[Josh Pinder]

Originally Posted by elasticlove

On the subject, didn't Jay-Z once do that style of album? I think it was about a gangster movie.

I'm not a fan so I haven't heard it, but I'm sure I read about it. Maybe I'll look it up. *sips tea*

Am not sure...again not really a "fan" here tbh.

But i know it has been done before in different genres...and i think if she is allocating time to her music then she can come up with something insane again totally....gang bang is a great indication of how theatrical she musically can be tbh when she experiments so it is possible.

I was thinking in recent terms with Janelle Monae, gorillaz offering these conceptualised storylines within music...Madonna could make it a massive conceptualised "movie" style album....her as lead character and dream up this Noir "Sin City/Batman" style alternative universe. Reuniting perhaps with Patrick Leonard, Pettibone, Stu Price, and work with new people and create something truly brilliant again.

[mrkite77]

Originally Posted by Josh Pinder

That is true id have hated (but also kinda loved) to have seen the internet in that era! I mean opinions galore etc!!!

But even then i dont think the internet truly replicates the full picture of everything! But yeah...the internet may have ignited and burned 1992-93

The internet existed in 1992, here's a variety of usenet postings about madonna in 92.

here.

[Gigi4]

Originally Posted by Josh Pinder

Rock as a direction would be interesting...doesnt have to be "rock" Rock...but it can have Industrial sides to it...some Dance injections into it...i mean Music, American Life and Confessions On A Dance Floor combined guitar/organic live instrumentals with real electronic/pro tools arrangement.

Also as someone pointed out Madonna started in a rock band when she moved to NYC in 1978 in a band called The Breakfast Club (later titled Emmy) before she recorded demos for Sire/Warner Records i believe....and then history was made....she was primarily a dancer then....but found a passion for art/performance and...MUSIC! so it all really stemmed from a rock and dance background initially....and then the steady climb into the mainstream/pop cultural consciousness.

So for her to perhaps rediscover those aspects would be interesting...she is practising a lot of guitar....and on the MDNA tour i think has shown by YT videos her best guitar work yet (with band assitance of course) so i reckon if not next album, a future album will see her rediscover the "Rock" genre again.

Also i would love her to rediscover the "Studio Album as a FIlm SOundtrack" concept again....posted ideas on that in the AT a few days back

If Madonna did rock, it would have to not be the conventional rock but maybe a mix of rock and electronics like Garbage or someone like that. It was fun when she did her "rock" things on her tours at first as a novelty thing, but after awhile it wore thin. I actually love the use of guitar on the MDNA tour. She plays guitar but it's less stereotypically rock than her previous tours, it's softer and more melodic which suits her voice better. I can see her doing softer rock things like shoegaze, but not hard metal or punk stuff.

[Fear of Fours]

Another half empty stadium, Brussels this time. It can hold over 50,000 yet I would guess only about half of that was actually put on sale. It really can't do much for the atmosphere, everyone looks so bored and lifeless. Whilst the empty seats behind the stage are understandable due to the fact that you wouldn't see anything, the floor space and the empty seats to the side really do look awful. She should have swallowed her pride and downsized some of the venues to arenas and played a couple dates in certain cities instead of just one. I've come across a few comments blaming the size of stage for the amount of seats not being put on sale. Obviously the staging can determine how many seats go on sale etc. but it certainly doesn't mean over half a 70,000 stadium not going on sale. She's playing the NIA arena in Birmingham which isn't a great venue when it comes to huge end on staging. If she can fit the stage in Birmingham, or at least alter it so that it does, then she can in other arenas around the world. Maybe she should do what U2 did on their 360° Tour and have the stage in the centre so then she may actually sell out a stadium to its full capacity.

[Boobob]

You seem to be getting allot of pleasure reporting the so called not 'sold out' stats, whoopi doo. It's a few countries that probably are not that bothered about Madonna anymore not the whole fecking world, jeez, so what, the Madonna promoters probably thought more tickets would sell, she could have cancelled, she didn't, more power to her I say. The fans that are there want to see her and she wants to perform for them that's all that matters. BTW she is doing plenty of arenas too. She has a smaller stage for arenas because the stadium one wouldn't fit.

She has some huge concerts coming up in other countries. virtually sold out in USA and has Australia to come. I'm sure this tour will be the biggest of the year financially. i don't think Madonna gives two stuffs about a few countries not selling as well. Lordy!

[50 Cent Rules]

Madonna has grosseed over $150 million from 14 shows alone on this tour

http://www.examiner.com/article/mado...st-14-concerts

Billboard have the full stats on their website! so she is looking at a possible gross of $700 for this entire tour........

[Boobob]

Originally Posted by 50 Cent Rules

Madonna has grosseed over $150 million from 14 shows alone on this tour

http://www.examiner.com/article/mado...st-14-concerts

Billboard have the full stats on their website! so she is looking at a possible gross of $700 for this entire tour........

Ummmmno it's $50 million, this report is wrong

[50 Cent Rules]

No its not. BB have the full stats and on average she has been grossing $10 a night. She has 90 dates to go and they haven't announced the Aussie leg yet.

[Boobob]

Originally Posted by 50 Cent Rules

No its not. BB have the full stats and on average she has been grossing $10 a night. She has 90 dates to go and they haven't announced the Aussie leg yet.

I still think those stats are wrong, she hasn't been grossing and average of $10 million a night. Some of the venues have only been arenas.

[Viridiana]

Originally Posted by Josh Pinder

Madonna is still in the top of her game and in the spotlight like no one else has./[!

LOL this is not true. Why are Madonna fans this deluded?

I have no problem admitting that some bands i'm totally crazy about have seen better days and are not on top of their game. It's life, you cannot be relevant forever. As a fan i will enjoy their music all the same. Why are Madonna fans unable to do get real?
What makes Madonna this days so off putting is exactly the smell of desperation.

[Hit Em Up Style]

Originally Posted by Boobob

Ummmmno it's $50 million, this report is wrong

I posted the figures in the other topic after someone posted them in the appreciation thread. The first few dates of the tour did gross around the region of $50 million because she took between $8 and $12 million a night for those early shows. So she is certainly above $50 million at this moment in time. Don't know if she is exactly on $150 million currently but I would say for certain she is over $100 million.

[Hit Em Up Style]

Originally Posted by Viridiana

LOL this is not true. Why are Madonna fans this deluded?

I have no problem admitting that some bands i'm totally crazy about have seen better days and are not on top of their game. It's life, you cannot be relevant forever. As a fan i will enjoy their music all the same. Why are Madonna fans unable to do get real?
What makes Madonna this days so off putting is exactly the smell of desperation.

Madonna may have seen better days as far as the single charts go but her album was still a success and has performed slightly better than American Life did.

Its true MDNA could have sold more than it so far has, but she did very little promo for it. However the main bit of promo she did do was this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W795W63n7mA

and she was universaly praised for it. So you can be sure that if Madonna had done a massive promo tour like she did Confessions and Hard Candy then this opinion of her flopping would have been very different. When she is out there performing it changes everyone's view point.

So it all depends on what you mean by relevant. Madonna is still having number 1 albums and is still setting tour records. Her TV spot performances when they happen are always met with praise. That to me signals she is relevant otherwise no one would take any notice of her let alone heap praise on her for it.

All this said. I do agree she is no longer at the top of her game, lets face it her peak of fame was way too high to constantly keep, but there is no slowing down for her because she has been doing the same thing for too long and as the Superbowl and the current tour prove, Madonna is still able to perform like she did in 1990. Which I think was Josh's main point.

[ladymoanalot]

Originally Posted by Viridiana

LOL this is not true. Why are Madonna fans this deluded?

I have no problem admitting that some bands i'm totally crazy about have seen better days and are not on top of their game. It's life, you cannot be relevant forever. As a fan i will enjoy their music all the same. Why are Madonna fans unable to do get real?
What makes Madonna this days so off putting is exactly the smell of desperation.

How is she desperate?

she has done no promotion for her album or her tour, most people did not even realise she had a new album or tour.

If it is because she whips her tit out, she has always done these kind of things to be honest.

She does not seem to care about popularity, she just seems to do it because she loves it. She knows she has a established fan base.

If anything I am surprised how un-desperate she is to promote her new works

[Hit Em Up Style]

Originally Posted by ladymoanalot

If anything I am surprised how un-desperate she is to promote her new works

This is a good point. The complete lack of promo for MDNAs album gaves me the impression she didn't like it but I doubt that is the case. Its because she just hasn't promoted it. If she was desperate for hits then she wouldn't have put all her focus on the tour. Instead she would have focused on the album and delayed the tour.

After American Life underperformed she went all out to promote Confessions. She was everywhere and the result was Hung Up being one of her most successful singles ever. The album itself sold over 10 million. She also promoted the hell out of Hard Candy. With MDNA is has all been a bit backwards. It was that W.E film which caused all the problems as Madonna had to re edit it all at the last minute which meant she had little time to focus on the album the way she usually does. The tour was already set to start in May but they could have delayed it all if they really wanted to. She's Madonna!

[Viridiana]

Originally Posted by Hit Em Up Style

So it all depends on what you mean by relevant. .

She has absolutely no impact in pop culture nowdays with the work she does now. That's what i mean by relevant.

The fact she has a massive fan base she collected all through the year does not make her new work relevant in any way or form. She's not on top of her game, this is the same as saying that Paul McCartney or the Rolling Stones are on top of their game and just because they can fill stadiums and make more money.

[Hit Em Up Style]

Originally Posted by Viridiana

She has absolutely no impact in pop culture nowdays with the work she does now. That's what i mean by relevant.

The fact she has a massive fan base she collected all through the year does not make her new work relevant in any way or form. She's not on top of her game, this is the same as saying that Paul McCartney or the Rolling Stones are on top of their game and just because they can fill stadiums and make more money.

You have no idea if she impacts pop culture with her new stuff. Thats all subjective. I mean afterall it was 53 year old Madonna who set that itunes record with MDNA. Not the likes of Adele or Lady Gaga.

Her legacy alone will always make her relevant as well because Madonna lives on in the likes of Rihanna/Katy Perry/Lady Gaga. All of whom cite Madonna as their main idol and influence.

[Viridiana]

Originally Posted by ladymoanalot

How is she desperate?

she has done no promotion for her album or her tour, most people did not even realise she had a new album or tour.

If it is because she whips her tit out, she has always done these kind of things to be honest.

She does not seem to care about popularity, she just seems to do it because she loves it. She knows she has a established fan base.

If anything I am surprised how un-desperate she is to promote her new works

Actually you hit the nail on the head. Clearly Madonna not really that interested in commercial success that can be translated into cold hard cash. Any artist of her caliber with a well managed marketing campaign will have the millions pouring in and no empty seats if that's what they wish.

The problem with Madonna is that she craves popularity on the same terms as she achieved it a was a couple of decades ago, she's like some faded glory always desperately screaming on our faces "have i still got it?" Have i still got it? ". That's extremely off putting and all the bad press she gets, and now she does get the wrong sort of bad press, is the result of this. She can make a fool of herself as much as she wants but she will never be able to compete with the Gaga's of this world now. All this news acts work on a template she created, it's tragic when you feel the need to revisit yourself.

[50 Cent Rules]

Originally Posted by Viridiana

Actually you hit the nail on the head. Clearly Madonna not really that interested in commercial success that can be translated into cold hard cash. Any artist of her caliber with a well managed marketing campaign will have the millions pouring in and no empty seats if that's what they wish.

The problem with Madonna is that she craves popularity on the same terms as she achieved it a was a couple of decades ago, she's like some faded glory always desperately screaming on our faces "have i still got it?" Have i still got it? ". That's extremely off putting and all the bad press she gets, and now she does get the wrong sort of bad press, is the result of this. She can make a fool of herself as much as she wants but she will never be able to compete with the Gaga's of this world now. All this news acts work on a template she created, it's tragic when you feel the need to revisit yourself.

Hasn't Madge always had bad press? I can recall loads of jokes about the Hung Up video but didn't the single sell 10 million copies?

People have always made fun of her.

[Viridiana]

Originally Posted by Hit Em Up Style

You have no idea if she impacts pop culture with her new stuff. Thats all subjective. I mean afterall it was 53 year old Madonna who set that itunes record with MDNA. Not the likes of Adele or Lady Gaga.

Her legacy alone will always make her relevant as well because Madonna lives on in the likes of Rihanna/Katy Perry/Lady Gaga. All of whom cite Madonna as their main idol and influence.

I never said Madonna is not a relevant artist. Or even that her past work is irrelevant today. The other poster said that Madonna is at the top of her game, and that's simply not true. That's fan delusion of the worst kind. I just wonder why is it so wrong to admit that the artist you love is past it's prime.

[Viridiana]

Originally Posted by 50 Cent Rules

Hasn't Madge always had bad press? I can recall loads of jokes about the Hung Up video but didn't the single sell 10 million copies?

People have always made fun of her.

Madonna always had bad press. But for most of her career she clearly had the right kind of bad press. The kind that when the press call you the anti-christ you will have kids pouring in to buy your records.

Honestly, sometimes i wonder if actually cringe is her new thing. No one can be that unaware. Maybe she does want the world to cringe , maybe the cringe it's a new form of being irreverent. And people like me are just being taking in, the exact same way that a lot of people that were outraged by her antics back in the day.

[N3dSt4rk]

Because she is over 50 and thinks she is 18

[50 Cent Rules]

Originally Posted by Viridiana

Madonna always had bad press. But for most of her career she clearly had the right kind of bad press. The kind that when the press call you the anti-christ you will have kids pouring in to buy your records.

Honestly, sometimes i wonder if actually cringe is her new thing. No one can be that unaware. Maybe she does want the world to cringe , maybe the cringe it's a new form of being irreverent. And people like me are just being taking in, the exact same way that a lot of people that were outraged by her antics back in the day.

Or maybe she is making a statement about peoples perception of age? as in ''why should I stop just because you say so''? sort of thing?

That seems more likely. Anyway I started this thread off the back of the nasty comments people were leaving under the articles about her on DS. Yesterday however it became aware that it was just someone trolling with multiple accounts and the moderators had to remove all the comments under the Vogue suing article as a result. So my question has been answered. It was just a sad few people with multiple names who had a big problem with Madonna.

[Josh Pinder]

Originally Posted by Gigi4

If Madonna did rock, it would have to not be the conventional rock but maybe a mix of rock and electronics like Garbage or someone like that. It was fun when she did her "rock" things on her tours at first as a novelty thing, but after awhile it wore thin. I actually love the use of guitar on the MDNA tour. She plays guitar but it's less stereotypically rock than her previous tours, it's softer and more melodic which suits her voice better. I can see her doing softer rock things like shoegaze, but not hard metal or punk stuff.

Totally...i had in my head a kinda garbage style tonally...branch into intense Trippy/Electronica elements....i reckon it will be brilliant if she ventured out and explored this territory in the future would be epic.

And Viridiana i am not deluded...yes Madonna is my all time favourite artist and idol of mine....but what i was saying was that Madonna whenever she does anything is always in the centre....like Hit Em Up Style posted...the Superbowl was the only promo for MDNA...and it was the most watched TV event of all time with that performance alone Regardless, Madonna still courts attention and performance-wise she is still on top...no one is like her...and her legacy has paved the way for so so many artists/performers out there right now and will continue to do so.

As to whether her most recent ventures have made impact and are as you say "relevant" is how you define relevance and may stil need to be taken into consideration in the future. But her itunes record was from MDNA, her box office stats are setting new records for world tours...and the fact she will be 54 next month and still doing what she does suggests to me that Madonna most definitely is on top of her game.

Yes when she was at her peak(s) no one can compare...and still cannot compare! But if this is Madonna not at a peak then it speaks volumes.

[boddism]

Originally Posted by Viridiana

LOL this is not true. Why are Madonna fans this deluded?

I have no problem admitting that some bands i'm totally crazy about have seen better days and are not on top of their game. It's life, you cannot be relevant forever. As a fan i will enjoy their music all the same. Why are Madonna fans unable to do get real?
What makes Madonna this days so off putting is exactly the smell of desperation.

been a Madonna fan for almost 30 years (yup- Im old!)

LOT of denial happening at the mo. I dont think the problem is her music, the album has had reasonable critical reception (it IS a bit pedestrian, but generally I dont think the music is the main problem at the mo)

I fail to see this obsession with "gang bang" saving her... Im sorry but the "gangster"/bitch thing has been done a billion times, and what more YEARS ago. when I heard Gang Bang it made me think of "Kill Bill"- a film from 2003 (!!) That whole thing is NOT new or original.

Whats gone wrong is partly a mix of aging, being off the scene for a crucial 4 years (the WRONG 4 years) allowing others to claim her throne, utter complacency by madge & her management team, crappy promotion of her music & a lack of clearly thought out imaging for this new era. when you're 53, it is NOT "business" as usual. Madonna seems to think she can act like she's still in her 30's forever- she cant!!

Im not suggesting she goes all sensible, its not her, but you can do sexy in your 50's (Cher did "Believe" at 52, looked great and sexy & the song was a big hit )

age does not have to be your enemy, but needs to be dealt with carefully. Theres nothing to say a slow decline for madge is inevitable, shes a bright woman & has surviced in the industry for 30 years by being smart & innovative, she doesnt have to stop being this.

I want Madonna the innovator back, this is probably a vain hope...

[Nyota]

There's a totally random comment on the Hyde Park gig thread about how Madonna should put her saggy nipples away. The hate is most certainly a lot more vicious than it ever was, and much more rampant..but WHY? I honestly don't get it. Madonna is very easy to ignore (compared to some) if you don't like her.

Edit to say: People criticising her peformances, music, and the direction she's gone is isn't anything I'd call hate. I'd say all that is fair game, as we are all entitled to opinions. Hate of the needless sort, to me, is the sort of comment I pointed out in my first paragraph.