[biggle2000]

Originally Posted by Schadenfreud

ETA. I've been to a couple of civil partnerships/weddings, and tbh it does feel a bit weird to me.
.

Can I why it felt weird to you?

[Schadenfreud]

Originally Posted by KarlSomething

It's not been done too much, until this is no longer an issue.

Although I disagree with the title. Some of them are idiots, sure. Others are merely deluded, misinformed, ignorant of the reality of the matter.

Going off at a slight tangent here, but this always annoys me.

Why are they any of the above? Why can't they just have a different opinion to yourself, or a different set of values?

They could say the same about you... and you'd both be wrong.

[designer84]

Originally Posted by Schadenfreud

Going off at a slight tangent here, but this always annoys me.

Why are they any of the above? Why can't they just have a different opinion to yourself, or a different set of values?

They could say the same about you... and you'd both be wrong.

In fairness the person who has the issue is technically wrong. Gay people exist and have done since the dawn of time. I's only been suppressed and frowned upon by those who seem to think it's wrong. Sadly as time has gone on, that belief has been programmed into many of us. At the end of the day people are people, regardless of sexuality, race, religion etc. Everyone SHOULD except everyone. No one is better than anyone else essentially... Well aside from those who commit vile acts like Murder or abuse etc

[Schadenfreud]

Originally Posted by biggle2000

Can I why it felt weird to you?

Sure, but I'm not sure I can give a satisfactory answer.

I've been to many weddings, engagements and the like and the vast majority (including my own) were between a male and a female. When I went to the gay weddings it just didn't feel the same. I'm not sure why, (I've deleted several sentences here trying to describe why) maybe it's because I'm straight and just don't empathize with the happy couple? I'm not really sure.

Maybe it's because a straight wedding there's an expectation of children and the continuation of the family genes?

I genuinely don't know. I will admit that I'm not pro gay, but neither am I anti gay. I just don't care.. I'll treat people equally regardless of who they are.

Sorry, I did say it might not be a good answer

[Teddybleads]

It's a very emotive issue, one that can cause normally rational people to make irrational decisions. 20 years ago two men couldn't hold hands in the street without fear of arrest. We've come a long way in a relatively short space of time, there is obviously going to be some lagging behind.

As for the semantics, personally I think it matters. Marriage is a powerful and widespread word. Giving gay people the right to use that word sends a clear signal that society values them, their love and their relationship as much as straight people.

[LifeOfBryan]

Have not straight weddings and everyone's funerals changed over the years?

Nowadays anything goes! The big fluffy white dress and that she will obey her Husband till death do they part, still goes on for those who wish it, but lots of straight people don't do any of that now. It's pix n mix what you want at weddings now.

And even more so with Funerals: A cardboard coffin painted badly by the local motorcycle club and brought to a burial ground on a side-car with rock music accompaniment is getting old hat nowadays.

Even: 'To Boldly go where no man has gone before' was changed to reflect the times and include all of the human race.

So in the short term I think that 'gay' weddings will ape 'straight' weddings, but will find their own ground given time. And sure as hell, once the gay society invent something special, I bet the straight society will 'borrow it'.

[johnnybgoode83]

People who call people idiots because of their beliefs are idiots. Now, I do not agree with the anti gay marriage people but I respect their right to hold their own beliefs and opinions and it seems like this OP needs to grow up and do the same.

[kimindex]

I think people should be able to get married without the ceremony, if they choose. Just go down to an office and sign a form. I know you can simplify it but even having to say words in front of someone with witnesses should be voluntary.

[samsung29]

[quote=Rick Ross;59263285]First off I'm a heterosexual guy and I know this has probably been done to death on this site but after a lively debate with a couple uni mates earlier I just wanted to go into 3 types of people against gay marriage.

.
Are you sure? You sound like you're still in the closet.

[LifeOfBryan]

Originally Posted by johnnybgoode83

People who call people idiots because of their beliefs are idiots. Now, I do not agree with the anti gay marriage people but I respect their right to hold their own beliefs and opinions and it seems like this OP needs to grow up and do the same.

And how far do you go with that?

Do you respect my strong belief that the world is ruled by the big blue elephant that lives in my fridge and who dictates that everyone over 36 should be put to death?

Now show me the respect that that sort of thinking demands.

[slick1two]

Originally Posted by kimindex

The proposals are about civil marriages and some religious denominations do want the right to marry gay people so it depends on the institution. They don't all share the same views. Why should those that want to do so not be able to?

Then that is fine, those religious institutions who don't mind, but i'm talking about the that object you can't force them, It's their right, if it's something they believe as a reason why they are against Gay marriages, you have to respect it. But no point subjecting them to abuse like I have seen in threads like these.

A lot of the gay posters I have seen here come across as bigoted and prejudice. Brandishing the word homophobe around like its going out of style. Just because some people have a set of beliefs that are contrary to their own doesn't make them idiots, homophones etc. Many just don't care either way, as it's a private concern for the individuals. That';s my stance, some feel it is not right, but won't go out of their way to be abusive and discriminatory.

Tolerance works BOTH ways, and its a shame that the those campaigning for respect and equality feel the need to put down people who do not agree with them.

[BomoLad]

Too much deference is afforded to bigoted individuals. This eternal insistence that we 'respect' someone for their views no matter how contemptible, is not something I subscribe to.

If someone wishes to deny me the same privileges and rights that they enjoy themselves I'm not going to fawn over them and gush about how much I respect their opinion. I could not respect it less if I tried.

[Chester666666]

Originally Posted by zackai48

I, for one, will not get used to it. There is such an upsurge of opinion against same-sex marriage that I am hoping that the law will not be changed in favour of it.

If you don't like it then don't marry someone of the same sex or keep your nose out

Originally Posted by alycidon

I'm not bothering to read all your rubbish, but what right have YOU got to call anyone an idiot who happens to disagree with you?

because it's the truth as far as he and me plus others are concerned

[Glowbot]

Originally Posted by VoodooChic

When it's 2 women sometimes one is in a dress and the other in a suit....you never get blokes doing that. The bottom wears the dress and the top in the suit. haha
Maybe I'll fall head over heels in love one day and will change my mind. So yeah, the law should be equal....it's the fact it mimics straight marriage that makes it weird for me. We need a new way of doing it.

I'll never agree with this "mimics straight marriage" business. It makes it sound like they are just playing dress-up and trying to be like the normal straight people.

As far as I am concerned straight people have no more claim over marriage than gay people do and they aren't another species.
There's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater and do anything differently, that's the slippery slope to the "call it civil partnership" and keep it for just gays.



My mum walked my brother down the isle, as he married a Spanish gypsy and it was her tradition. There is no requirement in straight marriage to wear a dress either.

[designer84]

Originally Posted by slick1two

Then that is fine, those religious institutions who don't mind, but i'm talking about the that object you can't force them, It's their right, if it's something they believe as a reason why they are against Gay marriages, you have to respect it. But no point subjecting them to abuse like I have seen in threads like these.

A lot of the gay posters I have seen here come across as bigoted and prejudice. Brandishing the word homophobe around like its going out of style. Just because some people have a set of beliefs that are contrary to their own doesn't make them idiots, homophones etc. Many just don't care either way, as it's a private concern for the individuals. That';s my stance, some feel it is not right, but won't go out of their way to be abusive and discriminatory.

Tolerance works BOTH ways, and its a shame that the those campaigning for respect and equality feel the need to put down people who do not agree with them.

There have been good reasons to use the term homophobe on some of the other posts. Sometimes it has been over the top but at the same time, some of the excuses have been OTT too. There is no talk of forcing gay marriages in Churches. Why would you want to get married in a place that clearly doesn't want you there? It would just be uncomfortable for all. It's purely about being given the option to marry and giving us equal rights etc.
Yes tolerance works both ways but when people either can't give a legitimate reason to why they are against it or they throw bible quotes at you then it's not really tolerance, it's more bigoted opinion. I was raised CofE and my dad was raised Catholic. My Dad uses his Christian upbringings for reasons as to why he is against something. I on the other hand took on board my teachings but was able to come to my own conclusions. Just because a book thats only 2000 years old has one sentence in it that may be against homosexuality, doesn't mean it's right. There are many things in that book that over time we have regarded as outdated and wrong. We only have one life and we should live our lives to the fullest and be honest with ourselves. Spend less time arguing and more time accepting

[Chester666666]

Originally Posted by slick1two

Then that is fine, those religious institutions who don't mind, but i'm talking about the that object you can't force them, It's their right, if it's something they believe as a reason why they are against Gay marriages, you have to respect it. But no point subjecting them to abuse like I have seen in threads like these.

A lot of the gay posters I have seen here come across as bigoted and prejudice. Brandishing the word homophobe around like its going out of style. Just because some people have a set of beliefs that are contrary to their own doesn't make them idiots, homophones etc. Many just don't care either way, as it's a private concern for the individuals. That';s my stance, some feel it is not right, but won't go out of their way to be abusive and discriminatory.

Tolerance works BOTH ways, and its a shame that the those campaigning for respect and equality feel the need to put down people who do not agree with them.

Why respect or tolerate homophobes? The gay posters re neither bigoted or prejudiced
referring to someone as a homophobe is accurate when they express homophobia
Idiots and homophobes show these traits and thus are referred to as such

[epicurian]

Originally Posted by slick1two

Then that is fine, those religious institutions who don't mind, but i'm talking about the that object you can't force them, It's their right, if it's something they believe as a reason why they are against Gay marriages, you have to respect it. But no point subjecting them to abuse like I have seen in threads like these.

A lot of the gay posters I have seen here come across as bigoted and prejudice. Brandishing the word homophobe around like its going out of style. Just because some people have a set of beliefs that are contrary to their own doesn't make them idiots, homophones etc. Many just don't care either way, as it's a private concern for the individuals. That';s my stance, some feel it is not right, but won't go out of their way to be abusive and discriminatory.

Tolerance works BOTH ways, and its a shame that the those campaigning for respect and equality feel the need to put down people who do not agree with them.

Who is talking about forcing them?

Calling people idiots is counterproductive, but that doesn't mean I don't think some opinions aren't idiotic, irrespective of the ideology behind them. I can respect someone's right to their opinion, but it makes no sense to expect everyone respect any and all opinions.

[BomoLad]

Gay marriage should be in churches and after marriage is officially passed into legislation I'll embrace that as the new battleground. Anyone who doesn't like it or disagree best prepare for a fight they know in the long term they just cannot win.

[slick1two]

Originally Posted by BomoLad

Too much deference is afforded to bigoted individuals. This eternal insistence that we 'respect' someone for their views no matter how contemptible, is not something I subscribe to.

If someone wishes to deny me the same privileges and rights that they enjoy themselves I'm not going to fawn over them and gush about how much I respect their opinion. I could not respect it less if I tried.

But you don't understand, you are asking to be married in a church. An institution that has a set of followers who do not support homosexuality as a general rule. Of course you have exceptions to that rule, but this is the reality of the situation. Religion and faith are a part of who we are, and you cannot expect people en masse to bend to your will and do things differently. Things may well change in favour of having gay marriages in churches but there is plentiful opposition to it at the moment, and no amount of abuse against such people is going to change things overnight.

I'm British born, but I'm not white. It's taken decades to be accepted and even now it's a struggle at times. People don't just change cos you ask them to, or demand they do, or even by hurling abuse at them. It's a slow process, and you will have to be patient.

[Schadenfreud]

Originally Posted by BomoLad

Gay marriage should be in churches and after marriage is officially passed into legislation I'll embrace that as the new battleground. Anyone who doesn't like it or disagree best prepare for a fight they know in the long term they just cannot win.

Why would you want to get married in a place that doesn't want you there, just to be contrary for the sake of it?

[BomoLad]

Originally Posted by slick1two

But you don't understand, you are asking to be married in a church. An institution that has a set of followers who do not support homosexuality as a general rule. Of course you have exceptions to that rule, but this is the reality of the situation. Religion and faith are a part of who we are, and you cannot expect people en masse to bend to your will and do things differently. Things may well change in favour of having gay marriages in churches but there is plentiful opposition to it at the moment, and no amount of abuse against such people is going to change things overnight.

I'm British born, but I'm not white. It's taken decades to be accepted and even now it's a struggle at times. People don't just change cos you ask them to, or demand they do, or even by hurling abuse at them. It's a slow process, and you will have to be patient.

There isn't an institution you could name that isn't or hasn't in the very recent past been inherently hostile to homosexuals.

I'm inpatient and I don't have to be any other way.

[Glowbot]

Originally Posted by slick1two

But you don't understand, you are asking to be married in a church. An institution that has a set of followers who do not support homosexuality as a general rule. Of course you have exceptions to that rule, but this is the reality of the situation. Religion and faith are a part of who we are, and you cannot expect people en masse to bend to your will and do things differently. Things may well change in favour of having gay marriages in churches but there is plentiful opposition to it at the moment, and no amount of abuse against such people is going to change things overnight.

I'm British born, but I'm not white. It's taken decades to be accepted and even now it's a struggle at times. People don't just change cos you ask them to, or demand they do, or even by hurling abuse at them. It's a slow process, and you will have to be patient.

I'm sick of this ignorant opinion.
Get this in to your thick head, and tell your friends too :

no one is forcing churches to accept or perform gay marriages

Churches that ALREADY want to marry gay people want that right

the change in law only covers civil marriages

Originally Posted by Schadenfreud

Why would you want to get married in a place that doesn't want you there, just to be contrary for the sake of it?

these threads are like playing bingo.

[BomoLad]

Originally Posted by Schadenfreud

Why would you want to get married in a place that doesn't want you there, just to be contrary for the sake of it?

The same argument could be made against standing for parliament, running for other public office, joining the army, the police force, becoming a teacher, a fireman or even continuing to live in Britain.

In the past that many alive can still remember there existed a prejudice associated with homosexuals in all of the above. Surely if you have to ask 'why would you want to serve in the military if they don't want you?' or 'why would you stand for election for election to a legislative body that until 1968 outlawed you?' or 'why would you wish to become a teacher when up until the last generation your involvement with children in education would provoke negative reaction and innuendo as to your motives?' - then I fear you're missing the point entirely.

[kimindex]

Originally Posted by slick1two

Then that is fine, those religious institutions who don't mind, but i'm talking about the that object you can't force them, It's their right, if it's something they believe as a reason why they are against Gay marriages, you have to respect it. But no point subjecting them to abuse like I have seen in threads like these.

A lot of the gay posters I have seen here come across as bigoted and prejudice. Brandishing the word homophobe around like its going out of style. Just because some people have a set of beliefs that are contrary to their own doesn't make them idiots, homophones etc. Many just don't care either way, as it's a private concern for the individuals. That';s my stance, some feel it is not right, but won't go out of their way to be abusive and discriminatory.

Tolerance works BOTH ways, and its a shame that the those campaigning for respect and equality feel the need to put down people who do not agree with them.

Indeed it does but wanting to deny other people the rights you enjoy yourself is not tolerant. It's prejudice and discriminatory and people who don't want to be called on it shouldn't indulge in it. Prejudiced people can't expect not to be called prejudiced.

Not caring about equality and prejudice is your prerogative but I'm not going to admire you for it. I think it's a negative trait. Objecting to other people's prejudice isn't prejudice.

[Glowbot]

Originally Posted by BomoLad

The same argument could be made against standing for parliament, running for other public office, joining the army, the police force, becoming a teacher, a fireman or even continuing to live in Britain.

In the past that many alive can still remember there existed a prejudice associated with homosexuals in all of the above. Surely if you have to ask 'why would you want to serve in the military if they don't want you?' or 'why would you stand for election for election to a legislative body that until 1968 outlawed you?' or 'why would you wish to become a teacher when up until the last generation your involvement with children in education would provoke negative reaction and innuendo as to your motives?' - then I fear you're missing the point entirely.

why would you want to ride at the front of a bus when that's just for white people?