There is a new one reported tonight. Composite video out does not include the menu overlays. As a result using a rf analogue video distribution system can't really use any sort of remote AV ir repeater system based on any existing system. Magic eyes, Video senders etc.

Do the Youview team live in the real world ?

Problem with the point about auto tuning is it depends on where you live. I live I range of Sutton Coldfield and the SFN in my case based on Lark Stoke and Bromsgrove, none of my kit can reject the unwanted sfn, (same region, unwanted duplicates).

Delete, already posted

After reading user reports and various reviews I think I might just send the box straight back to Humax (unopened).

Too much of a downgrade from my HDR-FOX T2. I'd rather just buy another one of those.

Or buy a dedicated HTPC or nettop computer to add all those catch up services Youview gives you as well as all the other online services it doesn't.

The Xbox offers catchup too albeit only BBC iPlayer and Demand 5 currently. Trouble is it's bloody noisy for TV but according to reviews so is this Youview box, with even worse bootup times.

Very frustrated with myself for taking the plunge on this without fully doing my research. I guess I just expected more given the amount of time that's gone into Youview and the number of big companies involved.

For want of repeating what I have posted elsewhere, if you are a Gadget Enthusiast who likes making additional copies of recordings, recording OTT content etc. just don't bother - this box is not designed for you!

Youview has been designed by broadcasters and telecoms companies for use by general TV consumers. The interface generally does a good job of integrating OTA, OTT and PVR functionality and can be picked up quickly by most users.

But anything that allows breaching of copyright is not permitted, hence as well as inability to take copies of programmes off the Hard drive it doesn't have component HD output - you are forced to use protected HDMI.

Also bear in mind that ITV Player and 4od force you to watch adverts via PC playback so this situation is not special to Youview.

Believe it or not I haven't found anything that I want missing fom the DTR-T1000 and I am impressed with the performance and integration. Maybe I'm not very picky! But the wife loves it and as she is the main user that's the measure of success in my book.

Here's my guesses at the thinking behind the differences from the HDR-T2. Apologies in advance for being a bit tongue in cheek!

Are my recording saved if I reset the Unit = No - why would you selectively reset? Treat as a return to factory settings that fixes everything.

Is there an Edit Channels option = No - Youview stakeholders value and market their LCNs and don't see why a normal consumer would want to deviate from the proscribed plan.

Can we set up Favourites = No - why do you want to restrict yourself to channels when Youview let's you pick from your favourite genres across all channels?

Is there a Manual Tuning option = No - Youview box selects correct region from available signals based on your postcode and then signal strength.

Padding of timers = No padding options - don't you trust the on-time programming signalling?

Manual schedule times = No - don't you trust the on-time programming signalling and advanced EPG?

Edit schedule timers = No - as above

Extend instant Record time = No -as above.

EPG Programme searches = No (on demand only ) - has been mentioned as a future update.

USB File exports = No - why would broadcasters help you make an illegal DRM free second copy of a program?

WiFi Available = Not at present (Future enhansement) - WiFi is a poor substitute for Cable or Powerline anyway. To be discouraged to give more consistent performance to more users.

Can I skip adverts = No - why should Youview stakeholders let you reduce their income from commercials by allowing you to skip them? They don't allow this on PC platforms so why Youview? (technology finally allows them to stop ad skipping and they are damn well oing to use it!).

Can I select multiple recordings to delete = No - but there is now 1 button delete va the remote.

Is there a folders option = No - didn't feature in the focus groups as something people other than geeks would actually use.

Can I record on demand content = No - why the heck would we let you view content past the deadline we have paid our rights holders for the OTT services? They'll blame us for allowing breach of contract and sue us as they then want to sell the content on to other online paid for services....

Power up time = 2 Mins 13 Secs - but MUCH quicker if you turn off Eco mode. Is this comparing apples with apples? Does the HDR-T2 boot quickly from total cold state?

Power Down time = 6 Mins 7 Secs - but instantaneous if you turn off ECo mode

Quick power up = 23 Secs (Requires 16.2 Watt Standby) - Doesn't seem that slow to me.

OTA Software updates = No - but it's an online box. Why would you buy a Youview box without connecting it to the net?

Resolution change options = No - auto senses your TVs capability

Aspect ratio change options = No - why do you want to distort your picture when you can do that on the TV itself? Auto senses your display via HDMI.

Screen Saver = No - has a power save time setting.

Can I use alternate Remote codes = No - urrr yes you can put codes into the remote to use it as your TV remote as well.

Is a CAM slot available = No - BT are moving to broadcast linear channels via IPTV and why should they let you use a TUTV cam anyway?

Do Vision / Connect channels work = No - competitors! They should be on Youview instead....

Can you skip forward / backwards = No - we are not going to annoy our commercial advertisers by deliberately giving you Ad Skipping tools! But you can FF / Rewind PVR recordings.

Is slow motion available = No Geek toy.

FTP Server Available = No Geek toy

DLNA Server / Client Available = No use your smart TV......

I couldnt have put it better myself. Outstanding post. Looking forward to BTs Youview.

I will just pick these to comment on

1) What happens if you move house to another transmitter? The only way to rescan is by resetting the unit. Or what if the box freezes (as has been reported as happening)? In both those case the user would not be happy to lose their existing recordings.

2) No, we bloody well don't trust the broadcasters to get this right all the time. Anyone with even a whiff of experience of using a PVR can lay testament to that.

If the box freezes you do the Engineers Reset (I.e. turn it off and on again via the rear switch!). No programmes lost then.

It's incorrect that the only way to rescan is via a reset! There is a retune option in the TV Signal & Quality
Menu. Why did you think otherwise???

Fair enough, although I have seen reports where powering off and on again has not worked to unbrick a box. And point 2).

Broadcasters aren't going to give you an option that basically admits their play out systems can get it wrong!

And if your box is bricked you are not going to be able to get to a reset menu....

About 20 seconds from low power sby


No - some broadcasters don't even use accurate recording

Channel 5 in particular haven't a clue how to use series recording codes. The only way to record the lunchtime Neighbours and Home and Away is by a manual repeating recording. It's not unusual for holes to appear in the epg, manual recording is the only workaround. You might only want to record part of a programme say chopping out the before kick off preamble for a football match.


Sounds like the focus group have never tried to use a PVR with say 400GB of recorded content in a linear file list. You don't actually use Folders, series recordings are automatically filed in folders for you so all the episodes of a series are kept together. After viewing and deleting the last episode the folder deletes itself. Imagine a PC without a tree Folder and File structure. Completely barmy decision.

I await the inevitable complaints that programme so and so chopped of the end

It looks like the Vision/Connect,and like services will never feature on YouView kit then?,this is not a big deal for me,but would have prefered to have them,as additional 'value added content'.

Would like to see the picture quality,of the on demand main channels,is it really sub SD quality?.
I set up the XBMC media centre on my Raspberry Pi yesterday,and the main channels on demand was certainly sub SD quality.

I hope the YouView box is better than that for three hundred quid,having said that,other 720p HD content I found on there looked really nice and sharp,from the likes of Vimeo.

I hope to get YouView,but already have a smart TV,and a HD/PVR,so will wait for more third party content to be available,via this platform,and I am sure there will be.
The other driver for me would be if my HD/PVR,breaks down.

I think we've found our first YouView fanboys!

As Graham said, some of those defensive comments could only be made by someone who has never used a proper PVR. On many of the points, I'm not sure Colin even understands what he's saying.

Cheers,
David.

Sorry you didn't register that these were tongue in cheek comments 'as if' I was a Youview decision maker basing design decisions on focus groups.

But seriously you need to take a few steps back and recognise that some of these 'major flaws', whilst possibly restricting to someone who has grown used to a HDR-T2, are not going to even register as an issue to most of the target market.

And I do recognise that most people who post here are quite demanding in what they want in a PVR. That probably means that they are not in the target market for this box as I have previously stated!

Most people are demanding when spending £300 on something, given the many cheaper alternatives.

Don't get me wrong - I'm a big fan of the idea - just not yet sold on the implementation.

Cheers,
David.

I agree with Colin - if you want a PVR with all the functionality you have come to expect from these forums then Youview isn't for you.

What it does do is provide a "simple" solution for recording linear channels and watching catch up content. Most of my frustrations with the box stem from me trying to use it like I use the HDR Fox T2, eg accessing recordings from the recordings list, which takes multiple button presses etc.

If I use it like my parents would use it, which is to access everything (live tv, recordings and on demand) from the EPG then it does provide a fairly seamless experience. It also does a good job of managing recording conflicts using +1 channels etc.

It will serve as a decent unit for the bedroom, which is mainly used by my wife, but I wouldn't pay £300 for it when there are better PVRs out there..

The "best" signal isn't always what you want. Where my parents are they receive both from Emley Moor and a nearer relay (Holmfirth). The aeriel is pointed at Emley Moor to get all muxes. The relay gives a stronger signal but it isn't as robust due to the aeriel not pointing at it, so it drops out in windy weather. So they have to tune manually to the muxes, a box picking the strongest would pick the less desirable relay muxes.

Also in my parents case a prompt to select the transmitter doesn't help. The relay broadcasts the same identification (SI) data as the main transmitter so the box can't pick between them. So when they do autotune they get a menu asking them to select their region and the only entry on it is W. Yorkshire.

What they need is a box that lets you configure in the settings menus which UHF channel numbers it tunes to. Then elsewhere there should be a "rescan channels" option that would delete all channels and rescan just the configured UHF channel numbers. This way I could configure in settings the UHF channel numbers, while they could easily rescan for new logical channels.

With the present system I have to talk my parents through a retune over the phone, it's just too complicate for them to handle themselves. I blame the box manufacturers and Freeview for simply ignoring how complex some of the reception conditions might be. At least the HDR Fox T2 allows them to tune manually, something their Sony TV makes very hard (you can do it but only on a per LCN basis, which would take ages!).

The DTR-T1000 knows what your postcode is, assuming you have entered it correctly. I'm not sure what this is for, maybe giving you the correct region catchup ITV1 and BBC1 etc? But it could also use it to know what transmitter you should be receiving from, though it may just assume the nearest eg. a local relay when you may have arranged reception of the main transmitter (my parents' situation). Also the Freeview part of this box works without an internet connection, but the postcode couldn't help retunes unless the internet is up. So it doesn't seem very likely.

Now here I have no sympathy with anyone. Video senders etc. are ancient technology. The picture quality is reduced to SD whatever you are watching and the sound is mono. I'd much rather install another box. For my parents I installed an HD Fox T2 in their bedroom and connected via cabled ethernet so they can watch either off air by aeriel or watch any recordings upstairs provided the HDR Fox T2 in the lounge is switched on. A much more flexible setup than a video sender, with a full HD picture and stereo sound.

The DTR-T1000 generates exactly the same amount of noise as the HDR Fox T2. It has the same fan in the same casework, and the cpu has the same heatsink. It's possible due to faster cpu speed that the DTR-T1000 fan comes on a bit more often, but I haven't noticed that and I'm very fussy about fan noise.

No for once this is not a valid criticism, it's no louder than other boxes. Of course if you have a pathological hatred of fans in anything then it is a fair point.

But Freeview and DTG recommend a full reset of boxes whenever there is a retune event. Youview uses are going to get really hacked off the first time they follow those instructions and it wipes all of their recordings.

I know that the DTR-T1000 handles channel updates automatically, 301HD appeared on 304 on mine without me having do anything whereas I had to retune my HDR Fox T2. But Joe Public doesn't know that and may follow the standard Freeview retune advice anyway. Are they really going to say "do a reset of your box, except if it's a Youview box in which case don't do anything". And that assumes every owner is clear on whether they have a Youview box or not.

This is further proof of the lunacy of the standard retune advice being "do a reset" - it destroys all the other settings on the box!

Vision/Connect keep insisting that YouView boxes at launch will support their channels.

Possibly the most common question from Ex Sky box users changing to Freesat+ is can I continue to use my existing 6way/8 way etc magic eye setup. So much so that Triax produce a replacement system. I use rf to feed a 19" small screen TV in the kitchen using just a single coax, installed years ago. It's more than adequate for this application.