[sovietusername]

I've been watching the recent series 6 repeats on BBC 3 and I was just wondering why the curse of the black spot and the rebel flesh/the almost people gets such a bad press. They are both perfectly good stories with some really good moments and (in the case of the almost people) a fantastic cliffhanger leading into the main series 6 thread with a good man goes to war. They deserve much more credit than they deserve and are really good, quite clever episodes

[bbll22]

Oh I agree, they're all perfectly good episodes. CotBS is a very well-written episode with the Siren as a good 'villain' - admittedly, I didn't like the ending but it's still a good ep.

As for The Rebel Flesh I've seen no end on here saying nothing happens in that episode but I get annoyed with that as not all episodes can be high octane all the time. I liked that slower pace as it set everything up wonderfully for the excellent Almost People.

I'm always in a minority here on though - like I am always in life - the things you get for quite liking the Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe, eh?

[TLC1098]

The Black spot was good but the flesh 2 parters were the most boring Who episodes ever.
They are the only 2 series 6 episodes I will never watch again!

[jimthepig]

I have to congratulate you on being able to sit through The rebel flesh and The almost people again! Once was enough for me.

[bbll22]

Originally Posted by jimthepig

I have to congratulate you on being able to sit through The rebel flesh and The almost people again! Once was enough for me.

it's about 5 times I've watched them now....still as good as ever!

I'd sooner have them on loop than episodes such as Love & Monsters, Fear Her, New Earth, Daleks in Manhatten/Evolution of the Daleks, Voyage of the Damned and the End of Time any day!

The music from the 2-parter for me is one of the many highlights on the Series 6 soundtrack!

[daveyboy7472]

Originally Posted by bbll22

Oh I agree, they're all perfectly good episodes. CotBS is a very well-written episode with the Siren as a good 'villain' - admittedly, I didn't like the ending but it's still a good ep.

As for The Rebel Flesh I've seen no end on here saying nothing happens in that episode but I get annoyed with that as not all episodes can be high octane all the time. I liked that slower pace as it set everything up wonderfully for the excellent Almost People.

I'm always in a minority here on though - like I am always in life - the things you get for quite liking the Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe, eh?

Slow pace is fine as long as the story works. In this case it didn't. For me that two parter was as dull as ditchwater and even on watching it again recently it was no improvement. The second episode was only saved by the Amy revelation at the end.

Don't worry about being in a minority though, on that one we are both the same.

Oh, the The Curse Of The Black Spot wasn't bad but it could have been a tad better, didn't mind that at all.

[Lady of Traken]

Hmmm interesting I don't hate either of these stories but they are a mixed bag.

Curse of the Black Spot is a story I wouldn't watch over and over but its a decent story. Considereing they filmed in Cornwall it does feel quite enclosed and claustrophobic on the ship. Hugh Bonnervilles Captain is excellent ( the prequel is actually quite effective) and I seriously wish they could have explored his character a little more and concentrated less on his stowaway son. I ilke the shift to the alien ship too halfway through.

Downsides It was a little cliched about pirates such as stealing treasure, walking the plank, mutiny etc which to be honest Pirates of the Caribeanean did all of that a whole lot betterand funnier but if you don't take it too seriously I guess its okay ! Oh and Rory nearly dying (again). That whole scene was so pointless cos we knew he would be okay.

The Almost People and Rebel Flesh is actually very good. We get two Doctors, cant always tell who is a ganger and human and Amy not knowing her Doctor and Rory getting involved with savingJennifer.Its quite atmospheric at times especially when the Flesh begins to sabotage the base.

There were a couple things that let down the story imo. I don't really agree with Ganger Jimmy being set up as a new father to Jimmys son but thats my issue.Also the fantastic Marshall Lancaster as Buzzer was hardly used ( too many characters why ! ) and & the CGI roaring Jennifer at the end ruined the effect of building up the real actual Jennifer. Tragic herione becomes pantomine monster !!! but I would watch this story more than the pirate one.

[Listentome]

Curse of The Black Spot I can live without seeing again, but the Flesh two parter was great, what I would call a very classic Who format and didn't find it boring at all.

[Scorpio2]

Ugh those flesh episodes doesn't even deserve to be mentioned on this forum, they were dull and boring and I don't think I could ever sit through them again.
As for Curse of the black spot I actually enjoyed it, surely it wasn't the best episode but it was a good filler.

[M@nterik]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

I've been watching the recent series 6 repeats on BBC 3 and I was just wondering why the curse of the black spot and the rebel flesh/the almost people gets such a bad press. They are both perfectly good stories with some really good moments and (in the case of the almost people) a fantastic cliffhanger leading into the main series 6 thread with a good man goes to war. They deserve much more credit than they deserve and are really good, quite clever episodes

Hate is a rather strong term.

Personally i did not care for either of them. I will not bother watching them again. I cannot say i hate them.

[Talma]

Originally Posted by bbll22

it's about 5 times I've watched them now....still as good as ever!

I'd sooner have them on loop than episodes such as Love & Monsters, Fear Her, New Earth, Daleks in Manhatten/Evolution of the Daleks, Voyage of the Damned and the End of Time any day!

The music from the 2-parter for me is one of the many highlights on the Series 6 soundtrack!

This, I enjoyed The Rebel Flesh/Almost People very much - except for the monster Jennifer at the end - and could watch them again very easily. The episodes mentioned above and one or two others I've hardly been able to drag myself through again, the first time was bad enough. Special kudos to Voyage of the Damned for trying to ruin that Christmas for me after all the hype, it was truly dreadful
Except for New Earth, actually, I quite liked that.
Just goes to show we're all different.

[sovietusername]

Originally Posted by bbll22

Oh I agree, they're all perfectly good episodes. CotBS is a very well-written episode with the Siren as a good 'villain' - admittedly, I didn't like the ending but it's still a good ep.

As for The Rebel Flesh I've seen no end on here saying nothing happens in that episode but I get annoyed with that as not all episodes can be high octane all the time. I liked that slower pace as it set everything up wonderfully for the excellent Almost People.

I'm always in a minority here on though - like I am always in life - the things you get for quite liking the Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe, eh?

To be fair- I didnt like the Doctor, the widow and the wardrobe, it was just, just, no.

However I do agree with everything else you say and I think I know why these are so disliked, for the same reason I disliked the mahority of episodes in series 6 part 2 (with the exception of lets kill hitler, night terrors and wedding of river song, all brilliant episodes). Everyone has given episodes like the girl who waited or closing time rave reviews and it seems to be favoured by most. I cant actually find any faults with them, there all really good episodes, but I disliked them, more than that, they actually bored me. Bored me, an episode of dr who actually bored me, how's that even possible?! I think it's just cos the pace of the main story arc and what was happening was so mindbendingly BRILLIANT, the others did sseem boring in comparison.

Seems you can have to much of a good thing!

[Midnight Moggy]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

I've been watching the recent series 6 repeats on BBC 3 and I was just wondering why the curse of the black spot and the rebel flesh/the almost people gets such a bad press. They are both perfectly good stories with some really good moments and (in the case of the almost people) a fantastic cliffhanger leading into the main series 6 thread with a good man goes to war. They deserve much more credit than they deserve and are really good, quite clever episodes

I agree with you, they really aren't that bad at all. It's almost as if there has to be one or two designated poor episodes per series, from the fans' point of view. We couldn't possibly say they were all good!

[M@nterik]

Originally Posted by Midnight Moggy

I agree with you, they really aren't that bad at all. It's almost as if there has to be one or two designated poor episodes per series, from the fans' point of view. We couldn't possibly say they were all good!

There is a difference between deciding an episode is poor and hating it.

I personally thought Curse was really poor, Rebel Flesh two parter was okay. Nothing special.

THing is, in any season, stories will always be judged relative to each other and some fans won't get why one story is disliked.

To equate it to hate is harsh.

After all I know alot of people have little regard for Underworld but I really really like it for some reason. I would not say I have seen people hating it.

[daveyboy7472]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

I think it's just cos the pace of the main story arc and what was happening was so mindbendingly BRILLIANT, the others did seem boring in comparison.

Seems you can have to much of a good thing!

I don't think the lack of story arc in the majority of the ganger episodes was really an issue for me. Yes, the resolution to the story certainly helped pep it up and the few references here and there but I actually liked the second half of Series 6 better than the first when the main arc took a back seat for a few weeks. So it was really to do with the story itself I didn't like it and the fact the cliffhanger was telegraphed so clearly I could have received said telegraph before the end of the episode!

Oh, and I loved the last Xmas Special. As someone has already said, it shows how different we all are!

[sebbie3000]

Originally Posted by Lady of Traken

Hmmm interesting I don't hate either of these stories but they are a mixed bag.

Curse of the Black Spot is a story I wouldn't watch over and over but its a decent story. Considereing they filmed in Cornwall it does feel quite enclosed and claustrophobic on the ship. Hugh Bonnervilles Captain is excellent ( the prequel is actually quite effective) and I seriously wish they could have explored his character a little more and concentrated less on his stowaway son. I ilke the shift to the alien ship too halfway through.

Downsides It was a little cliched about pirates such as stealing treasure, walking the plank, mutiny etc which to be honest Pirates of the Caribeanean did all of that a whole lot betterand funnier but if you don't take it too seriously I guess its okay ! Oh and Rory nearly dying (again). That whole scene was so pointless cos we knew he would be okay.

The Almost People and Rebel Flesh is actually very good. We get two Doctors, cant always tell who is a ganger and human and Amy not knowing her Doctor and Rory getting involved with savingJennifer.Its quite atmospheric at times especially when the Flesh begins to sabotage the base.

There were a couple things that let down the story imo. I don't really agree with Ganger Jimmy being set up as a new father to Jimmys son but thats my issue.Also the fantastic Marshall Lancaster as Buzzer was hardly used ( too many characters why ! ) and & the CGI roaring Jennifer at the end ruined the effect of building up the real actual Jennifer. Tragic herione becomes pantomine monster !!! but I would watch this story more than the pirate one.

Wasn't that the entire point of the two-parter? That the Gangers were exactly the same as the people they were copies of? They were both the father, just in different bodies (one biologically the father, the other the physical embodiment of the father's mind - memories and all). And that was the conclusion.

[M@nterik]

Originally Posted by daveyboy7472

Oh, and I loved the last Xmas Special. As someone has already said, it shows how different we all are!

I agree. I thought the last Xmas Special was great, my favourite since the first one.

Most of my mates were lukewarm on it.

[daveyboy7472]

Originally Posted by M@nterik

I agree. I thought the last Xmas Special was great, my favourite since the first one.

Most of my mates were lukewarm on it.

I think it's going to be one of those marmite episodes again, like Love and Monsters. Except that I liked this episode!

I watched this with my Dad who I'd put through the technicalities of The Girl Who Waited and even he thought it was a better episode to follow and it flowed along just nicely, just what you want after a few bevvy's on Xmas Day!

[Abomination]

I think the Series 6 structure let it down immensely. The opening two parter was such a big story, and then the whole arc was just left dangling there until A Good Man Goes To War. The real kick in the teeth came at the end of Day of the Moon, which even described the episodes to follow as 'some adventures'. With that line, it was almost as if the show has created a hierarchy of episodes, so that anything that followed this bold US-two-parter is merely "some adventure".

The Curse of the Black Spot was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. Night Terrors was originally intended to occupy this point in the series, but either episode would have become a victim of the grandeur of the two-parter before it. With The Doctors Wife following it with a huge budget and a lot of hype, TCotBS was always going to be a bit underwhelming. Which was a shame really, as although it's far from a perfect episode, it was a hugely enjoyable one that was well paced, had some great characters and a brilliant 'enemy' in The Siren.

The Rebel Flesh / The Almost People was an absolutely brilliant concept. It was quite a deep, moral plot at heart and had a lot of character moments. The setting was also quite effective, but after a while there is something just entirely dull about the episodes, and I can't put my finger on what it is. I likened this dullness to the one I felt whilst watching Fear Her, and then discovered that they were by the same writer - whether or not that was a cause I have no idea, but The Doctors Wife would have made for a far more intriguing two-parter in my personal opinion.

[TheSilentFez]

I must admit, I'm not CotBS's biggest fan, but I never like to say I hated a Doctor Who episode and it did have its good parts so I most definitely don't hate it.
I think I gave it a 7/10 so I'll probably stick with that rating.

I really liked the Rebel Flesh/Almost People episodes and can't really see why they were hated so much, or even how they were boring.
Not Doctor Who at its best, but still two solid episodes.

[Whovian1109]

Curse of the Black Spot was okay for what it was - a cast iron filler that was a bit of fun.

I too very much enjoy the Gangers two-parter (having had a series 6 marathon yesterday and skipping but four episodes) and I find it to be intriguing, especially the second part with the two Doctors and its nowhere near as dull as the pathetic narnia rip off we got for Christmas.

[davrosdodebird]

Originally Posted by TLC1098

The Black spot was good but the flesh 2 parters were the most boring Who episodes ever.
They are the only 2 series 6 episodes I will never watch again!

Originally Posted by jimthepig

I have to congratulate you on being able to sit through The rebel flesh and The almost people again! Once was enough for me.

Originally Posted by Scorpio2

Ugh those flesh episodes doesn't even deserve to be mentioned on this forum, they were dull and boring and I don't think I could ever sit through them again.
As for Curse of the black spot I actually enjoyed it, surely it wasn't the best episode but it was a good filler.

Clearly all these posters could NEVER watch a classic who story

Spoiler

Also, have any of you actually watched The Hungry Earth/ Cold Blood recently? *shudders*

[TheSilentFez]

Originally Posted by davrosdodebird

Spoiler

Also, have any of you actually watched The Hungry Earth/ Cold Blood recently? *shudders*

Yes, they are absolutely brilliant!

[Yoshi Fan]

Curse of the Black Spot is one of my favourites of series 6. The flesh two parter was (in my opinion) just a dragged out, boring two parter which led to

Spoiler

the revelation that Amy had been kidnapped and replaced by a flesh ganger.

I personally found it was a two-parter which didn't need to be...could easily have been a one episode story.

[Joanne1938]

Curse of the black spot was a bit of light relief, a fun episode after its two dark and dramatic predecessors. Possibly it was that difference which threw people off. Watching it again I have to agree it was brilliant. As for the Rebel Flesh/Almost People, this was again a change from the previous (and stunning) Doctor's wife into a more mature, darker episode with bags of psychological subtext. The whole principal was that the Doctor was there to see if Amy could be a ganger, he wanted her out of the way at the beginning as he already suspected, and he used her as a Guinea Pig to see how easily a ganger could assimilate into an environment, by using a ganger of himself. The "story" itself was purely the backdrop, his "accident" in creating a ganger of himself wasn't an accident. Two stunning episodes in the context of the series.