[DianaFire]

Originally Posted by Jane Doh!

In all fairness, it's not the same thing at all. Not even close.

In the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches abstinence from all animal products is still commonly practiced, meaning only vegetarian (vegan) meals are consumed in many Eastern countries for the entire fifty-five days of their Lent.
In the Roman Catholic Church it is traditional to abstain from meat from mammals and fowl on Ash Wednesday and every Friday for the duration of Lent, although fish and dairy products are still permitted. On Ash Wednesday and Good Friday it is customary to fast for the day, with no meat, eating only one full meal, and if necessary, two small meals also.

It's gone back to the old version recently - they've brought back the no-meat-on-any-Friday rule which used to exist decades ago, and there's even a vegetarian version.

Ash Weds and Good Friday used to be full fasts, iirc. Perhaps dioceses or country habits differed.

[Jane Doh!]

Originally Posted by DianaFire

It's gone back to the old version recently - they've brought back the no-meat-on-any-Friday rule which used to exist decades ago, and there's even a vegetarian version.

Ash Weds and Good Friday used to be full fasts, iirc. Perhaps dioceses or country habits differed.

Oh, right. I'm not religious so all this is stuff I have to find out.

Still, the odd day of full fasting still doesn't come close to Ramadan.

[DianaFire]

Originally Posted by Jane Doh!

Oh, right. I'm not religious so all this is stuff I have to find out.

Still, the odd day of full fasting still doesn't come close to Ramadan.

I'm not these days so it's mostly rusty memories of my youth. True, the odd day doesn't come close to Ramadan - nothing about Catholicism ever required a long-term fast, though people would sometimes opt to do something like that as a penance of sorts in Lent. Not a requirement, though.

[ScotchMisst]

Originally Posted by captham

Yew trees probably aquired mytical significance because they are so long lived, even more than oaks. Some can live to 600 years, longer than most empires, making them a fixed part of the landscape going back beyond the time of myth. Also they are poisonous.

Some of the posts about fasting have been unbelievable. It's almost as if the posters are unaware that fasting is also a part of Christian belief, typically about 40 days at Lent, depending on which version someone follows. It represents an escape from self-indulgence and gluttony. Historically it served a good medical purpose helping the obsese rich who could afford to live on meat and fat clean out their systems.

Some oaks in this country are dated to 800 or 900 years old. Yews, however have been known to be up to 5,000 years.

The "mythical" connection to an ancient landscape and time is one part of it, people also believed their roots reached down into another world. They are very often associated with ancient religious sites and churches were built on these sites with the arrival of Christianity in the 5th and 6th Centuries.

Ancient religions mainly worshipped out doors, they were dependent on the elements, the seasons and on nature so worship and nurture of this was natural.

[captham]

Caught out by facts!

OK, I admit some of the Christian forms of "fasting" are pretty tame, but practice varies and some people do go without food during the days, or give up something substantial like meat for the entire 40-something days. Religious observance in the West has declined a lot over the past century, but my point was that some form of fasting is not unique to one religion.

Yes, some oaks are over 800 years old, but not many. A yew might have been central to a religious site since before it was made of stone.

[Jane Doh!]

Originally Posted by captham

Caught out by facts!

OK, I admit some of the Christian forms of "fasting" are pretty tame, but practice varies and some people do go without food during the days, or give up something substantial like meat for the entire 40-something days. Religious observance in the West has declined a lot over the past century, but my point was that some form of fasting is not unique to one religion.

Yes, some oaks are over 800 years old, but not many. A yew might have been central to a religious site since before it was made of stone.

Sure, but that was mentioned earlier in the thread. The point was that giving up meat, or one item that you really enjoy, for one month, is nothing like Ramadan.

[Titan9]

Originally Posted by spottybanana10

Titan, I agree. The not eating and drinking is not so bad once you get this far into Ramadan!!

Petra, its goin great Alhamdulilah!! How about yours?

Salaam (sister?) I hope your fasting is going well and I hope you and your family get rewarded in this holy month.

Indeed all praise is to Allah.

[spottybanana10]

Originally Posted by Titan9

Salaam (sister?) I hope your fasting is going well and I hope you and your family get rewarded in this holy month.

Indeed all praise is to Allah.

Wasalam, yes sister - how did you guess lol. Ameen, inshallah you and your family will be rewarded too!!

[DigitalMan]

Asalamalakum Brothers and sisters, what a lovely thread.

approx 2 weeks to go.

I prepared for my fasting by missing lunch meals for about 3-4 weeks prior to Ramadan starting. I would recommend this for everyone. It has really helped me control my hunger.

[Titan9]

Originally Posted by DigitalMan

Asalamalakum Brothers and sisters, what a lovely thread.

approx 2 weeks to go.

I prepared for my fasting by missing lunch meals for about 3-4 weeks prior to Ramadan starting. I would recommend this for everyone. It has really helped me control my hunger.

Walaikum salaam brother, did you fast during Shaban as well? I only fasted one day which is shame. Honestly speaking I need to stop being lazy, time goes along with any chance of salvation.

I will need to glorify and worship my Lord more.

[DigitalMan]

Originally Posted by Titan9

Walaikum salaam brother, did you fast during Shaban as well? I only fasted one day which is shame. Honestly speaking I need to stop being lazy, time goes along with any chance of salvation.

I will need to glorify and worship my Lord more.

No I didn't

I had planned to, but one thing or another and I was unable to. Inshallah next year.

There was a lot of negative talk regarding this years Ramadan, seeing as it was in the middle of Summer, but Alhamdulillah it has been no different to previous years. Very enjoyable.

[.Dozy Rosie]

Surely they are allowed to drink water?? I believe in what they do because it is their right...but to expect them to go without water is wrong!!!

[spottybanana10]

Originally Posted by .Dozy Rosie

Surely they are allowed to drink water?? I believe in what they do because it is their right...but to expect them to go without water is wrong!!!

No, we refrain from both eating AND drinking.

[ScotchMisst]

Originally Posted by spottybanana10

No, we refrain from both eating AND drinking.

Hey there,

i have been pondering on something - never a good thing! I don't think you saw my Q regarding the crescent moon on mosques? (post 668)...

I was also thinking about how you go by the moon calendar, last night was a full moon and you are around half way? Does that mean you fast from New Moon to New Moon? Do you do anything to mark the quarters?

I would have expected it to run from Full Moon to Full Moon, but that is 28 days...

[Titan9]

Originally Posted by ScotchMisst

Hey there,

i have been pondering on something - never a good thing! I don't think you saw my Q regarding the crescent moon on mosques? (post 668)...

I was also thinking about how you go by the moon calendar, last night was a full moon and you are around half way? Does that mean you fast from New Moon to New Moon? Do you do anything to mark the quarters?

I would have expected it to run from Full Moon to Full Moon, but that is 28 days...

RE: Crescent moon, I am not really that knowledgeable, however I think it something that has been adopted, but not strictly an 'official' Islamic symbol. There is something on Wiki, but it may not be reliable as such.

RE: New moon (not from the Twilight saga), yes I believe it is a new moon to new moon calendar, there is nothing done to signify the quarters. I think there is a difference of opinion amongst the scholars to address your last point.

[randomlise]

Today i found out that the fasting for Ramadan also includes not drinking water, now i know its not really an issue here in the Uk but in some very hot places like Dubai for example, do muslims still not drink water during the day under such extreme conditions?

[adopter]

Originally Posted by Titan9

RE: Crescent moon, I am not really that knowledgeable, however I think it something that has been adopted, but not strictly an 'official' Islamic symbol. There is something on Wiki, but it may not be reliable as such.

RE: New moon (not from the Twilight saga), yes I believe it is a new moon to new moon calendar, there is nothing done to signify the quarters. I think there is a difference of opinion amongst the scholars to address your last point.

The crescent moon was never a symbol in original Islam ie in Muhammed's time. But it has been a symbol of ancient Eastern empires for a long time so was adopted.

Perhaps something to do with them navigating the desert at night because it was too hot during the day.

[Charles II]

Originally Posted by adopter

The crescent moon was never a symbol in original Islam ie in Muhammed's time. But it has been a symbol of ancient Eastern empires for a long time so was adopted.

Perhaps something to do with them navigating the desert at night because it was too hot during the day.

..I actually heard from a guy from Iran that it actually has something to do with this

http://alisina.org/wp-content/upload...h-moon-god.jpg

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/images/muslim.jpg

Apparently the Ancient Pagan-Arabs, Babylonians & Sumerians were already using the word ''Allah'' for the Pagan Moon-God "Allah"

But I don't want to go into too much detail and annoy people here.

[adopter]

Originally Posted by Charles II

..I actually heard from a guy from Iran that it actually has something to do with this

http://alisina.org/wp-content/upload...h-moon-god.jpg

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/images/muslim.jpg

Apparently the Ancient Pagan-Arabs, Babylonians & Sumerians were already using the word ''Allah'' for the Pagan Moon-God "Allah"

But I don't want to go into too much detail and annoy people here.

It's not annoying at all. I find the history of religions fascinating and how they all adopted local customs to fit with their ideologies.

Where are those sculptures from?

[electron]

Please explain what Fing Heat to me who lives in the NW of England .
Rainfall has been nearly constant since end of May.

[captham]

Originally Posted by Jane Doh!

Sure, but that was mentioned earlier in the thread. The point was that giving up meat, or one item that you really enjoy, for one month, is nothing like Ramadan.

Accepted that full-on Ramadam fasting, including no water, is difficult. But please accept that while much Christian "fasting" has had all sorts of compromises built in (beavers were classified as fish), there have been purists down the ages who have rejected anything other than full avoidance of food and drink.

Also there is a difference between giving up something that you like and something you must have. Have you tried going a month without coffee, chocolate and any other form of caffine? Tea? Paracetemol plus? Coke? Do you smoke? Try stopping that for 40 days. Not the same as no food, but not easy either.

[exlordlucan]

Originally Posted by captham

Accepted that full-on Ramadam fasting, including no water, is difficult. But please accept that while much Christian "fasting" has had all sorts of compromises built in (beavers were classified as fish), there have been purists down the ages who have rejected anything other than full avoidance of food and drink..

They would be exceptions to the rule and like you said 'down the ages', it's not something that happens now as far as I know.

Originally Posted by captham

Also there is a difference between giving up something that you like and something you must have. Have you tried going a month without coffee, chocolate and any other form of caffine? Tea? Paracetemol plus? Coke? Do you smoke? Try stopping that for 40 days. Not the same as no food, but not easy either.

I used to give up chocolate when a kid but continued with other sweets; there is choice of what you give up (unlike ramadan) and if coffee is one you can't do without then it's not a sin to not opt for it, choose something else because you're not supposed to suffer without.

It's your choice and if I recall there wasn't anything to say you had to give up something anyway, it was down to you.

(I talk past tense because I no longer practice religion)

[oldfogey101]

I'm not sure if this is offensive - I hope it isn't, and it's not meant to be - but you got to be a right fat, greedy bastard to find religious fasting difficult.

[Jane Doh!]

Originally Posted by captham

Accepted that full-on Ramadam fasting, including no water, is difficult. But please accept that while much Christian "fasting" has had all sorts of compromises built in (beavers were classified as fish), there have been purists down the ages who have rejected anything other than full avoidance of food and drink.

Also there is a difference between giving up something that you like and something you must have. Have you tried going a month without coffee, chocolate and any other form of caffine? Tea? Paracetemol plus? Coke? Do you smoke? Try stopping that for 40 days. Not the same as no food, but not easy either.

Purists, not the norm.

There are several things you have to give up when you are pregnant, for nine months, not just one month. Certain foods, alcohol, cigarettes, medication ...

I'm not saying that Christian fasts, such as they are, are not difficult. But they are not the same as Ramadan.

[ScotchMisst]

Originally Posted by Titan9

RE: Crescent moon, I am not really that knowledgeable, however I think it something that has been adopted, but not strictly an 'official' Islamic symbol. There is something on Wiki, but it may not be reliable as such.

RE: New moon (not from the Twilight saga), yes I believe it is a new moon to new moon calendar, there is nothing done to signify the quarters. I think there is a difference of opinion amongst the scholars to address your last point.

Thanks for that, yes Wiki is a bit dodgy, it's useful to an extent but only if it's sources are checkable.

Originally Posted by adopter

The crescent moon was never a symbol in original Islam ie in Muhammed's time. But it has been a symbol of ancient Eastern empires for a long time so was adopted.

Perhaps something to do with them navigating the desert at night because it was too hot during the day.

Navigation? That's interesting, no stars, just moon though.

Originally Posted by Charles II

..I actually heard from a guy from Iran that it actually has something to do with this

http://alisina.org/wp-content/upload...h-moon-god.jpg

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/images/muslim.jpg

Apparently the Ancient Pagan-Arabs, Babylonians & Sumerians were already using the word ''Allah'' for the Pagan Moon-God "Allah"

But I don't want to go into too much detail and annoy people here.

Another interesting theory. Thanks...

Originally Posted by adopter

It's not annoying at all. I find the history of religions fascinating and how they all adopted local customs to fit with their ideologies.

Where are those sculptures from?

I've got lots of reading to do now! Thanks again all, I'm aware that you don't have to answer anyones questions!

And personally I hope that no one would take offense, there are a lot of overlaps in religions and many have lots in common....