Sorry, I'm baffled. It appears that myself and my friends and family live in a completely different world to yours and those customers buying the Triax replacement system.

But then if we're out and someone asks "do you know what the score is?" we reply "ah that's why it's nice and quiet out, there's a major football match on!". Is this the distinguishing trait? Football watching vs. "I'd rather boil my head in vinegar"?

You're not forced to watch it - you can always follow the time-honoured tradition of doing something else while the adverts are on. However, you are forced to download them, which for people on a limited data plan might not be ideal (although, as has been pointed out elsewhere, the same thing happens accessing those services on a PC so it's not solely a YouView issue.)


AFAIK they're like that if you stream them on a PC as well so, again, the problem is not unique to YouView.

It does seem daft not to be able to search within the schedule of upcoming programmes in the EPG.

Apart from the link to the kitchen I don't have any sort of system (No TV in the bedroom) except for a Smart TV in my Grandsons room, just recognise that others may have different priorities and simply may not wish to replace an existing system they are happy with. I wouldn't presume to lecture them nor make snide comments either. Just because you have no interest doesn't change the facts. The fact is that for many this will be a problem.

Coiln seems to be making some very strong arguments in post #32 that I think shows where his loyalties lie, e.g. with the broadcaster / program provider. It sound to me like you're saying that you expect the consumer to pay £300 for a unit which has had many facilites stripped out of it because they suit they suit the provider and not the customer

I believe he was being ironic, I think he has clarified this at least twice already in this thread.

But you can't watch your recordings on the other box! (no DLNA, remember? ).

Is this the equivalent of writing a very long block of text attacking something and them placing a smiley at the end, which is supposed to be interpreted as 'only joking, I didn't mean any of it' ?

He said at the start of item #32:

"Apologies in advance for being a bit tongue in cheek! "

Sorry, I thought we were discussing the concept in general, not it's specific application to the DTR-T1000. If I knew I wanted a remote box, I'd get an HDR Fox T2 and HD Fox T2 for the remote end. With the absence of a DLNA server or similar, the DTR-T1000 simply isn't a suitable device as the master as far as I'm concerned.

Yeahbut on Freesat we get better iPlayer SD quality than on a PC. They're different streams, targeted at TVs, not PCs.

Never mind the fact that YouTube is far better quality than this - on PCs and TVs (if you're watching decent quality videos on it).

I guess the revenues don't justify the expenditure, but hopefully one day they will. Or maybe there's some technical reason? Still, if the BBC can provide iPlayer HD, which can look excellent on some devices, then I guess there's no technical impediment to all HD-sourced catch-up looking like that.

It seems to me, based on the postings here, that the Youview concept was designed by committee and the engineering effort was included almost as an afterthought. That said, first iterations of new platforms are always (IMHO) left wanting, when compared to more established offerings. The big challenge that I see is that the rest of Europe is aligning itself with HbbTV, so we have the Youview platform that is clearly UK-centric and as a result, won't end-up with the same 'critical mass' of support in the longer term.

The Humax box to me sounds like a Youview box with Freeview/PVR functionality added almost as a sop. The fact that it doesn't carry the Freeview logo (as reported elsewhere) suggests to me that those features that we value in other established PVRs are unlikely to surface in the medium to longer term, if at all.

For me, the idea of Youview has some benefits in providing simple access to catch-up TV. It's clearly not going to offer everything that I was hoping/expecting but does appear to deliver a simple, easy to use platform. Not being able to skip commercials is hardly a surprise, and annoying as it may be, that's not going to go away.

GBP300 is too expensive for a Youview box with such limited Freeview/PVR capabilities. I'm waiting for an STB-type version of the box. It's been suggested that this may surface at some point. I'm unlikely to try Youview unless an STB option presents itself, or the existing PVR drops in price to ~GBP100. What's on offer is too expensive.

Time will tell, I suppose. Pity, because I'm in the mood to buy a new gadget and help stimulate the UK economy, assuming that SWMBO lets me.


Clem

The FFwd button works so you can skip adverts in PVR recorded content. There aren't specific skip forwards/backwards buttons as on the HDR Fox T2 so it's a bit harder, but FFwd works fine. Having said that, my parents find the HDR Fox T2 skip backwards/forwards buttons too confusing (they claim they "get lost") and they use FFwd and Rewind anyway.

I have both Humax HDR Fox T2 and DTR-T1000. I had hoped the DTR-T1000 would replace the HDR Fox T2 but I'm going to have to keep both of them. I'll use the DTR-T1000 for catch-up TV only and the HDR Fox T2 for everything else.

I disagree that YouView provides a simple, easy to use platform. My main concerns assuming it's meant to be a basic cut down box (ie. not appeal to me as a user) are:

* It takes too many button presses to do things, like watching recordings. I replaced my Aunt's Pace Twin with an HDR Fox T2 a year ago, and her first question was "where's the Library button on the remote?". She could cope with it being now called "Media", but was worried she'd have to go into menus to find her recordings. Youview would force her into the menus to find them. She's squarely in the target market for YouView, and I know she wouldn't be able to cope with this aspect.

* The schedule list is confusing, showing repeating items as two events ie. one for the next episode and a second for the repeat (I got confused as to what was going on the first time I saw this).

* It takes forever to switch on, and I am not disabling Eco mode and having it consume 16 Watts in standby! My father who is also in the target market would be unhappy at that kind of power consumption.

* There are multiple menus which do the same thing. Signal strength appears twice in different settings menus, as does the page that shows what software versions are in the box.

I also have a Humax Freesat which is my main box. This is a few years old and you can get iplayer and itv player on it. The folder option I find invaluable especially if your recording a series over a few weeks, then it ends up in the folder and not all over the place on your hard drive with movies and over tv shows all over the place. The Edit option is also an important one Channel 4 for example some of the programs you never get the last minute of them. I emailed them about this a while back and they said that it was hard to schedule tv shows on time with everything that was on.

Now I use the edit feature. What I used to do was catch up of 4OD which youview users will have to do now. I'm really glad I never jumped in and bought one as I couldn't find enough info about it on the internet and was going to get one on Monday but talked myself out of it. The freesat box will be my PVR now for the next few years until Humax decide to release a youview satellite box and it will have to be an upgraded service with all the features I'm used to before I buy it.

Indeed - i think we have proved the adage that irony doesn't carry well on the Internet.

It is interesting to see the reaction to the DTR-T1000 here. Why the bad karma? It's clearly not aiming to provide the same feature set at the as other Humax products - Humax have had to work with someone else's specification and middleware. But it's as if people feel personally affronted that this is not the successor to the HDR-T2. If people are prepared to pay £300 for this box, then that is their decision - I have bought one as I needed a new PVR and I don't feel scammed. But equally I understand that it may not meet the requirements of others.

But I do think that it will meet the requirements of the majority of its target market.

PS regarding folders, you can sort recordings A-Z which has a similar benefit to folders as it groups episodes of a programme together on the list to choose from.

Two problems, there are many ocassions where the contents of a series have different names. The only obvious connection is the series crid.

I currently have around 40 or 50 series folders (about 600GB) containing say an average of 4 episodes in each. If not in folders that's a hell of a lot of individual episodes to work through.

Wow, why on earth would someone buy this instead of a HDR-FOX T2?

I've love my HDR-FOX T2 with custom firmware its even better!

£300 for such a limited functionality is a joke though. Why would someone that wouldn't pay £200 for a PVR pay £300 for one of these things?

It's a good question. At the moment I'd argue catchup alone isn't going to be enough of a pull when you consider the extra expense and the fact the PVR side of things is less advanced than hardware around two thirds cheaper.

I get the argument that this is a product for the masses and so certain things have been simplified and features left out for that reason, but I don't see how something basic like a favourites list falls into this category. My parents are total technophobes and yet they wouldn't be without this feature. It seems to be more about control and limiting what the users can do with a bit of kit capable of far more. Pretty much every other box on the market offers it, does it not? So I don't really see who benefits from Youview not offering this feature, especially as services from BBC/ITV/C4/C5 are very unlikely to be left off any favourite lists anyway. With the vast majority of boxes supporting this user friendly timesaving feature, it's madness not to offer it on a box that claims to be a cut above.

This is what I actually miss (rather than a theoretical list) compared to the HD-FOX T2:

1. No search of EPG
It's amazing that this isn't supported. This is all I used to use, pretty much. Scrolling through 113 channels and 7 days back and forth to find something isn't really realistic.

Without this feature how would I know for example if/when Inspector Montalbano comes back on?

2. No favourite list / edit channels
OK so this is just a convenience issue but I used to have a channel list with BBCHD 1HD 2 3 4, ITV1HD 2 3 4, and so on. Now I have to scroll up and down through 113 channels of things like the jewellery channel spamming up my screen to find proper TV.

3. No surround sound
A real pity when so much Olympic coverage seems to be in surround sound.

Where is the IPTV that was promised?

Where is the on-demand archive of films and TV series?

All it really offers is easy access to the catch-up services, which are usually only needed if you fail to set the record.

"Freeview for the forgetful."

Disappointment.

Oh, and probably the hope that they'll take the comments on board and improve it!


The argument made by someone else that "they left these features out because it's a mass market product" doesn't make sense to me. The other Humax boxes are mass market products too! There are mass market TVs with far more features in.

To me, this doesn't look like a conscious decision to dumb the thing down - it looks like it's not quite finished yet. I hope I'm right.

Cheers,
David.

Assuming standard settings, tell them press the forward button twice, if they see the programme has started press the reverse button once. Takes seconds and works pretty well every time. At worst you suffer a few seconds of the end of the ads.

Well you don't really need that aspect of it either. With the proper Humax boxes you can just search the EPG for what you missed and it will be on a week later at 3 in the morning or something.

I am guessing the reason the box does not carry the Freeview HD logo is purely because they were in a rush to get Youview to market and not all of the features needed to meet the standard were ready in time.

Hopefully some of the things missing like support for the IPTV channels will be added through future firmware updates.

P.S. I have decided to keep the box for now. I will let you know when I get home how I get on with it.

There's an EPG search on the existing boxes? Where? I have an HDR Fox T2 and I've never noticed it. Not that I've ever looked for it since it isn't something I've felt a need for.