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Old 12-04-2013, 21:12
Gerry1
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Mono, mono, mono, lo-fi, lo-fi, lo-fi.

We can't keep this 405 line digital radio system for ever !

When's someone going to take the plunge and go for DAB+ ?
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Old 12-04-2013, 22:31
hanssolo
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Teamrock have a choice either go for standard DAB in mono to about 16 million sets, mostly mono anyway, or since all of the last years DAB sets, almost 2 million, are also DAB+ compatable, go say 64k stereo DAB+?

They will probably choose standard DAB in mono (with stereo on the web) to get the most listeners.
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Old 12-04-2013, 22:36
hanssolo
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Dewsbury from Real xs has just finished his last stint tonight and by all the clues he's given out on his twitter feed , looks like he's one of the presenters , I for one am looking forward to this , no ads is always a good thing
I suspect a few of the ex Rock radio/Real xs presenters might get taken on?
http://radiotoday.co.uk/2013/04/real...ester-station/

We don't know yet how often sponsors, festivals and the magazines will be pushed?
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Old 13-04-2013, 00:04
Alan Thew
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Teamrock have a choice either go for standard DAB in mono to about 16 million sets, mostly mono anyway, or since all of the last years DAB sets, almost 2 million, are also DAB+ compatable, go say 64k stereo DAB+?

They will probably choose standard DAB in mono (with stereo on the web) to get the most listeners.
Surely there's no choice to be made, Hans? There's more chance of TeamRock launching with a 24-hour tribute to Gary Glitter than them launching using DAB+. Even if they were to insist on exploiting the "30 per cent loophole" (whereby up to 30 per cent of a multiplex can be allocated to "data", i.e. anything which isn't vanilla DAB/MP2 audio) -- which would be commercial suicide -- Ofcom could still veto it as being not in the public interest.
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Old 13-04-2013, 01:32
Hertz
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The problem with DAB+ is of course backwards compatability, and the fact that standard DAB radios can't receive it.

I think there would be a public outcry if everyone was told they'd have to get new DAB radios after having just invested in one.

DAB+ really ought to be standard in all DAB radios being sold in the UK now, or at the very least available via a software update.

Most of the new Pure models are now DAB+. It's odd that Roberts hasn't followed suit, especially when their European counterparts are equiped to receive it.
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Old 13-04-2013, 05:10
jaffboy151
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If dab+ does not start to be introduced across the spectrum soon then in a few years dab will be dead.. By the end of is year dab will be full of mono stations most of which are just simulcasts of stations all ready on FM. No room for any real choice in most areas, D2 won't solve this problem as stations can't afford the TX costs to make going stereo on MP2 viable, where dab's main future market is is incar, and this is where mono only and little extra choice over FM will be noticed most and not excepted, as more the mono kitchen radio being the future... Well, as there is going to be hardly any extra choice over FM soon, with many of the previously enjoyed stations only available online, the kitchen environment is the perfect place to have a Internet radio! And if people move down that route it will kill commercial radio dead, as each station won't just have other multiplex station to compete with, but every station in the world set up by anyone who can. Total loss of market control..
The only solution which is right economically and right for the user us to switch to dab+
It could be done one of 2 ways, convert existing FM station to it, thus giving non comparable sets the choice of still having the station available via FM or leaving the main stations on mp2 and converting any extra stations to dab+ meaning for extra choice you need a dab+ radio...
People are very keen on pointing out that there would be an outcry about there radio no longer being comparable. But I don't remember this happening when several changes took place on freeview transmissions meaning older STB's would no longer work a couple of years back...
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Old 13-04-2013, 08:35
1974
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Dewsbury from Real xs has just finished his last stint tonight and by all the clues he's given out on his twitter feed , looks like he's one of the presenters , I for one am looking forward to this , no ads is always a good thing
Hugh Evans, the man otherwise known as 'Moose' is part of the management set up for TeamRock, so will be interesting to see if he does any on air work. With Miss Rach also leaving Real XS you'd have to feel its likely she'll be heading that way too. Be surprised if TeamRock don't position themselves to do business with Global for Real XS.
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Old 13-04-2013, 08:56
hanssolo
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Surely there's no choice to be made, Hans? There's more chance of TeamRock launching with a 24-hour tribute to Gary Glitter than them launching using DAB+. Even if they were to insist on exploiting the "30 per cent loophole" (whereby up to 30 per cent of a multiplex can be allocated to "data", i.e. anything which isn't vanilla DAB/MP2 audio) -- which would be commercial suicide -- Ofcom could still veto it as being not in the public interest.
I agree it would be commercial suicide, but now don't think Ofcom would veto it if Teamrock really wanted to take the risk to go DAB+ for stereo?

The only solution which is right economically and right for the user us to switch to dab+
It could be done one of 2 ways, convert existing FM station to it, thus giving non comparable sets the choice of still having the station available via FM or leaving the main stations on mp2 and converting any extra stations to dab+ meaning for extra choice you need a dab+ radio...
NHK TV is now only HD so deprives SD viewers of Japanese news and culture. But is not after high viewing figures.

Agree going DAB+ would not work well for listening figures for the Teamrock national launch on (mono) DAB and stereo online, but to kick start DAB+ either all stations move as in Germany but the 2 main public radio stations have decided to keep standard DAB even though the number of old DAB only sets are low! But an approach where stations are similcast on DAB+ (rather than standard DAB) and FM might work?
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Old 13-04-2013, 11:41
thisisnojoke
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Looks like Team Rock will serve as the retirement home for ex-GMG staff. Virtually the entire management team has come from there, so probably safe to assume the presenters will too.

Jobs for the boys eh John?

http://radiotoday.co.uk/2013/04/team...nagement-team/
If Myers is putting his own money into a venture then he is obviously going to employ people he trusts. Nothing wrong with that. Radio Today points to Myers being a part time chair. The real person at the top is someone called Billy Anderson who it's said founded the business and the people he's brought in so far seem to be experienced.

I do agree with other posters that some of the Real XS people might find a home here especially as the PD of Rock Radio is leading the radio bit although I hear Bauer feel very threatened by this venture, having just bought Planet Rock. Who knows, all rumours.

On the recent Guardian media podcast Myers said the station will be miles apart from Planet Rock in sound and that if he recognised more than 3 songs an hour it was not different enough. The new model is interesting but I still don't see how they are going to make money as a radio station. The cost of DAB must be close to 1m a year and if you then add in staff, building and more it will cost something like 160,000 a month or 40K a week just to break even. Obviously I am guessing here. If they're not taking any commercials how do they fund it?

Finally, the Engineer at my station told me that he'd heard Team Rock will broadcast on 80K not 64K but I can't confirm that.
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Old 13-04-2013, 12:18
James30
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Why new talent. New talent is nothing as good as the old ones.
Why does commercial Radio have this 'in it for the boys' network, where new talent doesn't get a look in.
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Old 13-04-2013, 12:19
casaboy22
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If Myers is putting his own money into a venture then he is obviously going to employ people he trusts. Nothing wrong with that. Radio Today points to Myers being a part time chair. The real person at the top is someone called Billy Anderson who it's said founded the business and the people he's brought in so far seem to be experienced.

I do agree with other posters that some of the Real XS people might find a home here especially as the PD of Rock Radio is leading the radio bit although I hear Bauer feel very threatened by this venture, having just bought Planet Rock. Who knows, all rumours.

On the recent Guardian media podcast Myers said the station will be miles apart from Planet Rock in sound and that if he recognised more than 3 songs an hour it was not different enough. The new model is interesting but I still don't see how they are going to make money as a radio station. The cost of DAB must be close to 1m a year and if you then add in staff, building and more it will cost something like 160,000 a month or 40K a week just to break even. Obviously I am guessing here. If they're not taking any commercials how do they fund it?

Finally, the Engineer at my station told me that he'd heard Team Rock will broadcast on 80K not 64K but I can't confirm that.
Well GMG management spent half a billion quid on building up a group that sold for a tenth of that, so why worry about money now?
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Old 13-04-2013, 13:53
simon243
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I still don't see how they are going to make money as a radio station. The cost of DAB must be close to 1m a year and if you then add in staff, building and more it will cost something like 160,000 a month or 40K a week just to break even.
Neither can I.

I'm afraid the sceptical side of me sees this as a vanity project with two aims - (1) satisfying its founders' tastes for obscure dad rock that (probably for a good reason) isn't played anywhere else, and (2) providing employment for their mates at GMG who are, sadly, losing their jobs under the Global takeover. I assume they've only bought the profitable magazines to prop up what will inevitably be a heavily loss-making radio station.

There's nothing wrong with vanity projects as long as you have backers with deep pockets who are prepared to keep losing money to fund them. But as Malcolm Bluemel's learned with Planet Rock, you can only keep losing money for so long and sooner or later Team Rock will realise that their newly acquired magazines won't be able to fund the radio station for ever.

There simply isn't the demand from advertisers for so many male-oriented music stations in the UK. We will shortly have Absolute, Absolute Classic Rock, the Absolute decades stations, Kerrang, Q Radio, Planet Rock, Real XS, Xfm and Team Rock all playing rock, "indie" or male-leaning pop of some form or another, and all competing for an audience that's notoriously hard to monetise.

The harsh reality is not all can survive. It'll be interesting to see which do.
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Old 13-04-2013, 15:12
hanssolo
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There simply isn't the demand from advertisers for so many male-oriented music stations in the UK. We will shortly have Absolute, Absolute Classic Rock, the Absolute decades stations, Kerrang, Q Radio, Planet Rock, Real XS, Xfm and Team Rock all playing rock, "indie" or male-leaning pop of some form or another, and all competing for an audience that's notoriously hard to monetise.

The harsh reality is not all can survive. It'll be interesting to see which do.
Global seem to have put Classic, Heart and Capital above investment in XFM (now slowly being removed from DAB muxes) and Arrow.
Absolute is just above the water with support from TIML.

So there seems now to be Teamrock and Bauer going head to head with radio, a bit of TV and magazine publishing.

Perhaps "Metal Hammer" radio might be a better name for the teamrock radio station as it has a long tradition of Rock magazine publishing in Europe
However Bauer's magazines seem to beat it, especially Q whose radio station is still going but never got many listeners.
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Old 13-04-2013, 15:58
hanssolo
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According to Mediaweek the mags are making two million gross profit so a 10 million price tag is not that far away.
So Teamrock will have to pay back the 10m funds and pay for the station using the two million gross profit from the magazines and any extra from radio sponsors?
Might be tight but possible?
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Old 13-04-2013, 16:27
MSB
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Will TeamRock be buying out Real XS?
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Old 13-04-2013, 16:51
hanssolo
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Will TeamRock be buying out Real XS?
They have been trying since July 2011!
http://www.thedrum.com/news/2011/07/...ck-radio-brand
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Old 13-04-2013, 17:35
hanssolo
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Ronnie Wood has been interviewed by John Myers about getting a third Sony nomination for his radio show, will John try to get him to move from Absolute CR to Teamrock?
http://onegoldensquare.com/2013/04/r...tful-surprise/
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Old 13-04-2013, 17:46
James30
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As with most Radio station launches, this will be another which will have massive coverage with good intentions in the programming etc.

After the launch, the cost stripping begins and which results in dumbing down, ending up with another 'jukebox'
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Old 14-04-2013, 11:15
Alan Thew
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I hear Bauer feel very threatened by this venture, having just bought Planet Rock.
I don't understand. Why have Bauer then agreed to reduce the bitrate on Planet Rock? If they had stayed at 112k, there would have been no room for TeamRock to fit on the multiplex, whatever Absolute 80s did. I know bits cost money, but surely worth it to keep your number one competitor off the platform?
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Old 14-04-2013, 11:42
Alan Thew
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By the end of is year dab will be full of mono stations most of which are just simulcasts of stations all ready on FM.
Actually the stations which survive in stereo on DAB are largely the ones which are available in stereo anyway, nationally or at least regionally, on FM (the BBC nationals, Classic FM, Absolute, lots of local stations and things like Smooth and XFM). It's a shame that those digital stations which really do enhance choice, because they can't be got on FM, are largely the ones languishing in mono (BBC 4 Extra, Absolute decades, Planet Rock, Kerrang, Jazz FM and so on).

It could be done one of 2 ways, convert existing FM station to it, thus giving non comparable sets the choice of still having the station available via FM
That sounds to me like an eminently practical solution. Virtually all DAB sets also have FM, so if the national stations available on FM were switched to DAB+ first, no one would lose access to them. And if the digital-only stations stayed on plain DAB, no one would lose access to them either. There must be a flaw in this plan because a niggling part of my brain knows that there's absolutely zero chance of this good solution actually happening.
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Old 14-04-2013, 12:29
kev
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I don't understand. Why have Bauer then agreed to reduce the bitrate on Planet Rock?
Saves them money doesn't it.

We really do need Digital 2 sooner rather than later though. Complete change to five years ago when Digital 1 was empty and there was still the prospect of 4 digital launching!
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Old 14-04-2013, 13:05
Alan Thew
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Saves them money doesn't it.
Yes, it does, but at the cost of creating for themselves a new competitor which otherwise wouldn't even have been able to get on the air. We can only guess how much of a saving the reduction in bitrate will make as a proportion of PR's total running costs, but if it is, say, 20 per cent, wouldn't that have been a price worth paying? If Planet Rock loses significant audience to the new TeamRock, they've effectively signed their own death warrant.

How long has the concept of 'TeamRock' as a radio station been on the cards? Could Bauer have guessed it would jump into the gap they were creating? If it was foreseeable, and they've basically allowed it to happen, surely that was a serious management miscalculation?
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Old 14-04-2013, 15:22
SouthCity
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Yes, it does, but at the cost of creating for themselves a new competitor which otherwise wouldn't even have been able to get on the air. We can only guess how much of a saving the reduction in bitrate will make as a proportion of PR's total running costs, but if it is, say, 20 per cent, wouldn't that have been a price worth paying? If Planet Rock loses significant audience to the new TeamRock, they've effectively signed their own death warrant.
The cost saving will probably be somewhere between 250k-375k per annum, depending on what bitrate they end up using. Planet Rock made a loss of 236k last year, so the cost saving from reducing the bitrate would have made the station profitable, assuming the same level of turnover.

TeamRock won't be playing much classic rock and they won't be taking spot advertising, so they are not a direct competitor.
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Old 14-04-2013, 18:14
watfordjunction
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How many more rock stations are we going to hear on DAB that last a year or two then they disappear. And whats all this 'team' stuff all the media keep yapping on about, what a horrible name for a radio station.

They would be better of investing in the stations currently and trying to make them at least profitable and safe for the future. Chill been one station...
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Old 14-04-2013, 20:10
Mapperley Ridge
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How many more rock stations are we going to hear on DAB that last a year or two then they disappear. And whats all this 'team' stuff all the media keep yapping on about, what a horrible name for a radio station.

They would be better of investing in the stations currently and trying to make them at least profitable and safe for the future. Chill been one station...
I take it you know very little about John Myers then?
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