[Shawshank_Steve]

'tis indeed a great show. No spoilers but I just loved the scene with Gus towards the end of Season 4. Absolutely gobsmacking fantastic scene. Had to rewind and watch it again. It was the way you think something, then something else and then WTF????

The UK should be ashamed of itself having only picked up the first two series for Broadcast. I guess some might say it's pro-drugs but I think it's anything but. It's a black, witty and fantastic excercise into brilliant characters is what it is and one of the best things on TV IMHO.

[Pirouette.]

Originally Posted by ACU

I only started watching BB a couple of months ago. Watched the first 4 seasons, great show. I am a bit miffed at the way AMC are handling this final season. The first part (6 or 7 episodes) will be this year, and the final 6/7 episodes will be next year. They should have just aired the whole season in one run.

It is a bit annoying but I know I'm going to be devastated when it does finish so at least this way the series lasts longer

Originally Posted by welshblob

Yes although can Hank really be putting the pieces together this early on in the half season? I wonder if Hank will work it out for the cliffhanger at the end of this half season or that will be pushed into the next?

Also thought it was interesting that Hank said the laptops disk was encrypted and so it was highly unlikely that they would have got anything from it. If they had just left the laptop then they wouldn't have got the cayman islands bank account no.s .... or at least got them at this point.

Rob

I actually think that 'he was under my nose the whole time' was more for the audience than it meaning Hank knows. Dean Norris who plays Hank said that he doesn't suspect Walt at the end of the last series, so it'd be quite a jump to suspect him so soon. I'm sort of expecting him to find out in the 7th or 8th episode of this run. I think it'll be before the next 'season' because the fall out will be so huge it'll need a lot of time dedicated to it.


It was great to see so much Mike this episode, more scenes with him and Hank would be fantastic. I also loved the scene with him and Kayleigh playing Hungry Hungry Hippos- signifying his greed maybe?- immediately followed by him being absolute badass in the next scene. Talk about contrast

Aaand Walt is still being really creepy with Skyler, his kissing her at the end made me feel so awkward for her!

Next week previews-
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh0t0Tm8ovI
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfCYEyZb_i8

[Killary45]

How many people noticed that Lydia (Jackie Onassis) was part of the Madrigal team that met the DEA?

[Pirouette.]

Originally Posted by Killary45

How many people noticed that Lydia (Jackie Onassis) was part of the Madrigal team that met the DEA?

I hadn't actually, I usually miss all sorts on first watch, I'll look out for this on my second viewing. She's an interesting one- her, Mike, Walt and Jesse working together is going to be....turbulant!

[ellie1997]

The scene where Jesse broke down after finding the (fake) ricin in the roomba was so incredibly well done and so touching. I'm so glad this series is back in my life.

[Ghost World]

If this season continues as it has started, I can definitely see Jonathan Banks ending up with an Emmy nom.

Originally Posted by Killary45

How many people noticed that Lydia (Jackie Onassis) was part of the Madrigal team that met the DEA?

I know some people missed it, but you were certainly supposed to notice that.

This shot in particular, where the camera focuses on her for a good few seconds.

[Killary45]

I should own up that I did not see it on first viewing. I read about it on the The Slate.com BB forum led by Matt Yglesias. That forum is a bit annoying but it does contain some good information and theories.

[LolaSvelt]

I can't believe Lydia is Laura Fraser. I thought she looked familiar. She kind of reminds me of Mia Kirshner here.

[Jamesthethird]

Originally Posted by Pirouette.

It was great to see so much Mike this episode, more scenes with him and Hank would be fantastic. I also loved the scene with him and Kayleigh playing Hungry Hungry Hippos- signifying his greed maybe?- immediately followed by him being absolute badass in the next scene. Talk about contrast ]

I thought it was just meant to show him having a soft spot for kids, hence him finding a reason to keep the lady alive at the end (against his better judgement).

[barracuda91]

Like so many people here, I have just caught up with watching the previous seasons; finished Season 4 this evening and now fully up-to-date with the show. I agree with the sentiments on how agonising it's going to be to have to wait weekly for an episode, going to be tough!

I'd like to just talk about the show as a whole for a bit, it's annoying it was only this year I began watching the show and have missed out on a lot of talk and what people think about it. I agree with the poster who said it gets better each season. I enjoyed the first two seasons but I didn't love the show until Season 3, that's where it really kicked off for me. Season 4 was just brilliant as well - that final scene with Gus When he walked out, I was like "what the frell, how did he survive that without a scratch"...

I'm also fairly surprised to discover that Skyler doesn't seem to be a character many people like or care for. Granted, I haven't done too much reading, apart from IMDb, which is full of nut-jobs, particularly on Breaking Bad's forum. For me, she is one of my favourite characters. I think she's pretty badass. I'm not really a fan of Walt; sometimes I root for him, most times I don't like him. I liked it when Skyler didn't put up with his crap, and would say things to him that I myself would've wanted to say to him. Of course now, that doesn't look like she will continue to be so strong, she is definitely living in fear, and it's amazing to see that transformation.

The first two episodes have been fantastic. Great to have so much Mike and seeing how Walter has become quite creepy, reminding Skyler about Ted, almost as though to make her feel she is the bad person in all of this. Brilliant stuff to watch and superb acting from all as usual.

Originally Posted by Killary45

How many people noticed that Lydia (Jackie Onassis) was part of the Madrigal team that met the DEA?

I didn't notice that! Thanks for that. Will definitely be interesting to see how she plays a part in all of this. I had no idea that was Laura Fraser, she does a good American accent

[Ataraxia]

Originally Posted by Pirouette.

I actually think that 'he was under my nose the whole time' was more for the audience than it meaning Hank knows.

It probably was for us more than anything your right, but as 'welshblob' mentioned when Hank says about the fact they probably wouldn't have got anything from it anyway, i did think surely theres hackers out there who could decrypt it and he could be covering, but again...Hank would definitely not be as calm if he knew the truth.

Originally Posted by Killary45

How many people noticed that Lydia (Jackie Onassis) was part of the Madrigal team that met the DEA?

Completely missed it, cheers.

Originally Posted by Jamesthethird

I thought it was just meant to show him having a soft spot for kids, hence him finding a reason to keep the lady alive at the end (against his better judgement).

Yeah. What happened to no half measures!

[Pirouette.]

Originally Posted by Jamesthethird

I thought it was just meant to show him having a soft spot for kids, hence him finding a reason to keep the lady alive at the end (against his better judgement).

Oh yes, he loves kids and his family (though he was willing to run out on them in the last ep wasn't he- unless he'd take them with him?), I just read into everything in this show because it's so layered

Originally Posted by barracuda91

I'm also fairly surprised to discover that Skyler doesn't seem to be a character many people like or care for. Granted, I haven't done too much reading, apart from IMDb, which is full of nut-jobs, particularly on Breaking Bad's forum. For me, she is one of my favourite characters. I think she's pretty badass. I'm not really a fan of Walt; sometimes I root for him, most times I don't like him. I liked it when Skyler didn't put up with his crap, and would say things to him that I myself would've wanted to say to him. Of course now, that doesn't look like she will continue to be so strong, she is definitely living in fear, and it's amazing to see that transformation.

There is a strange amount hate for Skyler, isn't there, I don't really see it because although she's made bad decisions (like everyone in the show really), others have done far worse and she's been thrown into it more than anyone else. I do still root for Walt though, even though he's becoming harder and harder to like!

[barracuda91]

Originally Posted by Pirouette.

There is a strange amount hate for Skyler, isn't there, I don't really see it because although she's made bad decisions (like everyone in the show really), others have done far worse and she's been thrown into it more than anyone else. I do still root for Walt though, even though he's becoming harder and harder to like!

I think that's what's great about the show; that people can still root for characters who have done really bad things, but then in one episode you can change your mind. I liked Gus, and sometimes I was rooting for him in Season 4 but at the end, I was wanting Walt to kill him! It's funny how we, or at least I, oscillate between rooting for and against some characters depsite knowing them for so long.

[Ghost World]

Originally Posted by barracuda91

I'm also fairly surprised to discover that Skyler doesn't seem to be a character many people like or care for.

A lot of fans get annoyed with the "disapproving wife" character. It doesn't matter that she's in the right, as an audience we want to see Heisenberg (or Tony Soprano, or whoever) continue to do what they do.

I don't have a problem with the character at all, but I can kind of understand why people don't like her.

[OnDatKryptonite]

Originally Posted by Ghost World

A lot of fans get annoyed with the "disapproving wife" character. It doesn't matter that she's in the right, as an audience we want to see Heisenberg (or Tony Soprano, or whoever) continue to do what they do.

I don't have a problem with the character at all, but I can kind of understand why people don't like her.

To be fair I think the majority of us stopped sympathising with her when she started screwing Ted, let alone when she went right up to Walt's face and said "I'm f--king Ted." Walt might be a nasty piece of crap but she's a wife who cheated on her cancer ridden and dying husband with her boss and is unrepentant about it. That she then almost got them all killed last season because she gave away Walt's money to Beneke without asking Walt at all only made things worse.

[Jamesthethird]

Originally Posted by Ghost World

A lot of fans get annoyed with the "disapproving wife" character. It doesn't matter that she's in the right, as an audience we want to see Heisenberg (or Tony Soprano, or whoever) continue to do what they do.

I don't have a problem with the character at all, but I can kind of understand why people don't like her.

This is why I dislike the character, she is the stereotype of the moany American housewife, always gurning over everything. Although she never talked to him about her problems just sulked and threw him out etc etc

[barracuda91]

Originally Posted by OnDatKryptonite

To be fair I think the majority of us stopped sympathising with her when she started screwing Ted, let alone when she went right up to Walt's face and said "I'm f--king Ted." Walt might be a nasty piece of crap but she's a wife who cheated on her cancer ridden and dying husband with her boss and is unrepentant about it. That she then almost got them all killed last season because she gave away Walt's money to Beneke without asking Walt at all only made things worse.

See, I was actually glad she slept with Ted. Her confession to Walt left me with a big grin on my face in response to him saying all-smiles “honesty is the best policy”. Ultimately, Walt gave her no choice. He refused her demands for a separation and remained at the house, acting as though nothing had happened, embarrassing her in front of the police. She was astounded and frustrated that all of this was happening, nothing she seemed to say or do would change Walter’s mind. I think she thought the only way she could get through to Walt, to make him understand and actually listen to her, was to sleep with Ted, someone Walt seemed quite intimidated by previously. And it worked, as soon as she told him, you could see the impact those words had one Walter; she had finally gotten through to him. This is my personal perspective on it. I know others look at it from different ways, but for me, this is how I interpreted Skyler’s actions and that’s why I don’t mind that she did what she did.

As for getting all of them almost killed, I can’t entirely blame Skyler for that. Of course, she is partly at fault here, but then so is Walt. He assured her that him and the family were not in any danger, and led her to believe there was going to be a healthy income for many months, raking in millions of dollars. She probably thought that the $600,000+, although a large amount of money, was only a small amount compared to what they were going to have soon.

I can't defend everything she does. As Pirouette said, she has made bad decisions, but for me, not so bad and so plentiful that it makes me lose sympathy for her.

[OnDatKryptonite]

Originally Posted by barracuda91

See, I was actually glad she slept with Ted. Her confession to Walt left me with a big grin on my face in response to him saying all-smiles “honesty is the best policy”. Ultimately, Walt gave her no choice. He refused her demands for a separation and remained at the house, acting as though nothing had happened, embarrassing her in front of the police. She was astounded and frustrated that all of this was happening, nothing she seemed to say or do would change Walter’s mind. I think she thought the only way she could get through to Walt, to make him understand and actually listen to her, was to sleep with Ted, someone Walt seemed quite intimidated by previously. And it worked, as soon as she told him, you could see the impact those words had one Walter; she had finally gotten through to him. This is my personal perspective on it. I know others look at it from different ways, but for me, this is how I interpreted Skyler’s actions and that’s why I don’t mind that she did what she did.

As for getting all of them almost killed, I can’t entirely blame Skyler for that. Of course, she is partly at fault here, but then so is Walt. He assured her that him and the family were not in any danger, and led her to believe there was going to be a healthy income for many months, raking in millions of dollars. She probably thought that the $600,000+, although a large amount of money, was only a small amount compared to what they were going to have soon.

I can't defend everything she does. As Pirouette said, she has made bad decisions, but for me, not so bad and so plentiful that it makes me lose sympathy for her.

Caveats can be applied but the bottom line is SHE CHEATED ON HER HUSBAND WHO IS DYING OF CANCER. She wanted to separate FROM A MAN WHO FATHERED HER CHILDREN WHO IS DYING OF CANCER. She kicked out a man DYING OF CANCER and made him find his own apartment while he's meant to be paying for his treatment and and supporting the family also. Skylar basically turned into a selfish bitch more concerned about her own lifestyle being maintained while ignoring the larger issue HER HUSBAND IS DYING AND HE SHOULD BE PRIORITY NUMBER ONE. So in light of that, she is pretty much a bitch.
Walt gave her no choice? How about her, you know, moving out herself and moving in with Ted rather than expecting Walt to pay the bills on a house he can't live in? The whole reason Walt got into meth was to provide for his family long after he is dead and in return for risking his life to make them all millionaires, she chooses to bang her boss while HER HUSBAND IS DYING? I think as much as Walt is a bastard, he's on a time limit to do what he has to do in his eyes. Skylar could have waited until he had dropped dead and ran off with Ted but she didn't, she broke her martial vows to piss off her husband because he wouldn't let him put him over a barrel WHILE HE TRIES TO LIVE WITH CANCER. The whole cancer issue to me is one that seems to be getting forgotten.

Then she took the same ill gotten gains she has put Walt over a barrel for making illicitly to clear up her boss' tax problems. Money she didn't earn that she argued shouldn't have even been in the house that she took without asking. That's theft, plain and simple. In turn, she nearly got them all killed trying to solve a problem that wasn't on the family and only implicated her because she cooked the books to do a favour to the guy she was banging who, lets not forget, did have a family own his own. She has been nothing but trouble and hardly comforting to a guy who is literally dying to try make things ideal for his family once he does die.

She created a 600k problem that nearly got her family killed because she cooked the books for the married boss she was banging to get back at her dying husband because he wouldn't move out and separate from her when he needed stability and support while he suffers and waits to die while working to make her millions... I really don't see how she's got any good qualities to her either.

[barracuda91]

As I said, it’s a matter of perspective. Don’t worry, I’m not here to cause any arguments, just wanted to share my thoughts on why I think Skyler isn’t as bad as lots of others think. I will just say that if it wasn’t for Skyler, Walter probably wouldn’t even be alive now, or at least would be very close to death. She had to convince him to take the treatment. Walt was a very weak man then and it’s been amazing to see his transformation into a much stronger, more controlling person, whilst now it seems Skyler is not as strong as she was at the beginning.

Skyler was extremely supportive of Walt when he was diagnosed and stayed with him all through the tough times with the surgery and treatment, through to when he was told he was in remission, throwing him a party because she and his family were so happy that he was doing well. For me, I don’t think Walt being terminally ill excuses his behaviour or that it means Skyler should be the good wife. I don’t think Skyler should sit around being the dutiful wife when she can see who Walt has become, having a very controlling and manipulative nature. Why should she have just accepted how disrespectful he was being to her; it was a means to get through to him and show how much she is hurt. I don’t think Skyler ever had real feelings for Ted, she was just using him, which of course is a shame for Ted.

I also believe that what started as providing for his family has transitioned into more of a power thing for Walt; it’s become less about his family to me. I thought it was very interesting what someone said on IMDb, that Walt seems to care more about Jesse now than his family and wonder what would happen if he had to choose between his family and Jesse. I would really love to see that and somewhat agree with that view, I think Walt definitely cares more about Jesse than Skyler, perhaps evenly with his children. I think Skyler is still trying to protect her family; getting Ted to pay his taxes would’ve avoided her name being brought into the investigation. And as I had said, I can’t defend everything she has done, if she hadn’t cooked the books then she wouldn’t have been in that situation in the first place.

Anyway, I have written too much I think But just to reiterate, I'm not trying to argue or anything, just throwing a different perspective into the discussion

[OnDatKryptonite]

Originally Posted by barracuda91

As I said, it’s a matter of perspective. Don’t worry, I’m not here to cause any arguments, just wanted to share my thoughts on why I think Skyler isn’t as bad as lots of others think. I will just say that if it wasn’t for Skyler, Walter probably wouldn’t even be alive now, or at least would be very close to death. She had to convince him to take the treatment. Walt was a very weak man then and it’s been amazing to see his transformation into a much stronger, more controlling person, whilst now it seems Skyler is not as strong as she was at the beginning.

Skyler was extremely supportive of Walt when he was diagnosed and stayed with him all through the tough times with the surgery and treatment, through to when he was told he was in remission, throwing him a party because she and his family were so happy that he was doing well. For me, I don’t think Walt being terminally ill excuses his behaviour or that it means Skyler should be the good wife. I don’t think Skyler should sit around being the dutiful wife when she can see who Walt has become, having a very controlling and manipulative nature. Why should she have just accepted how disrespectful he was being to her; it was a means to get through to him and show how much she is hurt. I don’t think Skyler ever had real feelings for Ted, she was just using him, which of course is a shame for Ted.

I also believe that what started as providing for his family has transitioned into more of a power thing for Walt; it’s become less about his family to me. I thought it was very interesting what someone said on IMDb, that Walt seems to care more about Jesse now than his family and wonder what would happen if he had to choose between his family and Jesse. I would really love to see that and somewhat agree with that view, I think Walt definitely cares more about Jesse than Skyler, perhaps evenly with his children. I think Skyler is still trying to protect her family; getting Ted to pay his taxes would’ve avoided her name being brought into the investigation. And as I had said, I can’t defend everything she has done, if she hadn’t cooked the books then she wouldn’t have been in that situation in the first place.

Anyway, I have written too much I think But just to reiterate, I'm not trying to argue or anything, just throwing a different perspective into the discussion

I'm all for that, I'm just arguing my views in contradiction to yours. I think Walt is a total bastard at this point given his treatment of Jesse, not saving Jesse's girlfriend, getting Gale killed to save his own sking, poisoning Brock and getting Hank put in the crossfire because of his own work so he ended up with permanent injuries but I also think Skylar has done a lot to drive Walt into becoming so ruthless and mercenary with her own selfish and stupid antics. While I agree Skylar had reason to take issue with Walt's behaviour, especially after he tried to basically rape her in the kitchen and got fired from his school job with that speech to the students, I also can't help think she should have been a bit more understanding of her husband's behaviour given his illness and it's side effects and in turn perhaps Walt would not be as defensive or hostile as he has became as a result of everything that's happened up to this point.

[barracuda91]

Originally Posted by OnDatKryptonite

I'm all for that, I'm just arguing my views in contradiction to yours. I think Walt is a total bastard at this point given his treatment of Jesse, not saving Jesse's girlfriend, getting Gale killed to save his own sking, poisoning Brock and getting Hank put in the crossfire because of his own work so he ended up with permanent injuries but I also think Skylar has done a lot to drive Walt into becoming so ruthless and mercenary with her own selfish and stupid antics. While I agree Skylar had reason to take issue with Walt's behaviour, especially after he tried to basically rape her in the kitchen and got fired from his school job with that speech to the students, I also can't help think she should have been a bit more understanding of her husband's behaviour given his illness and it's side effects and in turn perhaps Walt would not be as defensive or hostile as he has became as a result of everything that's happened up to this point.

I see where you are coming from in your final point; I understand that perhaps her ignorance and inability to fully understand how Walt felt about his cancer may have contributed somewhat to Walt's actions towards her. I think it was when she asked Ted why he did what he did and his response about his family that eventually got through to her about what Walter initially set out to do. Maybe it was discovering that who she knew to be a calm, docile, quiet man was leading this double life was a shock to the system, and although gradually managing to accept and deal with it - though not like it - she has now become scared of what Walt has become. I don't think she is a total bitch however, which is what I've seen many people say about her. She's the one who really is trying to protect the family...from the one who is protecting the family

[OnDatKryptonite]

Originally Posted by barracuda91

I see where you are coming from in your final point; I understand that perhaps her ignorance and inability to fully understand how Walt felt about his cancer may have contributed somewhat to Walt's actions towards her. I think it was when she asked Ted why he did what he did and his response about his family that eventually got through to her about what Walter initially set out to do. Maybe it was discovering that who she knew to be a calm, docile, quiet man was leading this double life was a shock to the system, and although gradually managing to accept and deal with it - though not like it - she has now become scared of what Walt has become. I don't think she is a total bitch however, which is what I've seen many people say about her. She's the one who really is trying to protect the family...from the one who is protecting the family

But Skylar hasn't really done much to protect the family as much as try keep the heat off her. She hasn't funneled the money into trust funds or a safehouse away from their own home to run to if things do get hairy. With her giving away the money to Ted to avoid both of them going tom prison for fraud, it has left them broke and seemingly unable to run the garage and handle it's overheads. It's forced Hank back into the meth business he was saving to get out of forging even more dangerous alliances. She hasn't been paying for better treatment for Walt Jr...

It seems she reacted badly to Walt's change in demeanour, sought comfort in the arms of another, bragged about it until she realised her cuckold husband was actually in with the state drug kingpin and was not to trifled with any further. She then ended up in trouble for cooking her boss' books while scolding Walt for treating his own son to a decent car and then left the family broke and under the threat of termination because she gave her boss money that was not hers to handle a problem she made that cost Walt and almost the entire family. The real problem is she and Walt have been forced apart by his choices but drawn back together by Skylar's mistakes, whether Beneke screwing his wife forcing Walt to try impress his authority further and becoming more extreme or causing him to meltdown in the crawl space when he thought death was inevitable.

[Ghost World]

Skyler ****ed Ted after she'd found out about the cellphone, after she'd found out that Walt was a meth cook, after she'd kicked him out and told him she wanted a divorce. And he was in remission, for what that's worth.

Cancer or no cancer, let's not pretend Walt didn't deserve that.

As for cooking the books, Skyler only paid off Ted because an investigation would have led the IRS to the car wash and further trouble. It wasn't an entirely selfish act.

I'm not saying Skyler's an angel, but relatively speaking compared to the drug kingpin murder and child-poisoner she's married to, she's Mary Poppins.

[OnDatKryptonite]

Originally Posted by Ghost World

Skyler ****ed Ted after she'd found out about the cellphone, after she'd found out that Walt was a meth cook, after she'd kicked him out and told him she wanted a divorce. And he was in remission, for what that's worth.

Cancer or no cancer, let's not pretend Walt didn't deserve that.

As for cooking the books, Skyler only paid off Ted because an investigation would have led the IRS to the car wash and further trouble. It wasn't an entirely selfish act.

I'm not saying Skyler's an angel, but relatively speaking compared to the drug kingpin murder and child-poisoner she's married to, she's Mary Poppins.

I'd argue she's caused more trouble than she has helped resolve.

"Oh, by the way, I know you still have cancer but it's in remission, I want a divorce anyway!"

She wants to abandon her husband who basically sacrificed his greater goals when he found out he was bound to have a kid, his old science partner has went onto have greater success based off his work... I can't help thinking the worst think Walt ever did was pick up a busty waitress rather than someone as intelligent as him like his old partner did. Someone perhaps with the intelligence and compassion to not come down on someone who just found out he has a short time to live like a ton of bricks rather than giving them the space to deal with their crap until they asked for help.

If Skylar had not cooked the books for Ted, there would not have been an issue to be paid off nor anything for her to be blackmailed into giving him to Ted so the paper trail didn't lead back to her. If she'd stuck by her man a lot of trouble could have been avoided. Walt's "fugue state" excuse was admittedly weak and started bells ringing but Skylar harrassing a man suffering from cancer was not exactly hugely supportive.

I honestly feel Skylar and her sister are the weakest characters and least likeable.

[Jamesthethird]

Originally Posted by Ghost World

Skyler ****ed Ted after she'd found out about the cellphone, after she'd found out that Walt was a meth cook, after she'd kicked him out and told him she wanted a divorce. And he was in remission, for what that's worth.

Cancer or no cancer, let's not pretend Walt didn't deserve that.

As for cooking the books, Skyler only paid off Ted because an investigation would have led the IRS to the car wash and further trouble. It wasn't an entirely selfish act.

I'm not saying Skyler's an angel, but relatively speaking compared to the drug kingpin murder and child-poisoner she's married to, she's Mary Poppins.

See this is where people's opinion becomes split on Skyler.

You appear to be saying her doing all that was justified because Walt was a meth producer, but I, along with many others, don't consider Walt's meth production to be that bad a thing, especially considering his circumstances.

I don't think anyone considers Walt's actions today justifiable, but I was on his side right up to the child poisoning even through the Jade thing and the killing of the drug dealers.