TV with timeshift HD USB PVR

Whipet · 06-07-2012, 22:00

Trying to find a TV with Freeview HD that has a USB pvr function that operates in standby.
The Samsung series 6 have it but like the Panasonics, playback is restricted to a particular TV which is not really worthwhile.
Finlux do one but with only live recording.
Anyone know of any with the feature.

bobcar · 06-07-2012, 22:18

Why not just get a PVR?

AyeJay · 06-07-2012, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

Why not just get a PVR?

Because maybe they don't record a lot, like to live pause occasionally, don't want to spend another £100+, and have their TV mounted on a main wall so don't want a box?

Many reasons.

gomezz · 07-07-2012, 14:27

If price is an issue then TV/recoderer combis is definitely not the way to go. Assuming they already have an otherwise competent TV then £100 or so for an SD PVR is the way to go. But perhaps the OP can tell us *why* they want to go the lesser trodden track? Knowing what they want to do would help people suggest how best to do it.

grahamlthompson · 07-07-2012, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by AyeJay

Because maybe they don't record a lot, like to live pause occasionally, don't want to spend another £100+, and have their TV mounted on a main wall so don't want a box?

Many reasons.

The hdd you require to record isn't free either and you can't use it for anything else. If the TV is mounted on a wall you still need a cable to a usb recording drive anyway

Some pvrs are little larger than a usb drive anyway.

eg

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Echostar-H...8130%26ps%3D54

Nigel Goodwin · 07-07-2012, 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whipet

Trying to find a TV with Freeview HD that has a USB pvr function that operates in standby.
The Samsung series 6 have it but like the Panasonics, playback is restricted to a particular TV which is not really worthwhile.
Finlux do one but with only live recording.
Anyone know of any with the feature.

Many current TV's have crude PVR type features (using an external USB HDD), but only allow playback on the specific set that recorded it, this is due to rights issues.

evil c · 08-07-2012, 01:58

There was a recent thread which went into the problems with the file format of Samsung and other TV recordings. As Nigel says, it is due to rights issues, the recordings are encrypted, and it was done originally as an act of paranoia to stop viewers from making and distributing DVDs. As the other posters have said, you will either have to buy an external USB HDD, which will allow you to record only one channel. Additionally you can do this in standby and you can pause live TV. Or buy a PVR if you want to watch one channel and record one or two others.

bobcar · 08-07-2012, 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by AyeJay

Because maybe they don't record a lot, like to live pause occasionally, don't want to spend another £100+, and have their TV mounted on a main wall so don't want a box?

Many reasons.

I wasn't asking you I was asking the OP, unless of course you know them and can answer for them?

Whipet · 08-07-2012, 20:44

Yes, I have an SD pvr but rather than upgrade both it and the TV I thought I could use a new TV for recording the occasion program I wanted in HD.
Also, I tend to record more than I watch and am getting weary of having to archive stuff to DVD. An external hard drive would be a better solution.

It seems that presumably to stop blu-ray copying via using a TV pvr function to save in mp4, the main manufacturers encrypt (a guess as I don't have blu-ray).

When I initially spoke to a Finlux salesgirl about their Freeview HD tv with USB recording she reckoned it saved in a standard format (xvid I think she said)
Perhaps it is only SD?

It is looking like I need to upgrade my pvr rather than the TV if I want to record the occasional program in HD.

Nigel Goodwin · 08-07-2012, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whipet

Yes, I have an SD pvr but rather than upgrade both it and the TV I thought I could use a new TV for recording the occasion program I wanted in HD.
Also, I tend to record more than I watch and am getting weary of having to archive stuff to DVD. An external hard drive would be a better solution.

It seems that presumably to stop blu-ray copying via using a TV pvr function to save in mp4, the main manufacturers encrypt (a guess as I don't have blu-ray).

When I initially spoke to a Finlux salesgirl about their Freeview HD tv with USB recording she reckoned it saved in a standard format (xvid I think she said)
Perhaps it is only SD?

Not as far as I know, but I've never tried a Finlux - in any case, I think Finlux has finished now? (Euronics found a distinct lack of enthusiasm for a badged Vestel).

Quote:

It is looking like I need to upgrade my pvr rather than the TV if I want to record the occasional program in HD.

It's a far better option anyway, a two tuner recorder is far better than a single one.

Whipet · 08-07-2012, 21:11

Finlux seem pretty large:

Quote:

Finlux is owned by Europe’s largest, and the world’s third largest television manufacturer. With 25% of the UK TV market, the manufacturer can call upon their vast research and development practices to provide Finlux with the latest in 3D, LED, LCD and Smart TVs at prices to allow them to compete with major retailers in the UK. As a result you'll be able to find great value TVs for any room in your home.

http://www.finluxdirect.com/customer...ux/page/about/

The TV I was thinking of is the 32f8030
http://www.finluxdirect.com/led-tvs/...,shop,smarttvs

grahamlthompson · 08-07-2012, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whipet

It seems that presumably to stop blu-ray copying via using a TV pvr function to save in mp4, the main manufacturers encrypt (a guess as I don't have blu-ray).

.

It's the broadcasters not the makers that impose the restrictions on the Freeview, Freesat and Sky Platforms.

SD content is normally recorded without encryption and some pvrs allow this content to be exported, HD is encrypted. Outside these platforms like generic satellite pvrs and htpc computers then the non encrypted transmissions are recorded as is.

Nigel Goodwin · 09-07-2012, 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whipet

Finlux seem pretty large:

Finlux is just a badge - it was the badge used exclusively by Euronics on their cheap sets (made by Vestel) - but as the dealers were impressed neither by the name Finlux (it never had a good reputation) not the crappy Vestel sets it's since been dropped.

It sounds like Vestel have taken over the name themselves?.

Whipet · 10-07-2012, 12:06

Quote:

It's the broadcasters not the makers that impose the restrictions on the Freeview, Freesat and Sky Platforms.

SD content is normally recorded without encryption and some pvrs allow this content to be exported, HD is encrypted. Outside these platforms like generic satellite pvrs and htpc computers then the non encrypted transmissions are recorded as is.

Asked Finlux and they replied the TV records HD channels in HD to the USB in .ts format.
I understand ts stands for transport stream but does that mean it is again encrypted or if I build up a library can I use it with other equipment?

grahamlthompson · 10-07-2012, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whipet

Asked Finlux and they replied the TV records HD channels in HD to the USB in .ts format.
I understand ts stands for transport stream but does that mean it is again encrypted or if I build up a library can I use it with other equipment?

It could be either. Encryption scrambles the bits, when decrypted it's a standard transport stream file.

Example with a Foxsat-hdr recording a HD channel produces a .ts file that will only play on the Foxsat-hdr that recorded it. Use non-freesat to record you still get a .ts, this one will play on anything capable of HD playback.

If it's Freeview-HD TV chances are it's encrypted.

Nigel Goodwin · 10-07-2012, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whipet

Asked Finlux and they replied the TV records HD channels in HD to the USB in .ts format.
I understand ts stands for transport stream but does that mean it is again encrypted or if I build up a library can I use it with other equipment?

Reputable manufacturers will encrypt the recordings, however Vestel may well not? - it really depends on how they choose to interpret their obligations.

However, I certainly wouldn't buy one on the assumption that you 'might' be able to transfer recordings in that way.

Sony specifically state in the manual that recordings can ONLY be played back on that specific exact TV, and that they also format the drive (in a special non-PC format) when first connected, wiping everything on it.

06-07-2012, 22:00	#1
Whipet Forum Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 34	TV with timeshift HD USB PVR Trying to find a TV with Freeview HD that has a USB pvr function that operates in standby. The Samsung series 6 have it but like the Panasonics, playback is restricted to a particular TV which is not really worthwhile. Finlux do one but with only live recording. Anyone know of any with the feature.

06-07-2012, 22:18	#2
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	Why not just get a PVR?

06-07-2012, 23:26	#3
AyeJay Guest Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 186	Quote: Originally Posted by bobcar Why not just get a PVR? Because maybe they don't record a lot, like to live pause occasionally, don't want to spend another £100+, and have their TV mounted on a main wall so don't want a box? Many reasons.

07-07-2012, 14:27	#4
gomezz Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Buckingham Posts: 28,590	If price is an issue then TV/recoderer combis is definitely not the way to go. Assuming they already have an otherwise competent TV then £100 or so for an SD PVR is the way to go. But perhaps the OP can tell us why they want to go the lesser trodden track? Knowing what they want to do would help people suggest how best to do it.

07-07-2012, 14:39	#5
grahamlthompson Forum Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Redditch Worcs Posts: 17,293	Quote: Originally Posted by AyeJay Because maybe they don't record a lot, like to live pause occasionally, don't want to spend another £100+, and have their TV mounted on a main wall so don't want a box? Many reasons. The hdd you require to record isn't free either and you can't use it for anything else. If the TV is mounted on a wall you still need a cable to a usb recording drive anyway Some pvrs are little larger than a usb drive anyway. eg http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Echostar-H...8130%26ps%3D54

07-07-2012, 15:04	#6
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by Whipet Trying to find a TV with Freeview HD that has a USB pvr function that operates in standby. The Samsung series 6 have it but like the Panasonics, playback is restricted to a particular TV which is not really worthwhile. Finlux do one but with only live recording. Anyone know of any with the feature. Many current TV's have crude PVR type features (using an external USB HDD), but only allow playback on the specific set that recorded it, this is due to rights issues.

08-07-2012, 01:58	#7
evil c Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Wirral Peninsula Posts: 4,777	There was a recent thread which went into the problems with the file format of Samsung and other TV recordings. As Nigel says, it is due to rights issues, the recordings are encrypted, and it was done originally as an act of paranoia to stop viewers from making and distributing DVDs. As the other posters have said, you will either have to buy an external USB HDD, which will allow you to record only one channel. Additionally you can do this in standby and you can pause live TV. Or buy a PVR if you want to watch one channel and record one or two others.

08-07-2012, 18:21	#8
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	Quote: Originally Posted by AyeJay Because maybe they don't record a lot, like to live pause occasionally, don't want to spend another £100+, and have their TV mounted on a main wall so don't want a box? Many reasons. I wasn't asking you I was asking the OP, unless of course you know them and can answer for them?

08-07-2012, 20:44	#9
Whipet Forum Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 34	Yes, I have an SD pvr but rather than upgrade both it and the TV I thought I could use a new TV for recording the occasion program I wanted in HD. Also, I tend to record more than I watch and am getting weary of having to archive stuff to DVD. An external hard drive would be a better solution. It seems that presumably to stop blu-ray copying via using a TV pvr function to save in mp4, the main manufacturers encrypt (a guess as I don't have blu-ray). When I initially spoke to a Finlux salesgirl about their Freeview HD tv with USB recording she reckoned it saved in a standard format (xvid I think she said) Perhaps it is only SD? It is looking like I need to upgrade my pvr rather than the TV if I want to record the occasional program in HD.

08-07-2012, 20:53	#10
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by Whipet Yes, I have an SD pvr but rather than upgrade both it and the TV I thought I could use a new TV for recording the occasion program I wanted in HD. Also, I tend to record more than I watch and am getting weary of having to archive stuff to DVD. An external hard drive would be a better solution. It seems that presumably to stop blu-ray copying via using a TV pvr function to save in mp4, the main manufacturers encrypt (a guess as I don't have blu-ray). When I initially spoke to a Finlux salesgirl about their Freeview HD tv with USB recording she reckoned it saved in a standard format (xvid I think she said) Perhaps it is only SD? Not as far as I know, but I've never tried a Finlux - in any case, I think Finlux has finished now? (Euronics found a distinct lack of enthusiasm for a badged Vestel). Quote: It is looking like I need to upgrade my pvr rather than the TV if I want to record the occasional program in HD. It's a far better option anyway, a two tuner recorder is far better than a single one.

08-07-2012, 21:11	#11
Whipet Forum Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 34	Finlux seem pretty large: Quote: Finlux is owned by Europe’s largest, and the world’s third largest television manufacturer. With 25% of the UK TV market, the manufacturer can call upon their vast research and development practices to provide Finlux with the latest in 3D, LED, LCD and Smart TVs at prices to allow them to compete with major retailers in the UK. As a result you'll be able to find great value TVs for any room in your home. http://www.finluxdirect.com/customer...ux/page/about/ The TV I was thinking of is the 32f8030 http://www.finluxdirect.com/led-tvs/...,shop,smarttvs

08-07-2012, 21:34	#12
grahamlthompson Forum Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Redditch Worcs Posts: 17,293	Quote: Originally Posted by Whipet It seems that presumably to stop blu-ray copying via using a TV pvr function to save in mp4, the main manufacturers encrypt (a guess as I don't have blu-ray). . It's the broadcasters not the makers that impose the restrictions on the Freeview, Freesat and Sky Platforms. SD content is normally recorded without encryption and some pvrs allow this content to be exported, HD is encrypted. Outside these platforms like generic satellite pvrs and htpc computers then the non encrypted transmissions are recorded as is.

09-07-2012, 08:52	#13
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by Whipet Finlux seem pretty large: Finlux is just a badge - it was the badge used exclusively by Euronics on their cheap sets (made by Vestel) - but as the dealers were impressed neither by the name Finlux (it never had a good reputation) not the crappy Vestel sets it's since been dropped. It sounds like Vestel have taken over the name themselves?.

10-07-2012, 12:06	#14
Whipet Forum Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 34	Quote: It's the broadcasters not the makers that impose the restrictions on the Freeview, Freesat and Sky Platforms. SD content is normally recorded without encryption and some pvrs allow this content to be exported, HD is encrypted. Outside these platforms like generic satellite pvrs and htpc computers then the non encrypted transmissions are recorded as is. Asked Finlux and they replied the TV records HD channels in HD to the USB in .ts format. I understand ts stands for transport stream but does that mean it is again encrypted or if I build up a library can I use it with other equipment?

10-07-2012, 13:09	#15
grahamlthompson Forum Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Redditch Worcs Posts: 17,293	Quote: Originally Posted by Whipet Asked Finlux and they replied the TV records HD channels in HD to the USB in .ts format. I understand ts stands for transport stream but does that mean it is again encrypted or if I build up a library can I use it with other equipment? It could be either. Encryption scrambles the bits, when decrypted it's a standard transport stream file. Example with a Foxsat-hdr recording a HD channel produces a .ts file that will only play on the Foxsat-hdr that recorded it. Use non-freesat to record you still get a .ts, this one will play on anything capable of HD playback. If it's Freeview-HD TV chances are it's encrypted.

10-07-2012, 13:24	#16
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by Whipet Asked Finlux and they replied the TV records HD channels in HD to the USB in .ts format. I understand ts stands for transport stream but does that mean it is again encrypted or if I build up a library can I use it with other equipment? Reputable manufacturers will encrypt the recordings, however Vestel may well not? - it really depends on how they choose to interpret their obligations. However, I certainly wouldn't buy one on the assumption that you 'might' be able to transfer recordings in that way. Sony specifically state in the manual that recordings can ONLY be played back on that specific exact TV, and that they also format the drive (in a special non-PC format) when first connected, wiping everything on it.

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TV with timeshift HD USB PVR