That seems totally (morally) wrong to me. If it is a NewCo starting from the bottom (or nearly as good as), then it seems perverse to land it with "the sins of the fathers".

EDit: It seems like a punishment.

If they want to keep the history.....

Neil Doncaster live on Sportsound, confirms EBT investigation is continuing and has to be completed.

That sounds like the start of a new version of the Celtic song...

A ban for one transfer window (this one) could be a compromise but highly unlikely.

Wigan sign Fraser Fyvie from Aberdeen for a fee believed to be around £500k.

I don't see how the new company can be punished.

What perhaps could and should happen is punishment to the old company could be applied such as stripping of titles and cup wins.

But that is really irrelevant for the new company, who should be granted SFA membership, and be allowed to sign players the same as any other club.

they have already been relegated three divisions, fined 160k, half their team have been allowed to move to other clubs free of charge, now they are to either stop playing football altogether or accept a ban on buying players for a year, ohh, and there are hoards of foaming at the mouth opposition hoping to have their previous wins stripped away into their own trophy cabinets.

a tad harsh dont you think?

I think some people need to step back, calm down and look at this calmly and with some sort of objectivity.

Looks like a which hunt to me, nothing more, nothing less.

I've lost the thread here, then. I thought that the "history" is frozen. NewCo has to create its own new history. If I bought the old Roker Park, I wouldn't suddenly have Sunderland's history.
Last edited by Eater Sundae : 16-07-2012 at 18:43

The NewCo doesn't meet the criteria to receive SFA membership - so they need to inherit the OldCo's membership in order to start the season.

Thats the thing, it is the same club at the same stadium with the same fans and the same bloke managing it.
all Rangers fans know this, as do most everyday people on the street, its only the bitter haters of rangers that wont admit to it being so.

the SFA obviously know this and dont want Rangers to simply be relegated to div 3, they want sanctions in place also as a punishment for the trouble their previous owner caused.

They've not been relegated.

The fine was the maximum the SFA could apply but the punishment didn't fit the crime hence the embargo. The first panel felt only match fixing would be worse.

Players leaving the club is nothing to do with the SFA.

The dual contracts investigation must be completed and punishments issued if the case is proven.

Re the EBT bit - surely if they (the OldCo) are found to be at fault, then any punishment should be metered out to the OldCo. As I understood it, by creating a NewCo, the link to the OldCo was broken. That is why NewCo had to start in div 3, because it is NEW. I posted earlier to try and understand the valuation of the ground etc as sold by D&P to the NewCo, as by being sold to NewCo it seemed to put it out of reach of the creditors of the OldCo.

As above, if it is a NEW Co, then there is no history. Any history stays with OldCo.

If the dual contracts issue is proven then the punishments will probably be titles being stripped rather than any fines for the NewCo - however the NewCo need to inherit the OldCo SFA membership so the history is applied to that membership.

We all know its the same club. A club is more of a spiritual thing, i.e. you can't really touch it. It only exists in peoples minds so to speak.

AFC Wimbledon might be a new club technically, but many of the same people who watched Wimbledon in the top division in the 80s, now watch AFC Wimbledon now.

There Wimbledon became MK Dons keeping the same league place, and players and staff, but it would be silly to claim that MK Dons are now the same club as the old Wimbledon. Infact even MK Dons don't claim that themselves now.

At the end of the day, the fans will claim its the same club, so will media outlets, so will almost everyone else, because it is, the same as I would if Wolves went bankrupt and a new Wolves was set up.

Dundee will not be increasing prices as a result of being 'invited' to the SPL.

At the time though MK Dons had Wimbledon's history - they then agreed to transfer that history in 2007

Nobody has been relegated 3 divisions, as I understand it. RFC is going to be liquidated, and will no longer exist. The SFL have agreed to accept a NewCo, which will use some of the old assets of the OldCo, and will probably have a name which is very similar to the old Rangers. It will also have the same fanbase. But it is still a brand new company. Although the reasons for its emergence are different, the new company will be similar to the new Wimbledon. A brand new company starting at an APPROPRIATE level in the pyramid.

They agreed because they knew it was making them look silly. In the eyes of many MK Dons never had a right to claim any of Wimbledons history as their own, which is why they eventually agreed the transfer of it. Thats the point.

What about OldCo's responsibilities to its creditors? Do they all stay with OldCo or can any pass to NewCo

No, there has been a lot of mis-information from bitter celtic fans in this thread.

It was always the same club, just owned by different companies, in turn owned by different people.

Now there is confusion as what the SFA are doing doesnt "seem" right, that's only the case because you are under the impression it is a new club, it isnt, the same club is owned by a new company, the SFA basically want rangers to agree to pay back all the money it owes to other football clubs in scotland, and agree to a one year transfer embargo, and to accept any punishment the SFA see fit to impose on them for whatever reason without objection.
So basically in 6 months time the SFA might say, "right we aint happy you did this in 2001,we are taking 25 titles from you and giving you a £1 million fine,adn another one year transfer embargo, and Rangers would have to accept it, without argument.

the alternative is to set up Rangers as a totally new club (probably called something else), probably at a new venue, the new club would then need to wait a year, and re-apply as a new club to the SFA for membership.

SFA can't strip any titles - only Scottish Cups.

I dont think legally they do transfer as it was the holding company that owed the money, and the club is an asset of that company that transfered.

But, it seems the SFA want to make the payments owed to other scottish clubs to be payed in order for the holding companies licence to transfer over to the clubs ownership.

they are saying either pay up or you aint playing football.

I think it is only right, i just hope charles greene has pockets deep enough, or is willing to pay it, if not who knows what will happen.

Thanks for that.

So, as well as potential punishments for past misdemeanors (sp?), what if the big HMRC case is lost, for example. Does NewCo have all the potential financial liabilities of the OldCo? If so, it seems to be in a worse financial state than the OldCo, which at least was receiving SPL income.

If the potential liabilities are still as high, then there would be no advantage in OldCo going bust. A buyer could have been found for OldCo if the potential liabilities of NewCo are still the same.

you know what i mean.

the tax thing was with the old company, the club is owned by a new company, so they are unrelated, in that sense, HMRC cant touch the new company or Rangers.

Now, the SFA could say you must pay back ALL debt owed to ALL creditors or no licence, now that would mean the end for Rangers, and its history.
It really would then be over.