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The John James Appreciation Thread (Part 13)


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Old 19-10-2012, 19:05
tooty
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i mean closure in enough is enough now they should either agree to disagree or talk in private sort things out then perhaps their supporters would do the same.
LOL The last thing I would do if I was John is talk to the ex without witnesses there, fodder for the trashy mags is all she would use it for, at least on twitter you see what John actually says rather than the ex's version of what he said
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Old 19-10-2012, 19:07
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LOL The last thing I would do if I was John is talk to the ex without witnesses there, fodder for the trashy mags is all she would use it for, at least on twitter you see what John actually says rather than the ex's version of what he said
Good point Tooty.
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Old 19-10-2012, 19:08
Lena J
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Great post Lena. I'm delighted to see John tweet again, however 'ill-advised'.

Regarding the fame, I get what you're saying but it is undeniably true that when John came out of the house he did some pretty dubious mag shoots and set up a PA schedule ...... even before Josie ran out of the UBB house to join him. So that might suggest he at least thought he might enjoy a shot at some z-list exposure. By now, he probably realises the cost you have to pay for that kind of thing. Happily he doesn't seem to have the right personality for it (that's a compliment btw! )

His recent anger is entirely understandable and consistent with his personality: "USE THE OTHERS, BUT YOU WILL NOT USE ME"!!

That's why I'm not remotely dismayed about him 'not having moved on', as some suggest. Love him or loathe him ..... he's just back to his old argumentative self we watched in the BB house (and pre-BB the Achilles who was reputed to be a keyboard warrior!).
Hi Alex, good to see you stranger.

I also understand his anger and as you rightly point out it's the John we know, so I'm not to worried that he's had a rant.

Unfortunately, I suspect he's given her some column inches for next week....unless of course the thought of a less than flattering video of a 'silver backed gorilla' heaving itself against the bedroom door appearing on youtube is enough to make her think twice. Not exactly 'the girl next door' persona that was peddled in the house, unless you live next to a zoo of course.

As for the PA's, I think he enjoyed them once he got into them although I suspect he would have soon tired of them and they would eventually have run their course.

My understanding is that there was some real interest in him and some deals on the table. Unfortunately, he kept changing agents after getting involved in the 'couple' scenario and the opportunities were lost.
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Old 19-10-2012, 19:16
Lena J
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LOL The last thing I would do if I was John is talk to the ex without witnesses there, fodder for the trashy mags is all she would use it for, at least on twitter you see what John actually says rather than the ex's version of what he said
Spot on there tooty.

I love how his outburst has brought old friends back for a chat.
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Old 19-10-2012, 19:20
bblover
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Spot on there tooty.

I love how his outburst has brought old friends back for a chat.
Ditto,and not only on here.
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Old 19-10-2012, 19:21
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Ditto,and not only on here.
I agree all the threads seem to have come alive the last few days.
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Old 19-10-2012, 19:36
ucra girl
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Good,what is he doing?I remember him talking about becoming a designer

Lol
Here is his twitter.He has had a TV show.His fans on DS disappeared.

https://twitter.com/SuperMarioMugan

Shabby is doing well as wellx
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Old 19-10-2012, 20:05
bblover
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Here is his twitter.He has had a TV show.His fans on DS disappeared.

https://twitter.com/SuperMarioMugan

Shabby is doing well as wellx
A tv show?Wow nothing on the main forum.

Yeah,is she now with a band doing gigs now?
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Old 19-10-2012, 22:02
AlexBB3
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Agree,but tbf to her,she doesn't need to use him for weight stories.
Whether she NEEDS to use him or not, his name was used by NOW in an article based on information sourced from Josie. He believes (rightly in my view) that Josie has some influence over the use of his name in that way.

From 'USE THE OTHERS, BUT YOU WILL NOT USE ME' and his behaviour towards Rachael, I'd say this 'principle' may be something which goes far deeper than Josie for him. No doubt the combination of the two entwined is an especially potent brew!
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Old 19-10-2012, 22:47
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Whether she NEEDS to use him or not, his name was used by NOW in an article based on information sourced from Josie. He believes (rightly in my view) that Josie has some influence over the use of his name in that way.

From 'USE THE OTHERS, BUT YOU WILL NOT USE ME' and his behaviour towards Rachael, I'd say this 'principle' may be something which goes far deeper than Josie for him. No doubt the combination of the two entwined is an especially potent brew!
Oh yeah,she knew by not denying that silly NOW headlines,the reaction it'll createShe outwitted him,and he ran tight into it

Yeah,there are still feeling there,of hate and resentment.
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Old 19-10-2012, 23:13
ucra girl
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Whether she NEEDS to use him or not, his name was used by NOW in an article based on information sourced from Josie. He believes (rightly in my view) that Josie has some influence over the use of his name in that way.

From 'USE THE OTHERS, BUT YOU WILL NOT USE ME' and his behaviour towards Rachael, I'd say this 'principle' may be something which goes far deeper than Josie for him. No doubt the combination of the two entwined is an especially potent brew!
My view thou is he should have contacted NOW by email and rise above Josie. The 'principle' is justified but his reaction would have been to NOW,2 years on,unless there is still emotional attachment thou negative.He needs to learn to place the principle in the right place.
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Old 19-10-2012, 23:16
ucra girl
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A tv show?Wow nothing on the main forum.

Yeah,is she now with a band doing gigs now?
I remember seeing a thread sort of.That is how I knew.
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Old 19-10-2012, 23:18
bblover
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My view thou is he should have contacted NOW by email and rise above Josie. The 'principle' is justified but his reaction would have been to NOW,2 years on,unless there is still emotional attachment thou negative.He needs to learn to place the principle in the right place.
Yeah,maybe next time he won't respond at all,if there is a next one that is.

I remember seeing a thread sort of.That is how I knew.
Oh okay.
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Old 19-10-2012, 23:51
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Whether she NEEDS to use him or not, his name was used by NOW in an article based on information sourced from Josie. He believes (rightly in my view) that Josie has some influence over the use of his name in that way.

From 'USE THE OTHERS, BUT YOU WILL NOT USE ME' and his behaviour towards Rachael, I'd say this 'principle' may be something which goes far deeper than Josie for him. No doubt the combination of the two entwined is an especially potent brew!


I've always thought that the 'USE THE OTHERS, BUT YOU WILL NOT USE ME' quote said a lot more about Johns mind-set than probably anything else we heard him say either during or after BB.
His name was obviously being used to promote the magazine and therefore to promote Josie, either with or without her knowledge or consent, and I think that if the online article had been refuted instead of being retweeted by the 'official' fans (who are in effect Josies employees) then this latest twitter spat may never have occurred.
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Old 20-10-2012, 00:09
bblover
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I've always thought that the 'USE THE OTHERS, BUT YOU WILL NOT USE ME' quote said a lot more about Johns mind-set than probably anything else we heard him say either during or after BB.
His name was obviously being used to promote the magazine and therefore to promote Josie, either with or without her knowledge or consent, and I think that if the online article had been refuted instead of being retweeted by the 'official' fans (who are in effect Josies employees) then this latest twitter spat may never have occurred.
No way?
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Old 20-10-2012, 00:39
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Way
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Old 20-10-2012, 01:13
bblover
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I would think an article like that will be ignored,not retweeted,but they have to retweet everything that has her name in it?
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Old 20-10-2012, 01:23
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I would think an article like that will be ignored,not retweeted,but they have to retweet everything that has her name in it?
I think you'll find that the old adage 'all publicity is good publicity' is the mantra of most minor celebs
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Old 20-10-2012, 01:27
Lindy_Loue
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Book Club Discussion

Okay, have just got in , and before I hit the sack, here are a few thoughts on The Forgotten Waltz.

1 Is Gina truly in love with Sean?

In summary, no, but she thinks she is. Our 'heroine' is I think a rather sad and shallow individual, who routinely seems to place more value on style and money than on people. She initially fancies Sean, when she sees him in that garden at the party.....then when at work, she has the opportunity to identify a management consultant, she is pleased to have the contact with him, mainly to further her career, I think. It's only when she sees him again that she is reminded of the physical attraction. That said, he seems old to her, wears a suit and (shock horror) cuff links. When they are in a relationship she sets about transforming him, getting him to be more 'trendy', eg by riding a bike to work. In a way I think he is a 'trophy relationship' for her. I don't think we ever see her actually knowing him well enough to really love him, nor in fact caring enough about him and his life.

2 Is Gina happy with Sean?

Again, no, not really. It's a bit of a mystery to me that she seems to have a perfectly nice and affectionate husband in Connor, yet she pretty much ignores him. Perhaps to do with his computer addiction? (ahem, some of us may recognise this...) Again, I think this has to do with status. He is described as hairy and not very bright .....doesn't do her any favours in what she believes to be the brave new capitalist world, then!

Basically I see Gina as a sad and silly girl who throws away a perfectly good marriage - or two - in the pursuit of money and status. I don't think Sean loved her, and I don't think she understood this until quite near the end of the period covered by the book.

3 Role of Gina's parents

This calls for a bit of cod psychology! Gina was 'let down' by her alcoholic father, who died early of dementia, not knowing who she was in her early teens. Perhaps her development was arrested then? Or at the very least, she learned not to expect much from a man. This was compounded by her mother's lonely and kind of brave clinging to appearances, always having the lipstick on etc. (I am reminded of an old friend who always freshens up with the saying 'oh well, a squirt - of perfume - hides the dirt' lol ). The Moynihan girls always had to keep up appearances, have a queue of boys after them, etc. This doesn't seem to have encouraged Gina to have much more than a shallow relationship with people, men and women alike.

4 Evolution of Evie's character

Interesting, this. For me the characterisation of Evie is by far the best in the book. I have known children like her, who seemed special and a bit different, and who maybe had some health problems - and I think it's wonderful to see them blossom as they mature.

The sad part, though, is that it seems clear to me by the end that Sean is only with Gina, in his semi-detached way, because he needs someone to help him look after Evie for access purposes. Gina has little confidence or self esteem, so goes along with this even though she knows that her phone rings much less often with calls from him, that he is away more, and so on.....and she knows what that means.

5 Aspirations for wealth

It is interesting to read something set in the context of the recent economic collapse in confidence, in this case in Ireland. I don't think Gina would have stayed with Sean, had they both not needed a base, and been unable to sell her mother's house. And if Gina's career had continued its apparent upward trend, things would have been very different. Sad to see her driving around Ireland setting up drinks promotions .....but very believable.

In summary, I enjoyed this book although I found it somewhat shallow. In fact I think the shallowness was a deliberate reflection of society at that time, as viewed by the author.

And on that note, I'm bushed!!!

Off to bed for me Thanks nyannie, Kay and Augusta for your comments. Come on the rest of you!

Yes, I know we appreciate John and he's fascinating, but this is Book Club Day

Night all, sleep tight

Lindy xx
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Old 20-10-2012, 09:23
augusta92
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Book Club Discussion

Okay, have just got in , and before I hit the sack, here are a few thoughts on The Forgotten Waltz.

1 Is Gina truly in love with Sean?

In summary, no, but she thinks she is. Our 'heroine' is I think a rather sad and shallow individual, who routinely seems to place more value on style and money than on people. She initially fancies Sean, when she sees him in that garden at the party.....then when at work, she has the opportunity to identify a management consultant, she is pleased to have the contact with him, mainly to further her career, I think. It's only when she sees him again that she is reminded of the physical attraction. That said, he seems old to her, wears a suit and (shock horror) cuff links. When they are in a relationship she sets about transforming him, getting him to be more 'trendy', eg by riding a bike to work. In a way I think he is a 'trophy relationship' for her. I don't think we ever see her actually knowing him well enough to really love him, nor in fact caring enough about him and his life.

2 Is Gina happy with Sean?

Again, no, not really. It's a bit of a mystery to me that she seems to have a perfectly nice and affectionate husband in Connor, yet she pretty much ignores him. Perhaps to do with his computer addiction? (ahem, some of us may recognise this...) Again, I think this has to do with status. He is described as hairy and not very bright .....doesn't do her any favours in what she believes to be the brave new capitalist world, then!

Basically I see Gina as a sad and silly girl who throws away a perfectly good marriage - or two - in the pursuit of money and status. I don't think Sean loved her, and I don't think she understood this until quite near the end of the period covered by the book.

3 Role of Gina's parents

This calls for a bit of cod psychology! Gina was 'let down' by her alcoholic father, who died early of dementia, not knowing who she was in her early teens. Perhaps her development was arrested then? Or at the very least, she learned not to expect much from a man. This was compounded by her mother's lonely and kind of brave clinging to appearances, always having the lipstick on etc. (I am reminded of an old friend who always freshens up with the saying 'oh well, a squirt - of perfume - hides the dirt' lol ). The Moynihan girls always had to keep up appearances, have a queue of boys after them, etc. This doesn't seem to have encouraged Gina to have much more than a shallow relationship with people, men and women alike.

4 Evolution of Evie's character

Interesting, this. For me the characterisation of Evie is by far the best in the book. I have known children like her, who seemed special and a bit different, and who maybe had some health problems - and I think it's wonderful to see them blossom as they mature.

The sad part, though, is that it seems clear to me by the end that Sean is only with Gina, in his semi-detached way, because he needs someone to help him look after Evie for access purposes. Gina has little confidence or self esteem, so goes along with this even though she knows that her phone rings much less often with calls from him, that he is away more, and so on.....and she knows what that means.

5 Aspirations for wealth

It is interesting to read something set in the context of the recent economic collapse in confidence, in this case in Ireland. I don't think Gina would have stayed with Sean, had they both not needed a base, and been unable to sell her mother's house. And if Gina's career had continued its apparent upward trend, things would have been very different. Sad to see her driving around Ireland setting up drinks promotions .....but very believable.

In summary, I enjoyed this book although I found it somewhat shallow. In fact I think the shallowness was a deliberate reflection of society at that time, as viewed by the author.

And on that note, I'm bushed!!!

Off to bed for me Thanks nyannie, Kay and Augusta for your comments. Come on the rest of you!

Yes, I know we appreciate John and he's fascinating, but this is Book Club Day

Night all, sleep tight

Lindy xx

I think i agree with all the above Lindy. I didnt particularly like it.
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Old 20-10-2012, 09:34
augusta92
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my computer is playing up........it doesnt want to answer long posts....!!!!.


Re the Book...The Forgotten Waltz.


I think , many of us from this thread are in long term, long standing relationships...and we have a particular view of loyalty and consideration for others... so this book isnt designed to appeal to many of us.

I dont like or have a lot of sympathy, for any woman who deliberately choses to be the other woman, and who lets another family suffer because of it... Its one of my biggest issues with my darling MIL when she chose to kick out my OH natural father, and bring in her new bf.

but I would imagine , it is the perfect book for any woman, who has been in that position, of breaking up a family so she can get her man. And if i look around, there do seem to be an awful lot of women in that position.... And I would imagine that it is these women, and men,,, who are championing this book. At last a book , that is sympathetic and understanding to what it is like to fall in love with a married man......a book that can discuss the issue of children from a previous marriage etc.......


I didnt like the slant or the way things are portrayed...but i can imagine some women might.......


Im in a quandary now with my own brother, who is due to bring his new gf to stay. Do I behave in a civilised way and bite my tounge about the fact that this new gf, gave my brother an excuse to leave his wife....or do i behave as john does....and let rip and tell them both what i really think? Actually this is really a rhetorical question.....I cant really see any purpose in rocking the boat.....but......im not happy with his decision...

If anyone is unhappy in a marriage. to me they should leave first before they start up a new affair...and i do know this is idealistic and naive...and not the way things usually work....But im not sure all this selfishness....is that good for anyone.....I think a few more people should be a bit more considerate at times.

There are huge issues around facts like children from stable 2 parent homes, seem to do so much better at school, and uni, and achieve a lot more than kids from single parent homes....But the minute those facts are mentioned...they are argued down by single parents...who will not have it ...that children from single parent families are disadvantaged in any way shape or form. The whole issue of political correctness is brought in...and what was a fairly simple and indisputable fact ...is ignored....


To be fair here, i am not saying by any manner of means that all children from single parent families are disadvantaged, if the parent makes the effort to support their kids, those kids do do well...But I have seen too many families, especially when the parents initially split up....become almost unable to cope...and where the parents end up having to look after themselves and their own interests more than those of their kids.....and i do think those kids often do suffer....and lose opportunites because of it....

this book is a perfect one for single mums , who may have been in that situation....or men, who have left a wife and family.......!!!
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Old 20-10-2012, 09:53
augusta92
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Whether she NEEDS to use him or not, his name was used by NOW in an article based on information sourced from Josie. He believes (rightly in my view) that Josie has some influence over the use of his name in that way.

From 'USE THE OTHERS, BUT YOU WILL NOT USE ME' and his behaviour towards Rachael, I'd say this 'principle' may be something which goes far deeper than Josie for him. No doubt the combination of the two entwined is an especially potent brew!
yes id agree...it has become a matter of principle....

What fascinates me...is that a lot of John supporters were aware ..of the implications in the week the original article was published...but.....chose to play a game of ignore the obvious and not say anything...


So it took a prompt from NOW magazine and tweets from john to make it public knowledge ...and a discussion point...


So....the original article was ignored...and useless as a publicity or promotional tool.......until JOhn himself got involved...


I do wonder where the interest in JJJ lies?



I've always thought that the 'USE THE OTHERS, BUT YOU WILL NOT USE ME' quote said a lot more about Johns mind-set than probably anything else we heard him say either during or after BB.
His name was obviously being used to promote the magazine and therefore to promote Josie, either with or without her knowledge or consent, and I think that if the online article had been refuted instead of being retweeted by the 'official' fans (who are in effect Josies employees) then this latest twitter spat may never have occurred.



Exactly.........but it wasnt.......so it was designed to do exactly what it did do.

Josie knew just which of JOhns buttons to press...but it does also work in reverse......

HIs anger and twitter outburst, in my opinion, have made Josie look even more of a fool than before. And will make it that much harder for her to gain any crediblity....ever...



Yes in the next few weeks im sure JOsie can use this to her advantage...publicity wise...but....it will be like those fat red bikini eating sausages photo... It wont go away, and will be there haunting her. John made her look ridiculous again....!!!!

Ok he also did the same for himself, but.....he isnt trying to be a z list celeb. Where surely its advantageous to have as many friends as possible, not a whole list of people who are laughing at her....
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Old 20-10-2012, 09:55
augusta92
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Btw after all that,one tiny positive aspect about it,John is alive and watchingNext time he goes in hibernation,we need Now to mention his name again
Good point xx
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Old 20-10-2012, 10:01
kfb
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Lindy and Augusta
I agree with everything you've both said.

Can I just ask?
How easy do you find it to read a first person narration where you are out of sympathy with the character?
It's something we discuss occasionally in my own book group.
I can read about unpleasant, unsympathetic characters and still enjoy a novel when the narrator is the author because you can usually tell whether an author lenjoys writing a character for whatever reason - good or ill.
But a first person narrator with whom I haven't the slightest empathy I find personally difficult.

None of us in our group have ever enjoyed reading Martin Amis on so many fronts - and when I see interviews with him, I understand why. He is such a sneering, arrogant man.
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Old 20-10-2012, 11:53
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So does this mean, like so many 20 to 30 year olds these days appear to be (and yes, Josie is one of those, I would say), she never got away from being a self-absorbed teenager?
Good point - although I've often wondered the same about John; for all his good qualities, he too is fairly self-absorbed and I always saw him as very young, younger than his years (at least emotionally).
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