Sky were one of the companies that started out Freeview. You must remember that ten years ago, the situation was very different. Broadcasters were (rightly) very cautious about DTT after the abject failure of ITV Digital, so they had to get quite a few backers to ensure it would succeed, and Sky was (and is) one of them.
19th September 2012: Freeview Retune Day
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[quote=chrisy;60264378]Everyone was consulted - it was a public consultation.
According to the Statement on reorganisation of the DTT LCN listing and on changes to DMOL’s LCN policy
Published: 30 July 2012, the consultation elicited a response from two individuals and eighty four other individuals responding about TG4.
Extract from DMOL
Annex 1: Summary of consultation responses
DMOL received a total of 131 responses to the consultation, four from its shareholders, 16 from other channel providers or prospective channel providers on the DTT platform, three from IPTV providers, ten from other organisations, ten from political representatives and 88 from individuals. The responses from individuals included 86 in substantially the same terms relating to the prospective LCN listing for the Irish language channel TG4, as a result of a campaign organised by viewers of TG4.
This does not sound like a very good response if 'everybody' was consulted. Not quite what I would regard as a puplic consultation.
According to the Statement on reorganisation of the DTT LCN listing and on changes to DMOL’s LCN policy
Published: 30 July 2012, the consultation elicited a response from two individuals and eighty four other individuals responding about TG4.
Extract from DMOL
Annex 1: Summary of consultation responses
DMOL received a total of 131 responses to the consultation, four from its shareholders, 16 from other channel providers or prospective channel providers on the DTT platform, three from IPTV providers, ten from other organisations, ten from political representatives and 88 from individuals. The responses from individuals included 86 in substantially the same terms relating to the prospective LCN listing for the Irish language channel TG4, as a result of a campaign organised by viewers of TG4.
This does not sound like a very good response if 'everybody' was consulted. Not quite what I would regard as a puplic consultation.
Originally Posted by Muzer:
“Sky were one of the companies that started out Freeview. You must remember that ten years ago, the situation was very different. Broadcasters were (rightly) very cautious about DTT after the abject failure of ITV Digital, so they had to get quite a few backers to ensure it would succeed, and Sky was (and is) one of them.”
“Sky were one of the companies that started out Freeview. You must remember that ten years ago, the situation was very different. Broadcasters were (rightly) very cautious about DTT after the abject failure of ITV Digital, so they had to get quite a few backers to ensure it would succeed, and Sky was (and is) one of them.”
This is like being back at school - I learn something new every day - that is very good. I now know what a MUX is and am working my way through the other acronyms used in this discussion and in the DMOL document.
Originally Posted by patfiggerty:
“This is like being back at school - I learn something new every day - that is very good. I now know what a MUX is and am working my way through the other acronyms used in this discussion and in the DMOL document.”
“This is like being back at school - I learn something new every day - that is very good. I now know what a MUX is and am working my way through the other acronyms used in this discussion and in the DMOL document.”
I don't suppose you could post up a list breaking it all down for us plebs could you?
Originally Posted by patfiggerty:
“According to the Statement on reorganisation of the DTT LCN listing and on changes to DMOL?s LCN policy
Published: 30 July 2012, the consultation elicited a response from two individuals and eighty four other individuals responding about TG4.
This does not sound like a very good response if 'everybody' was consulted. Not quite what I would regard as a puplic consultation.”
“According to the Statement on reorganisation of the DTT LCN listing and on changes to DMOL?s LCN policy
Published: 30 July 2012, the consultation elicited a response from two individuals and eighty four other individuals responding about TG4.
This does not sound like a very good response if 'everybody' was consulted. Not quite what I would regard as a puplic consultation.”
I agree with you, however it was well publicised on this very forum (and, I'm sure, other Freeview geeky forums), the home of fantasy channel lists and people complaining about the numbering order, and yet only one - possibly two - people from here bothered to respond. If that's the level of ambivalence on here, then had it been in the national press it would hardly have elicited many responses from the general public. Anybody interested would already have known about it (it was also in trade rags such as Broadcast and on general Freeview-related geek sites)
It was a public consultation, as the public were invited to respond. Ofcom's consultations are all public too, but are also rarely mentioned elsewhere other than trade rags and geek sites.
Originally Posted by chrisy:
“I agree with you, however it was well publicised on this very forum (and, I'm sure, other Freeview geeky forums), the home of fantasy channel lists and people complaining about the numbering order, and yet only one - possibly two - people from here bothered to respond. If that's the level of ambivalence on here, then had it been in the national press it would hardly have elicited many responses from the general public. Anybody interested would already have known about it (it was also in trade rags such as Broadcast and on general Freeview-related geek sites)
It was a public consultation, as the public were invited to respond. Ofcom's consultations are all public too, but are also rarely mentioned elsewhere other than trade rags and geek sites.”
“I agree with you, however it was well publicised on this very forum (and, I'm sure, other Freeview geeky forums), the home of fantasy channel lists and people complaining about the numbering order, and yet only one - possibly two - people from here bothered to respond. If that's the level of ambivalence on here, then had it been in the national press it would hardly have elicited many responses from the general public. Anybody interested would already have known about it (it was also in trade rags such as Broadcast and on general Freeview-related geek sites)
It was a public consultation, as the public were invited to respond. Ofcom's consultations are all public too, but are also rarely mentioned elsewhere other than trade rags and geek sites.”
I think that your post says it all really.
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“The DMOL document states:
“The DMOL document states:
Originally Posted by dmol:
“Based on the consultation responses and our further work we have been able to develop and refine our communications plan, which will include:
PR – A Freeview-branded press release to be issued in early September, approximately two weeks prior to the 19 September implementation date. This will be targeted to mainstream and specialist media.
MHEG messages – On-screen messages will be broadcast across the two weeks prior to 19 September, on a frequency of two messages per week. This is an increased weight from the one week of messages proposed in the consultation. The messages will run on BBC One, BBC Two, ITV1, Channel 4 and BBC Parliament. The messages will enable viewers to press the blue button on their remote to click-through for more information about the changes, and how to re-tune. The messages can be cleared by pressing the yellow button. We will also run MHEGs during the two weeks after the changes are made.
Viewers in the Tyne Tees TV region will be excluded from this MHEG plan, since they will already be receiving MHEG messages encouraging them to re-tune for their switchover on 26 September 2012.
We were asked by some children‟s channel providers to run an adapted MHEG on the children‟s channels; in language which might be more appealing to children. Unfortunately it is not technically feasible to run a different message on these channels, but the message will be easy to understand by all.
NCNDs – Network Change Notifier Descriptors are over-air triggers which instruct DTT equipment with assisted re-tune functionality to re-tune at the time the changes are made. We can now confirm that we will broadcast these invisible over-air signals for four weeks prior to the changes being made to ensure that all those with this equipment receive the trigger.
Freeview website – We confirm that information about the changes will be promoted on the Freeview, Digital UK and DMOL websites, and that these will point to pages with helpful advice on how to re-tune.”
”
“Based on the consultation responses and our further work we have been able to develop and refine our communications plan, which will include:
PR – A Freeview-branded press release to be issued in early September, approximately two weeks prior to the 19 September implementation date. This will be targeted to mainstream and specialist media.
MHEG messages – On-screen messages will be broadcast across the two weeks prior to 19 September, on a frequency of two messages per week. This is an increased weight from the one week of messages proposed in the consultation. The messages will run on BBC One, BBC Two, ITV1, Channel 4 and BBC Parliament. The messages will enable viewers to press the blue button on their remote to click-through for more information about the changes, and how to re-tune. The messages can be cleared by pressing the yellow button. We will also run MHEGs during the two weeks after the changes are made.
Viewers in the Tyne Tees TV region will be excluded from this MHEG plan, since they will already be receiving MHEG messages encouraging them to re-tune for their switchover on 26 September 2012.
We were asked by some children‟s channel providers to run an adapted MHEG on the children‟s channels; in language which might be more appealing to children. Unfortunately it is not technically feasible to run a different message on these channels, but the message will be easy to understand by all.
NCNDs – Network Change Notifier Descriptors are over-air triggers which instruct DTT equipment with assisted re-tune functionality to re-tune at the time the changes are made. We can now confirm that we will broadcast these invisible over-air signals for four weeks prior to the changes being made to ensure that all those with this equipment receive the trigger.
Freeview website – We confirm that information about the changes will be promoted on the Freeview, Digital UK and DMOL websites, and that these will point to pages with helpful advice on how to re-tune.”
A week to go, and I've seen no evidence of any of this. Are the changes going ahead or has Sky completely scuppered it?
Originally Posted by chrisy:
“A week to go, and I've seen no evidence of any of this. Are the changes going ahead or has Sky completely scuppered it?”
“A week to go, and I've seen no evidence of any of this. Are the changes going ahead or has Sky completely scuppered it?”
All changes are going ahead as planed on 19/9/12 apart from children and news sections.
The children and news sections may be move at a later date to be confirm by DMOL.This will mean another rescan.
Originally Posted by Ray Cathode:
“The Jewellery Channel is running promos between every auction sale saying Freeview 49 from 19/9/12.”
“The Jewellery Channel is running promos between every auction sale saying Freeview 49 from 19/9/12.”
what about the foodnetwork ray are they saying anything about moving to channel 48 from 19/9/12
Originally Posted by Ray Cathode:
“The Jewellery Channel is running promos between every auction sale saying Freeview 49 from 19/9/12.”
“The Jewellery Channel is running promos between every auction sale saying Freeview 49 from 19/9/12.”
Not my usual choice of channel, so I'd missed that. Very silent on the DMOL and Freeview websites, what happened to the press release? tvretune.co.uk thinks there are no upcoming retunes too.
Originally Posted by dj999:
“wots the point of a re-tune if there are no NEW channels
”
“wots the point of a re-tune if there are no NEW channels
”
The plan was to rearrange the channels so that the genres are no longer overflowing and the numbering makes more sense. Hopefully this won't be scuppered by Sky.
Originally Posted by Muzer:
“The plan was to rearrange the channels so that the genres are no longer overflowing and the numbering makes more sense. Hopefully this won't be scuppered by Sky.”
“The plan was to rearrange the channels so that the genres are no longer overflowing and the numbering makes more sense. Hopefully this won't be scuppered by Sky.”
maybe so, but 1 to 50 will still be in the same order
Originally Posted by chrisy:
“Not my usual choice of channel, so I'd missed that. Very silent on the DMOL and Freeview websites, what happened to the press release? tvretune.co.uk thinks there are no upcoming retunes too.”
“Not my usual choice of channel, so I'd missed that. Very silent on the DMOL and Freeview websites, what happened to the press release? tvretune.co.uk thinks there are no upcoming retunes too.”
DMOL have put a paragraph about testing STBs for the forthcoming LCN reshuffle on the Technical News section of their website.
Originally Posted by chrisy:
“A week to go, and I've seen no evidence of any of this. Are the changes going ahead or has Sky completely scuppered it?”
“A week to go, and I've seen no evidence of any of this. Are the changes going ahead or has Sky completely scuppered it?”
Nothing seen here either (Sutton Coldfield). Odd, seeing as these messages were supposed to be appearing two weeks beforehand.
Seems that few will be aware unless there is a big splash from today.
Forget the rest of the EPG, it's Channels 1-50 that need the re-ordering! (After the shopping and gaming crap has been removed from them and put in their own sections of course!)
So, am I right in thinking that this exercise has changed from a major swaparound to a minor tweak that the majority of those viewers who concentrate on the mainstream SD channels can choose to ignore?
Originally Posted by albertd:
“So, am I right in thinking that this exercise has changed from a major swaparound to a minor tweak that the majority of those viewers who concentrate on the mainstream SD channels can choose to ignore?”
“So, am I right in thinking that this exercise has changed from a major swaparound to a minor tweak that the majority of those viewers who concentrate on the mainstream SD channels can choose to ignore?”
Correct - all it will do is close the gap at LCN 48. A complete and utter waste of an opportunity and even that small change now seems to be being mismanaged.
Originally Posted by kasg:
“Correct - all it will do is close the gap at LCN 48. A complete and utter waste of an opportunity and even that small change now seems to be being mismanaged.”
“Correct - all it will do is close the gap at LCN 48. A complete and utter waste of an opportunity and even that small change now seems to be being mismanaged.”
So the HD LCNs are not moving to 101-120 either?
Because next week's RT has BBC one HD on 101, BBC HD on 102, ITV HD on 103, and C3 HD on 104 from the 19th!
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“So the HD LCNs are not moving to 101-120 either?
Because next week's RT has BBC one HD on 101, BBC HD on 102, ITV HD on 103, and C3 HD on 104 from the 19th!”
“So the HD LCNs are not moving to 101-120 either?
Because next week's RT has BBC one HD on 101, BBC HD on 102, ITV HD on 103, and C3 HD on 104 from the 19th!”
All the freeview HD channel will move on 19/9/12.The children and news section only have been delayed.
Originally Posted by tomee:
“All the freeview HD channel will move on 19/9/12.The children and news section only have been delayed.”
“All the freeview HD channel will move on 19/9/12.The children and news section only have been delayed.”
That's what I thought - a significant change that will still happen, even though publicity has been zero (even the RT has no explicit mention of it, just the amended HD channel numbers on each listing page).
They *completely* should have postponed the whole thing until the result of the thingy with Sky, IMHO.
mossy2103: kasg was referring to SD viewers (as in the post he quoted).
mossy2103: kasg was referring to SD viewers (as in the post he quoted).
Originally Posted by Muzer:
“They *completely* should have postponed the whole thing until the result of the thingy with Sky, IMHO.
mossy2103: kasg was referring to SD viewers (as in the post he quoted).”
“They *completely* should have postponed the whole thing until the result of the thingy with Sky, IMHO.
mossy2103: kasg was referring to SD viewers (as in the post he quoted).”
Well this has taking DMOL almost two years why they did not wait for any appeals to be concluded i don't no.
Originally Posted by Muzer:
“mossy2103: kasg was referring to SD viewers (as in the post he quoted).”
“mossy2103: kasg was referring to SD viewers (as in the post he quoted).”
Ah yes, I should have read that quote more closely.
Sorry kasg.
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