[Everything Goes]

Nokia have made a £1.1 Billion loss in the last 3 months alone

Sales fell 19% to 7.54bn euros, with smartphone sales falling 34% to 1.54bn euros.

So much for Windows Phone being their saviour. I feel they would have been better doing a mix of WP and Android.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18898121

[finbaar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everything Goes

Nokia have made a £1.1 Billion loss in the last 3 months alone

Sales fell 19% to 7.54bn euros, with smartphone sales falling 34% to 1.54bn euros.

So much for Windows Phone being their saviour. I feel they would have been better doing a mix of WP and Android.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18898121

They should have moved to Android in 2009. It is to late now. Microsoft will buy them at some point in the next few months. They are doomed as a stand-alone company. Just like RIM.

[Zack06]

Nokia should have tried to compete with LG and Samsung by adopting both Windows Phone AND Android. Instead, they've chained themselves to Microsoft and are completely dependent on Windows Phone becoming a market leader which I highly doubt it will.

[finbaar]

They are not being helped by the fact that there current phones will not be updated to WP8.

[c4rv]

Their shares are now junk status, could be an opportunity for somebody willing to take a risk. Even if its just MS buying them out which BTW I really don't think will happen. MS have failed several times being in the phone hardware market and I don't think they are interested anymore in buying into that market. They will be happy partnering other companies instead.

[Quackers]

If they put Android on a Nokia handset i will be at the shop wanting one the day it comes out. I can only hope that's their secret plan b.

[BMR]

IMHO, Nokia should stick to feature phones- i.e. phones with a camera and basic browser but not full smartphone functionality.

[Bagsbunny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMR

IMHO, Nokia should stick to feature phones- i.e. phones with a camera and basic browser but not full smartphone functionality.

it's a shame though. I bought a Lumia 710 when they were going cheap in Carphone Warehouse (£100), and whilst the apps choice is limited, the main things I use it for are brilliant: Maps,Twitter,Internet, Spotify are all superb on it,and it even has a more-than-decent camera!

[IvanIV]

WP7 in a form it is came too late. If it had come instead of Windows Mobile 5 or 6, they would have wiped the floor with Apple with it. Now people look for exciting hardware, computing power, screen resolution, something that devices with WP7 can't offer. If they came with WP8 instead of WP7, it would look better now for Nokia, I think. There's still a chance with new W8 devices, tablets, laptops, and phones, if they come with interesting hardware.

[daclick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quackers

If they put Android on a Nokia handset i will be at the shop wanting one the day it comes out. I can only hope that's their secret plan b.

Ditto, I'd trade my gs3 for a android nokia

[Helbore]

Whilst there's no way to actually spin a near $2 billion loss as a good thing, its not nearly as bad as some places make out. Nokia's sales have been growing and they're still not seeing the benefits of the restructuring they have undertaken. Also, there losses weren't as bad as predicted, suggesting they may actually be turning things around faster than expected.

There really wasn't any way Nokia were going to turn things around this year. They've made a lot of changes and are taking a hell of a risk. I doubt we'll see anything but losses in the next two quarters, either. It's all about next year for Nokia. If they're not showing even a small profit by Q2 2013, they probably never will.

My own prediction? I think they will be turning a profit, but nowhere near the top of the pile. The big question is whether they can gain momentum and become a major player again, or remain a low-ranking also-ran in the modern smartphone game.

[jabbamk1]

I think Nokia should have focused on Symbian for feature phones and Meego/Android for top end smartphones.... But thats never going to happen....

[wilt]

For everybody touting Android as a magic pill for Nokia: Look at Motorola, Sony and LG. Not doing great, are they?

[Step666]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilt

For everybody touting Android as a magic pill for Nokia: Look at Motorola, Sony and LG. Not doing great, are they?

This, a million times this.

All Android would've done for Nokia would've been to accelerate the death spiral.

[Zack06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilt

For everybody touting Android as a magic pill for Nokia: Look at Motorola, Sony and LG. Not doing great, are they?

Motorola and Sony are plagued with cash issues, interestingly Motorola are actually doing well in the US, and it was their Droid smartphone that launched Android as a true competitor to iOS in the US, they didn't spend the same amount of money in any other market. Sony devices are bogged down by the slowest UI skin of them all, LG aren't doing that bad I don't think, they just aren't a top tier Android OEM (yet).

HTC and Samsung were both not doing well for a long period, and even now, HTC is beginning to face big problems, as their One line didn't sell as well as expected. Only Samsung is actually making serious cash, but I suspect it's largely because they've made the biggest investment.

Any one of LG, Sony or Motorola could push towards the top with one hit device the same way HTC did. Nokia has more than enough hardware resources to make that kind of device, so I would be willing to bet that a Nokia Android device would be a success.

[John Malkovich]

Nokia could build Symbian, Android and Windows Phones if they wanted. Their refusal to use Android makes no sense in my eyes.

[finbaar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by c4rv

Their shares are now junk status, could be an opportunity for somebody willing to take a risk. Even if its just MS buying them out which BTW I really don't think will happen. MS have failed several times being in the phone hardware market and I don't think they are interested anymore in buying into that market. They will be happy partnering other companies instead.

Let's see. MS have seen Apple make a success with phones and now Google own Motorola. Nokia are running out of cash and MS could easily step in. They are going to offer their own slate PCs and they will want to do the same with phones.

[wilt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack06

Motorola and Sony are plagued with cash issues, interestingly Motorola are actually doing well in the US, and it was their Droid smartphone that launched Android as a true competitor to iOS in the US, they didn't spend the same amount of money in any other market. Sony devices are bogged down by the slowest UI skin of them all, LG aren't doing that bad I don't think, they just aren't a top tier Android OEM (yet).

HTC and Samsung were both not doing well for a long period, and even now, HTC is beginning to face big problems, as their One line didn't sell as well as expected. Only Samsung is actually making serious cash, but I suspect it's largely because they've made the biggest investment.

Any one of LG, Sony or Motorola could push towards the top with one hit device the same way HTC did. Nokia has more than enough hardware resources to make that kind of device, so I would be willing to bet that a Nokia Android device would be a success.

Motorola had success with the original Droid, yes, but they haven't seen that success since. And their performance outside of the US is truely shocking. They also made a loss this quarter just gone - they are doing pretty poorly.

Sony (Ericsson) have struggled to break even for years - and despite their best shot with the latest round of Xperia devices haven't been able to break through. This is probably because hardware wise they are a generation behind. In this way, they are similar to Nokia - they can't get new devices out quick enough.

LG are just a fail at Android phones, I don't think I have ever seen a good one.

The problem with Nokia isn't their hardware prowess, they are still best in class - the problem is that they aren't nimble enough to compete in the Android ecosystem. You need to be able to turn around a device with top spec hardware, running the latest software very quickly to compete in the Android marketplace. There's no way they could do that, they would be like Sony, always releasing last years hardware.

HTC and Samsung are so successful because they can turn around a complete new device with the latest hardware and latest version of Android in under a year.

The slower pace of Windows Phone development, that isn't so tied to having the latest hardware specs, makes it much easier for Nokia to release devices that are compelling.

[Step666]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack06

Nokia has more than enough hardware resources to make that kind of device, so I would be willing to bet that a Nokia Android device would be a success.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilt

The problem with Nokia isn't their hardware prowess, they are still best in class.

Could not disagree more.

I worked in mobile retail for years and pretty much everything after the N95 had issues - not just software problems (though there were plenty of them too), a lot of them the hardware was shoddy too.
And we're not just talking the cheaper handsets, the likes of the N96, N97, N97 Mini, 5800 used to get lots of all of them back. Same with the second-tier models like the 6500 Slide and especially the cheaper touchscreen models like the 5530 and 5230. Even the 'rock solid' E-series business handsets like the E71 which had good reputations tended to get pretty flaky after ~18 months.

Pretty much the only manufacturers we'd get more handsets back faulty from were Sony Ericsson and RIM.

[Orbitalzone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMR

IMHO, Nokia should stick to feature phones- i.e. phones with a camera and basic browser but not full smartphone functionality.

Yeah but those phones sell pretty cheap and the profits are obviously low.... I'm sure they'd be quite capable of making decent quality Android phones if they tried but I suspect they've made their bed with the MS tie in.

[wilt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Step666

Could not disagree more.

I worked in mobile retail for years and pretty much everything after the N95 had issues - not just software problems (though there were plenty of them too), a lot of them the hardware was shoddy too.
And we're not just talking the cheaper handsets, the likes of the N96, N97, N97 Mini, 5800 used to get lots of all of them back. Same with the second-tier models like the 6500 Slide and especially the cheaper touchscreen models like the 5530 and 5230. Even the 'rock solid' E-series business handsets like the E71 which had good reputations tended to get pretty flaky after ~18 months.

Pretty much the only manufacturers we'd get more handsets back faulty from were Sony Ericsson and RIM.

I was referring more to their industrial design than construction quality, which, with Nokia, seems to depend a lot on which of their factories builds your particular device.

[noise747]

I used to like Nokia phones, but i would not have another windows based phone. i know the newer ones are better than the old one I had, but to be honest, if they are anything like windows on my computer, they will be updated every week.

My little wildfire, ok it is a bit on the slow side, but it have not been updated since the day I got it because it works, simple as that, so why update it?

MS seems to chuck things ont he market and then update.


Maybe Nokia should have stuck with their own OS, and not get into bed with the devil.

[Zack06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilt

Motorola had success with the original Droid, yes, but they haven't seen that success since. And their performance outside of the US is truely shocking. They also made a loss this quarter just gone - they are doing pretty poorly.

Sony (Ericsson) have struggled to break even for years - and despite their best shot with the latest round of Xperia devices haven't been able to break through. This is probably because hardware wise they are a generation behind. In this way, they are similar to Nokia - they can't get new devices out quick enough.

LG are just a fail at Android phones, I don't think I have ever seen a good one.

The problem with Nokia isn't their hardware prowess, they are still best in class - the problem is that they aren't nimble enough to compete in the Android ecosystem. You need to be able to turn around a device with top spec hardware, running the latest software very quickly to compete in the Android marketplace. There's no way they could do that, they would be like Sony, always releasing last years hardware.

HTC and Samsung are so successful because they can turn around a complete new device with the latest hardware and latest version of Android in under a year.

The slower pace of Windows Phone development, that isn't so tied to having the latest hardware specs, makes it much easier for Nokia to release devices that are compelling.

LG is one to watch. They recently announced a 5-core 2Ghz device the Optimus 4X, they have some pretty impressive hardware, they remind me of Samsung before they broke through with the Galaxy S.

I never suggested Motorola were doing well outside of the US. They have put zero effort into marketing outside the US, and personally I don't rate their hardware/software package with Android, but nobody can deny the success of the Droid line in the US.

As for Nokia, I actually think they should go back to what they do best. Solid low cost hardware. The advantage with Android is that it also stretches to the low end, so if Nokia released a Lumia 710 equivalent on Android aiming for the cheap market, they could do well provided the phone is not too underpowered. Nintendo get by with last years hardware yet still manage to sell consoles, and I think Nokia could adopt that by offering a range of cheap smartphones aiming at those who can't afford/don't want to buy a fully fledged smartphone. Plus that way they could also tap in to the huge markets in India, China and Brazil as well as some African countries where there is massive demand for low cost hardware.

[wilt]

The 'Droid line' isn't exclusively Motorola, it is a Verizon brand with multiple manufacturers.

Have you ever used a low-end Android device? WP Tango performs much better.

[Zack06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilt

The 'Droid line' isn't exclusively Motorola, it is a Verizon brand with multiple manufacturers.

Have you ever used a low-end Android device?

When the Droid line started it was solely by Motorola and only later, HTC. Motorola have a partnership with Verizon and as a result the majority of the line features their devices.

Yes I own a HTC Wildfire as a backup phone. I think a Nokia Android with a respectable screen and processor at a low price would sell very well for those who just want the basics. Most low end Android phones are poor, so Nokia could easily gain an advantage.