[doctorwhofancal]

I personally think Tomb Of The Cybermen should be 6 parts instead of 6 and Frontios a 2 parter instead of 2. Have you got any examples?

[king yrcanos]

I thought the Rebel Flesh and The Almost People should be a 1 parter because it was so boring. The God Complex should have been IMO, a two parter as it didn't show it's full potential. The Armageddon Factor would better off as a 4 or even 2 parter.

[CD93]

Victory of the Daleks needed a more solid story. The new Daleks appearance didn't let that episode down - no matter how much some people have an irrational hatred of them.

The most important aspect of that ep was how the Daleks actually got a Victory and escaped in one piece for a change.

As above, Rebel Flesh / Almost People could probably have lost a fair bit of exposition. But it wasn't too bad for me.

[gslam2]

I really don't see what two more episodes would add to Tomb. It has a very simple story and I very much doubt they'd be able to maintain the tension over two more episodes.

Most Who stories over 4 parts could probably stand to lose an episode or two but sometimes even if it tightened the story you might lose some good stuff. Talons could probably lose an episode but then we might miss out on the Jago & Litefoot interaction which Holmes used to bulk out some of the later episodes.

[Mulett]

In classic Who, pretty much every Jon Pertwee story is about 30% too long.

[daveyboy7472]

Originally Posted by Mulett

In classic Who, pretty much every Jon Pertwee story is about 30% too long.

I was going to say this. As in the threads I'm doing at the moment, every story over 4 parts should have been 4 parts with the exception of Inferno, which could have lot an episode.

The Pertwee Era is no exception, though. I think most stories as a whole in Classic Who over 4 parts could be shorter with a few exceptions like The Web Of Fear and The Daemons.

In New Who, Victory Of The Daleks could have been a 2-parter and the ganger story from last series a single episode, might have made it a bit better, but only maybe.

[sovietusername]

I'd say theres quite a few William Hartnell stories that need less, stories like the Daleks are hugely padded.

[bazves]

I watched 'The Invasion of Time' last night (in the midst of an ongoing classic who re-watch from Pertwee on). I thought at 6 parts that it was a little padded

[Abomination]

I'd have loved to have seen a two-parter out of Victory of the Daleks, but I could imagine a slight backlash from some people who have always criticised the over-use of the Daleks.

For me though, the one episode that I really feel needed to be a two-parter was The Wedding of River Song - a finale that tried to introduce a whole new element of the plot, whilst resolving the ongoing story of the series. It came across as very convoluted and very rushed. We had a "beginning" with The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon - a two parter of epic proportions. We then had the "middle" in A Good Man Goes To War/Lets Kill Hitler - an interlinked story that dramatically continued the ongoing plot. And then we had the end in The Wedding of River Song - not even half the length of the beginning or middle, this was an episode screaming to be a two-parter, but instead we got the relatively disappointing Closing Time.

The structure of Series 6 really let the whole thing down for me, with the finale being the biggest victim of it all.

[gwalker94]

What you've got to ask though, is is it padding or is it just that the increased pace of modern day television makes it seem like padding? I mean, yeah, in some stories, it is, but others.

I was thinking about this whilst reading the time team in DWM. The pre-titles part of The Impossible Planet would've been a whole episode long back in Hartnell's day.
5 minutes in the ship, 10 minutes exploring, 5 minutes looking at the strange writing, Susan opens a door, screams, we cut to an unusual looking alien and then the credits roll.
I'd say a lot of it is due to pacing - TV back then was made more like theatre than like the TV we watch today

[Listentome]

Originally Posted by doctorwhofancal

I personally think Tomb Of The Cybermen should be 6 parts instead of 6 and Frontios a 2 parter instead of 2. Have you got any examples?

Sorry am I being really thick? You say Tomb should be 6 parts instead of 6 and Frontios 2 parter instead of 2?

[Whovian1109]

Originally Posted by Abomination

I'd have loved to have seen a two-parter out of Victory of the Daleks, but I could imagine a slight backlash from some people who have always criticised the over-use of the Daleks.

For me though, the one episode that I really feel needed to be a two-parter was The Wedding of River Song - a finale that tried to introduce a whole new element of the plot, whilst resolving the ongoing story of the series. It came across as very convoluted and very rushed. We had a "beginning" with The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon - a two parter of epic proportions. We then had the "middle" in A Good Man Goes To War/Lets Kill Hitler - an interlinked story that dramatically continued the ongoing plot. And then we had the end in The Wedding of River Song - not even half the length of the beginning or middle, this was an episode screaming to be a two-parter, but instead we got the relatively disappointing Closing Time.

The structure of Series 6 really let the whole thing down for me, with the finale being the biggest victim of it all.

I really did think the Daleks pretending to be good didn't go on anywhere near long enough, it seemed to be a bit pointless... It needed to be a two parter. However I think they got WoRS spot on and there was no reason for it to be a two-parter, although I agree there were one or two stories we could've done without (Closing Time/Night Terrors)

[Joanne1938]

I agree over the Victory of the Daleks being a 2 parter, but it was also the ambience of the story that was wrong.This was set in wartime, it should have been serious like in the "Doctor Dances", with punctuating moments of comedy.Instead we got all that "Tally-Ho" and "Chocks-away" rubbish. Eew!! SM would have been well served to watch an episode or two of Foyle's War first. The problem with AGMGTW was that not only had half the people watching heard the ridiculous spoiler campaign, but that most of those who hadn't had worked out who River was anyway. Kind of took the shine off things. Also this should have been done more dramatically like TIA/DOTM, but to me a definite one parter.

[TheSilentFez]

The Wedding of River Song would have been much better as a two-parter.
Miracle Day could have whole episodes thrown in the bin. About 50% of the ten episodes weren't needed.

[CD93]

SM would have been well served to watch an episode or two of Foyle's War first.

Although SM would have checked over it, he didn't write the script

[doctorwhofancal]

Originally Posted by Listentome

Sorry am I being really thick? You say Tomb should be 6 parts instead of 6 and Frontios 2 parter instead of 2?

No, I wasn't thinking right

[Shoppy]

As good as they are, i think many of the two-parters in series 1-4 could have made better standalone episodes.

Aliens Of London / World War Three has Slitheen in it, so that one's beyond redemption either way, and the new series return of the Cybermen and Sontarans, as well as the series finales, are befitting of two-parters, likewise the adaptation of Human Nature.

But ...
The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances
The Impossible Planet / The Satan Pit
Daleks In Manhattan / Evolution Of The Daleks
Silence In The Llibrary / Forest Of The Dead
... would have all been stronger as single episodes.

Whereas there are some single episode stories such as Vampires In Venice and Victory Of The Daleks which would have been far more effective with twice as much time to tell the story in.

[Shoppy]

Originally Posted by Mulett

In classic Who, pretty much every Jon Pertwee story is about 30% too long.

... for a modern audience with a lower attention span and greater demand for a constant information feed than the avergae audience of the 1970s.

[Joanne1938]

Originally Posted by CD93

Although SM would have checked over it, he didn't write the script

I agree but its all part of a process. The overall feel of the episode and the final product is the responsibiity of the director and producer.

[Larry1971]

Originally Posted by Mulett

In classic Who, pretty much every Jon Pertwee story is about 30% too long.

agreed, there are also a few Hartnell/Troughton's that ccould do with being an episode or two shorter amongst them I'ed say

The Sensorites
The Web Planet
The Dominators
Invasion.

[DoctorQui]

Originally Posted by Mulett

In classic Who, pretty much every Jon Pertwee story is about 30% too long.

Yes I agree. I often wonder if, while they were filming, they actually thought it was taking too long. After baker took over, 6 parters were quite rare and by the end of his tenure, non existant. Also, I wonder whether a 2 part story was an experiment with the Sontaran Experiment because it didn't happen again until Black Orchid.

Does anyone else wonder what the thinking behind these decisions was. I wonder how the production meetings were conducted?

[DoctorQui]

Originally Posted by Larry1971

agreed, there are also a few Hartnell/Troughton's that ccould do with being an episode or two shorter amongst them I'ed say


Invasion.

Really I thought that it was one of those perfectly timed stories!

[CoalHillJanitor]

The Two Doctors would have been more tolerable as 2 parts.

[Larry1971]

Invasion of Time would probably of been much better as a 4 part story .

[meglosmurmurs]

The thought of watching the entire 6 episodes of Space Pirates makes me a bit queasy.

Frontios has been mentioned, a story I always mistake for having 6 episodes and not just the actual 4. Not a good sign, I obviously think it drags a bit.

Jon Pertwee stories Colony in Space, Mutants, Time Monster and Monster of Peladon could particularly do with culling all the rubbish bits, taking them all down a few episodes to at least make them more tolerable.
Even Inferno, there is one particular episode where pretty much zilch happens, so I'd shave off just 1 episode to make it an even more brilliant story.

I also think War Games is far too long. I start getting frustrated by episode 5-6.