do a click. The only difference being instead of a menu taking up the left of the screen, you get a full-screen menu.

[TheBigM]

Originally Posted by noise747

Yeah, but it is not there in the face like on windows 7. i thought we got past this using Keys thing.

i use keyboard short cuts with vegas, but to be honest I don't really want to memorise more short cuts.


the other problem is installing drivers, it can't be done via the metro screen, then what about the control panel? a lot of hassle to find what you want.


Just Microsoft being Microsoft and doing what they hell they want and not giving a crap about people.

they don't change, i thought they may have, but it seems like they have not.

I was thinking of jumping ship before I built this computer, now I wish I did.

I know of two ways of installing drivers: a) you just plug your hardware in and Windows does everything for you or b) you run an executable that you downloaded from the net. Why do you need control panel install a driver?

I for one like having more keyboard control of a computer, especially when I am doing typing or modelling, I can operate Windows without having to move my hands off the keyboard onto the mouse. In any case, I demonstrated everything can be done easily with the mouse.

This concept that keyboard control is old hat is a strange sort of view. You should simply use whichever input method you prefer to do a certain task. No support has as good wide-ranging support for input methods as Windows 8 with support for mouse, keyboard, touch and pen.

What do you mean about control panel? Control panel looks pretty much the same it did in Win7, not much has changed there.

[neo_wales]

Originally Posted by noise747

Yeah, but it is not there in the face like on windows 7. i thought we got past this using Keys thing.

i use keyboard short cuts with vegas, but to be honest I don't really want to memorise more short cuts.


the other problem is installing drivers, it can't be done via the metro screen, then what about the control panel? a lot of hassle to find what you want.


Just Microsoft being Microsoft and doing what they hell they want and not giving a crap about people.

they don't change, i thought they may have, but it seems like they have not.

I was thinking of jumping ship before I built this computer, now I wish I did.

Your going back to your old ways and talking tosh again. Do you think Microsoft don't do research before a major launch? Do you think they really don't care about their customers bearing in mind no customers = no profit.

We all know you don't like 8, you've told us enough times on pretty much every thread that mentions 8.

[alanwarwic]

More likely Microsoft are late to the 'tablet party' and are just doing their best to 'get an invite'.
Their main customer's are as much business ones. I think in a few ways we have had a 'decent ride' alongside that solid foundation.

I don't quite get this missing button thing for x86 but with it being a minor coding task, I'm quite certain someone will release free code to put it back.

[flashgordon1952]

i have both XP on a VIAO PC and windows 7 pro (stripped down version of 7) on this refurbished dell optiplex. i love my XP but find some software currently on the market (download.com) does not work on windows 7 pro at all.
Does anyone else have this problem

[alanwarwic]

Anyone know whether they are keeping and promoting Windows 7, and if 8 is also to be aimed at business?

Obviously, when it comes to business systems, new innovations can cost both time and money.

[noise747]

Originally Posted by flashgordon1952

i have both XP on a VIAO PC and windows 7 pro (stripped down version of 7) on this refurbished dell optiplex. i love my XP but find some software currently on the market (download.com) does not work on windows 7 pro at all.
Does anyone else have this problem

Download.com don't work or software from it?
I don't have any problems with stuff not working with 7, it been around long enough now.

windows 8 people may have problems, I noticed my Vegas had a few problems when I tried it out.

[noise747]

Originally Posted by neo_wales

Your going back to your old ways and talking tosh again. Do you think Microsoft don't do research before a major launch? Do you think they really don't care about their customers bearing in mind no customers = no profit.

We all know you don't like 8, you've told us enough times on pretty much every thread that mentions 8.

I don't think Ms do research apart from chuck out their Betas for the public to try and it don't seem like as many people have used windows 8 in beta as they did for windows 7.

Out of all the people I know that is interested in new OS,, there was only one who tried windows 8, now bearing in mind that when windows 7 came out, 6 of us tried it and most of us was using it as our main OS. One person even used it for his business, that shows how much faith he had in 7.
These people have tried it on my laptop mind you and gave it a thumbs down.

True, that was only a few people, but it is not even in the news as much as windows 7 was.


it have not got the excitement as windows 7, if you call it exciting, windows 8 have been classed as the Os for touch screen.

It not that I don't like windows 8 as such, the desktop is fast and it seems to run a little bit smother than 7, but the metro interface feels like it been bolted on. I think MS wanted to get into the touch screen market and don't care how they do it and who they annoy.

I am sure that Windows 8 will be pushed by system builders and shopping channels selling their computers, but will many people buy it as a update? I can't see it. I know you will, but the majority won't.

i just hope they keep 7 on sale for a while as I may need another copy for another machine, if not then it will be torrent time.

[TheBigM]

Originally Posted by noise747

I don't think Ms do research apart from chuck out their Betas for the public to try and it don't seem like as many people have used windows 8 in beta as they did for windows 7.

i just hope they keep 7 on sale for a while as I may need another copy for another machine, if not then it will be torrent time.

So just more ridiculous statements. Of course MS do a huge amount of research into everything. If you read their "Building 8" blogs you would be able to see that. As well as getting developer and IT Pro feedback through trade shows, conferences and many other channels, they get feedback from doing the betas, they run focus groups and they get a huge wealth of data on how people use Windows from their telemetry from the windows customer experience improvement program that most people accept when setting up their PCs.

It is for example, how they know that increasing the average person just uses the superbar with pinned applications in Windows 7 and start menu usage has been declining for several years.

Oh and if you can't buy what you want, you're just going to steal it via torrents? Nice, we know what box to pigeonhole you in then. Why not just buy a copy now since you never want to move to 8 anyway.

[noise747]

Originally Posted by TheBigM

So just more ridiculous statements. Of course MS do a huge amount of research into everything. If you read their "Building 8" blogs you would be able to see that. As well as getting developer and IT Pro feedback through trade shows, conferences and many other channels, they get feedback from doing the betas, they run focus groups and they get a huge wealth of data on how people use Windows from their telemetry from the windows customer experience improvement program that most people accept when setting up their PCs.

Maybe then they should take notice and realise that not everyone like the Metro screen, but they are going ahead with it anyway. Give people the choice, it can't be that difficult for them to do that.

We all know the reason why, because they want us all to connect our computers to their cloud service as soon as it is switch on, that is why they want a Metro screen, not just for touch screens, but so we will use their hotmail, online office and what ever else they offer.

Worse than google.

and what customer experience improvement program is that? Never been asked and never seen anything about it.

They did have something on windows 8 but that is beta so I expect it on that.

It is for example, how they know that increasing the average person just uses the superbar with pinned applications in Windows 7 and start menu usage has been declining for several years.

So tell me how many applications can you pin on the so called super bar before it becomes a mess?

On mine i got Vegas, Libra office word, Photoshop, My browser, my email client, sound forge, a calculator, DVD architect, quark express, Nero, sure thing and some documents for quick access. everything else is on the start menu.

Oh and if you can't buy what you want, you're just going to steal it via torrents? Nice, we know what box to pigeonhole you in then. Why not just buy a copy now since you never want to move to 8 anyway.

if it is not available in the shops then how else can I get it? I have not got the money at the moment to spend out on windows 7. i suppose i could always put my retail version of Xp on the machine, for what it will be use for it will be fine.

MS moves the goal posts what can you do?

TBH, i can't see MS stop producing windows 7 for a while and even when they do, it will still be available for a while.
I can still buy new unused versions of XP.

[Daedroth]

Originally Posted by noise747

Maybe then they should take notice and realise that not everyone like the Metro screen, but they are going ahead with it anyway. Give people the choice, it can't be that difficult for them to do that.

We all know the reason why, because they want us all to connect our computers to their cloud service as soon as it is switch on, that is why they want a Metro screen, not just for touch screens, but so we will use their hotmail, online office and what ever else they offer.

Worse than google.

You say that as a self-confessed Apple fanboy, yet how much 'choice' does Apple give you in their operating systems? Sweet f**k all. You seem to think this is the first time Microsoft have done this sort of thing? Not remember the Office ribbon? Everyone hated that. Not remember the re-designed Vista start menu? Everyone hated that, yet now they love a near identical one on 7.

Do you really blame Microsoft for exploiting their market dominance? Every company do the same, Google, Apple, etc.

Do you really think a massive company like Microsoft don't do their research, with an R&D department as large as theirs? They will be going towards their future development plans, and Windows 8 has been designed to go in that direction.

[alanwarwic]

Everyone liked XP so there was knee jerk reaction to everything on Vista.

Everyone likes Windows 7................

[alan1302]

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

Everyone liked XP so there was knee jerk reaction to everything on Vista.

Everyone likes Windows 7................

Not everyone likes them...and I remember liking Vista to begin with as it was a nice change

[noise747]

Originally Posted by Daedroth

You say that as a self-confessed Apple fanboy, yet how much 'choice' does Apple give you in their operating systems? Sweet f**k all.

I have never owned a Apple product in my life and you got to remember Apple is different, they control the hardware and the software.

i know Microsoft wants to control the hardware, which is why they are going to use Secure boot to make sure people don't use another OS on their tablets and maybe on computers with windows already installed, but thankfully I still got the choice as I build my own machines.

I must admit mind you that I am pretty close to jumping to apple, their Os is a bit more stable than Microsoft.

You seem to think this is the first time Microsoft have done this sort of thing? Not remember the Office ribbon? Everyone hated that.

And a lot of people still hate it, i know many people who have not updated to the new office, myself included.
My reason is because I don't see the point in paying MS large amount of money for something I can get for free which does the job.

but I even know people in business who still uses a pre ribbon office, including the company that I work for and they are pretty large.

Not remember the re-designed Vista start menu? Everyone hated that, yet now they love a near identical one on 7.

i had nothing against the vista menu, after all it was not that much different to Xp, windows 7 was a good idea and closely followed the way Apple dock works.
i have only know one person who don't like windows 7 start menu and task bar, sorry two, but one of them hates Microsoft.

Do you really blame Microsoft for exploiting their market dominance? Every company do the same, Google, Apple, etc.

i don't blame them, I blame the people for allowing it or more accurate the government's of different countries. you Do know that Ms can now hold us all to ransom, since most of the computers in the world and that include government computers and servers are run by a MS OS.

Do you really think a massive company like Microsoft don't do their research, with an R&D department as large as theirs? They will be going towards their future development plans, and Windows 8 has been designed to go in that direction.

The problem with large companies, they get so large that they lose their way and think they can do what they like, just look at companies like Sky and Bt for that matter. then it people who allows them to do it and companies are jumping with joy that they can manipulate people with ease.

Sadly that is the same for all larger companies, no matter what they produce.

[alanwarwic]

Originally Posted by noise747

The problem with large companies, they get so large that they lose their way and think they can do what they like..

I think it has been the opposite. They became too scared to move with the times.
They now realise that their traditional income is at risk so they need to adapt to accommodate newer simpler devices.


Consider that Microsoft currently earn $50 profit per PC device yet many tablets cost less than $50 to make.
Could they end up moving the way of IBM?

[Batwing]

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

I think it has been the opposite. They became too scared to move with the times.
They now realise that their traditional income is at risk so they need to adapt to accommodate newer simpler devices.


Consider that Microsoft currently earn $50 profit per PC device yet many tablets cost less than $50 to make.
Could they end up moving the way of IBM?

Wow, for once I agree with an entire post from alanwarwic.

Things is though, IBM had a lot more things to fall back on. I mean look at them today, they just past their 100th birthday and they are one of the most respected companies in the industry by having the best R&D and doing some really amazing and cutting edge stuff.

Think about this for a moment, IBM for 19 straight years, has filed more patents than any other company. That's amazing.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...t-applications

IBM is arguably a better company today than it was in the past. I would love to see Apple doing the same when it comes to R&D as IBM does.

I think Microsoft, if they handle Windows 8 properly, will be successful in toppling Android's chances in the tablet market and maybe even pushing them out of the phone business. Really.

Microsoft simply needs to properly leverage their market strength in the desktops/laptops and businesses to portable devices. Google has none of that. And if they do it right I predict you will see what we have had for many years, Microsoft dominating the biggest share and Apple dominating a smaller but more profitable share.

I think it's a matter of time before Google falls. Most of their profits are based on advertising for web sites and services that are not outside the realm of being duplicated.

[Batwing]

Originally Posted by Daedroth

You say that as a self-confessed Apple fanboy, yet how much 'choice' does Apple give you in their operating systems? Sweet f**k all.

Please make a distinction between iOS and OS X because while users can debate openness in the former in the case of the later there are no restrictions at all.

[Daedroth]

Originally Posted by Batwing

Please make a distinction between iOS and OS X because while users can debate openness in the former in the case of the later there are no restrictions at all.

So you're saying it's just as customisable as Windows?

[Batwing]

Originally Posted by Daedroth

So you're saying it's just as customisable as Windows?

OS X is. While the average user may not get the many color options with themes, for example, immediately available to them nothing is preventing third party software from being used to do similar things and nothing is preventing the user from tinkering in Terminal to do whatever they want with their Mac.

Apple allows and supports the installation of Windows on their computers. You can't get much more open than that.

[Daedroth]

Originally Posted by Batwing

OS X is. While the average user may not get the many color options with themes, for example, immediately available to them nothing is preventing third party software from being used to do similar things and nothing is preventing the user from tinkering in Terminal to do whatever they want with their Mac.

Apple allows and supports the installation of Windows on their computers. You can't get much more open than that.

I'm not up on my OS X knowledge, so thanks for clearer than that. But I don't think Apple can stop anyone from installing Windows on their Apple computer.

[Batwing]

Originally Posted by Daedroth

I'm not up on my OS X knowledge, so thanks for clearer than that. But I don't think Apple can stop anyone from installing Windows on their Apple computer.

Why are you saying that? Apple is the one that came out with support for you to do just that. Without their support it would be very difficult to run Windows on their computers.

[Daedroth]

Originally Posted by Batwing

Why are you saying that? Apple is the one that came out with support for you to do just that. Without their support it would be very difficult to run Windows on their computers.

You do know Apple hardware is the same hardware that is in a PC right? Considering they're using standard Intel processors, standard graphics chips, etc. You could format a Mac very easily and put what ever you want on it.

[emptybox]

Originally Posted by Daedroth

You do know Apple hardware is the same hardware that is in a PC right? Considering they're using standard Intel processors, standard graphics chips, etc. You could format a Mac very easily and put what ever you want on it.

But does OSX have an equivalent to the BIOS that you could get to boot from CD or USB?

[psionic]

Originally Posted by emptybox

But does OSX have an equivalent to the BIOS that you could get to boot from CD or USB?

It has EFI.

You simply keep the alt/option key pressed when you switch on and you can choose what drive to boot from (including DVD and USB etc. )

[Batwing]

Originally Posted by emptybox

But does OSX have an equivalent to the BIOS that you could get to boot from CD or USB?

You choose that option by holding down the Option key when starting.

Edit: I see psionic answered you.

It's a much better way than messing inside a bios. If you have Windows installed on your Mac that is also how you get into Windows. You will see a Mac hard drive symbol, one for Windows, and those with Lion will also see one for recovery.