[ilovecorrie2]

Originally Posted by JWDrama1980

the character of Norris is no longer funny. He has been downright evil and mean. I highly enjoy that he is finally getting what he deserves. (It's a soap, not real life)

Evil and mean? Norris? I think you'll find Tracy is the one who killed someone in cold blood not Norris.

[Catmittens]

We're overlooking something very important. If Tracy locked Norris in his bedroom, why was he sticking his head out of Emily's front bedroom window? I NEED ANSWERS.

[ilovecorrie2]

Originally Posted by laurenlawson

Pathetic attempt at humour. The only good parts of tonights episodes were Kirsty/Tyrone, even that is getting boring now.

I wouldn't have said it's getting "boring" but if someone continues to put up with behaviour like that then you do tend to lose sympathy with them and in the end, interest.

[ilovecorrie2]

Originally Posted by billio

Making her a murderer, while she is a long term character and a Barlow, was such a mistake. The programme needs to keep its moral core intact, and that's compromised each time we're invited to side with Tracy and find her "antics" amusing.

An attempt by programme makers to humanise murderers no doubt. Hey look guys she may have committed a murder but she's still human which is true but I still don't think they should trivialise what she's done and that's what they're doing by ridiculing Norris and suggesting he's the one in the wrong. When someone has committed a murder, it's only natural people are going to be wary of them. They are not going to be trusted by most people (and not just the Norris's of this world) and for good reason.

[KornerKabin]

Originally Posted by Catmittens

We're overlooking something very important. If Tracy locked Norris in his bedroom, why was he sticking his head out of Emily's front bedroom window? I NEED ANSWERS.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This really annoyed me too!

[ilovecorrie2]

Originally Posted by VoodooChic

I just want one scene with Tracy on her own or with Deirdre looking at a photo of Charlie and breaking down. Tracy isn't a killer - okay she killed so she is a killer - but at the time her mind wasn't quite right. She was playing so many mind games with everyone she lost hold of reality. That's how I can accept her as I DO love Tracy and especially with Kate Ford playing her.
A scene with some remorse would be welcome.

"at the time her mind wasn't quite right" Yeah I guess that's how they must live with what they've done. It wasn't me guv - an alien took over my brain. To suggest her mind wasn't quite right is in a way absolving her of guilt but yes it would be nice to see some sort of remorse - even Tony Gordon got that far but I don't think Tracy has EVER shown any remorse so it's disturbing that programme makers want us to sympathise with her.

[KornerKabin]

Originally Posted by ilovecorrie2

"at the time her mind wasn't quite right" Yeah I guess that's how they must live with what they've done. It wasn't me guv - an alien took over my brain. To suggest her mind wasn't quite right is in a way absolving her of guilt but yes it would be nice to see some sort of remorse - even Tony Gordon got that far but I don't think Tracy has EVER shown any remorse so it's disturbing that programme makers want us to sympathise with her.

Sorry ilovecorrie but I think you're reading far too much into this

This story came out of a period that the current production team clearly wants to forget. As I've suggested, other stories that played out at around the same time are either downplayed or completely forgotten about (Hayley's secret son and Michelle's baby swap being two prime examples). In fact, some of them are pretty embarrassing.

It might sound crazy to you but I find Tracy a much more believable and rounded character now than she ever was in 2006/2007. I'm happy for the show to 'break the rules' to allow Tracy back on our screens - but I understand that it's quite difficult for others to accept.

I just wish the murder had never happened in the first place.

[mulderfan]

Originally Posted by desperate house

Horrid character. They should have locked her up and thrown away the key.

Makes me cringe every time I see her big red-lipped mouth and hear her whining voice. YUK

how I agree cannot stand the character

[ilovecorrie2]

Originally Posted by KornerKabin

Sorry ilovecorrie but I think you're reading far too much into this

I don't think I am. Whenever soaps have killers on the show then the usual pattern is to have them written out completely (more often than not by killing them off) and that's more or less saying we think this behaviour is totally unacceptable so this character must never be seen again. Whereas in Tracy's case she's not only still on screen but we ARE expected to sympathise with her. What sort of warped nation do programme makers want us to become when they want us to laugh at a character because he doesn't trust a convicted murderer? It's normal, natural extinct to not trust someone like that.

This story came out of a period that the current production team clearly wants to forget.

But they can't forget it as witnessed by yesterday's run-in with Norris. And I'd say well done to them for raising the question of trust where Tracy's concerned but I disagree totally with the way it's been done - making it seem as though all should trust her regardless of what she's done in the past.

[dory353]

Why isn't Tracy living with Ken and Deirdre again?

[scone]

Originally Posted by Catmittens

We're overlooking something very important. If Tracy locked Norris in his bedroom, why was he sticking his head out of Emily's front bedroom window? I NEED ANSWERS.

We aren't supposed to think that, because if he did find a way into Emily's room, perhaps via a secret door, then he could have escaped via Emily's room and why didn't Emily shout up, "Why are you in my bedroom?" Perhaps this is Norris' bedroom, maybe Emily sleeps at the back, we demand to see a floor plan of the place, most of these houses make no sense, they are like the tardis.

Incidently, I don't even know where Michelle is supposed to be living with that Ryan imposter, I can work out it's a flat, but I thought she was staying at Carla's and then it turned out Carla had tenants and now Rob has moved into Carla's, I didn't even know Michelle had moved out of Carla's

[rockerchick]

After Emily got attacked by murderer Richard Hillman why does she want traceyluv in her house again?

[KornerKabin]

Originally Posted by ilovecorrie2

I don't think I am. Whenever soaps have killers on the show then the usual pattern is to have them written out completely (more often than not by killing them off) and that's more or less saying we think this behaviour is totally unacceptable so this character must never be seen again. Whereas in Tracy's case she's not only still on screen but we ARE expected to sympathise with her. What sort of warped nation do programme makers want us to become when they want us to laugh at a character because he doesn't trust a convicted murderer? It's normal, natural extinct to not trust someone like that.



But they can't forget it as witnessed by yesterday's run-in with Norris. And I'd say well done to them for raising the question of trust where Tracy's concerned but I disagree totally with the way it's been done - making it seem as though all should trust her regardless of what she's done in the past.

Fair enough - I'm going to bow out of this discussion now

[ilovecorrie2]

Originally Posted by dory353

Why isn't Tracy living with Ken and Deirdre again?

Because Ken won't have her in the house - not because of the murder but because she lied about Becky pushing her down the stairs. I would have thought a little thing like a murder might have been the last straw for Ken but apparently not - it was Tracy telling lies that did it for him.

[ilovecorrie2]

Originally Posted by KornerKabin

Fair enough - I'm going to bow out of this discussion now

Aw! ...

[jsmith99]

Originally Posted by KornerKabin

...........I just wish the murder had never happened in the first place.

So, I imagine, does charlie stubbs.

Originally Posted by KornerKabin

Fair enough - I'm going to bow out of this discussion now

Ah, don't do that ...I wanted to put my bit in :

You can't argue that tracy suddenly snapped and lost control, or use any other argument involving her mind becoming disturbed. For weeks (or months) beforehand, she'd been arranging events so that people thought charlie was physically abusing her. Thus allowing her to kill him and claim self defence.

That kind of cold blooded planning speaks of a very clear mind.

[Catmittens]

Surely Rita and Emily believe what they have been told over the last couple of years - that the original evidence has been discredited and that is why Tracy was released. Also, neither of them saw the murder take place... they could easily assume that it was self-defence. After all, Charlie's reputation for abusing women (Shelley) was well known by that point, wasn't it? All they doing were chastising Norris for being ungrateful - someone was offering to clean his room for him!

We need to stop nit-picking - all that "story" was about was Tracy taking advantage of Norris' paranoia. Nothing more, nothing less!

Originally Posted by scone

We aren't supposed to think that, because if he did find a way into Emily's room, perhaps via a secret door, then he could have escaped via Emily's room and why didn't Emily shout up, "Why are you in my bedroom?" Perhaps this is Norris' bedroom, maybe Emily sleeps at the back, we demand to see a floor plan of the place, most of these houses make no sense, they are like the tardis.

It was established years ago that the front bedroom was Emily's. There was a storyline involving Baldwin's Factory putting up a neon sign which shone directly through the front bedroom window of No. 3. I'm pretty sure there was also a reference towards Norris having the back bedroom - "I can only sleep facing south" or somesuch comment like that. Don't know how I've managed to remember that.

[billio]

Originally Posted by jsmith99

You can't argue that tracy suddenly snapped and lost control, or use any other argument involving her mind becoming disturbed. For weeks (or months) beforehand, she'd been arranging events so that people thought charlie was physically abusing her. Thus allowing her to kill him and claim self defence.

That kind of cold blooded planning speaks of a very clear mind.

Yes, and there was no need; she could have easily left him, or got him to leave the street, as she had the neighbours on her family's side.

When Ruth Ellis was hanged (something I don't agree with) for shooting her lover after years of bad treatment, someone wounded by a stray bullet said that if Ellis wasn't punished, every disappointed woman in the country would be killing men.

Tracy has to show remorse, but it's clear from her willingness to let Gail serve a life sentence, whilst innocent, and to make Becky look like a babykiller, that she is, at least, a sociopath, and maybe a psychopath. Not someone I want my light entertainment from.

[ilovecorrie2]

Originally Posted by Catmittens

Surely Rita and Emily believe what they have been told over the last couple of years - that the original evidence has been discredited and that is why Tracy was released. Also, neither of them saw the murder take place... they could easily assume that it was self-defence. After all, Charlie's reputation for abusing women (Shelley) was well known by that point, wasn't it? All they doing were chastising Norris for being ungrateful - someone was offering to clean his room for him!

We need to stop nit-picking - all that "story" was about was Tracy taking advantage of Norris' paranoia. Nothing more, nothing less!

And if it involved anyone other than Tracy I would agree with you but Tracy killed someone in cold blood so it isn't just about Norris's paranoia - it's about scriptwriters trying to make it seem that you should have nothing to fear from a cold blooded murderer. Sorry but the fact that she killed someone can't just be swept under the carpet and suddenly we're expected to think of her as Mary Poppins.

David Platt's went through a phase of being quite psycho at one time but his character has turned around and we can accept that because he didn't kill anyone. But I don't think Tracy Barlow's character will ever be the same again because you can't undo what she did - there's no making amends for that (not that she'd ever want to as she's never shown any remorse anyway).. I think I'd have preferred Tony Gordon's character to remain rather than Tracy Barlow because he at least showed some remorse.

[leeruk]

Originally Posted by dory353

Why isn't Tracy living with Ken and Deirdre again?

because ken found his backbone

[KornerKabin]

Originally Posted by jsmith99

So, I imagine, does charlie stubbs.

Ah, don't do that ...I wanted to put my bit in :

You can't argue that tracy suddenly snapped and lost control, or use any other argument involving her mind becoming disturbed. For weeks (or months) beforehand, she'd been arranging events so that people thought charlie was physically abusing her. Thus allowing her to kill him and claim self defence.

That kind of cold blooded planning speaks of a very clear mind.

OK, I'm back in the hotseat

I'm not arguing that at all - I know and accept that Tracy orchestrated every single element of Charlie's murder. That's a done deal. Tracy murdered Charlie in cold blood.

... and there's the problem ... she knew exactly what she was doing. Tracy is, thus, ruined as a character. The soap rules dictate, as ilovecorrie outlined, that any murderer must be punished. That's the end of Tracy Barlow.

The production team must've been out of their minds to have agreed to Tracy being a killer. Desperation springs to mind. They must've known that either :

• Kate Ford would've wanted to come back at some point (definitely not in 15 years time!)

or

• Tracy is so integral to the Barlows that future production teams would want her back at some point (even recast, though I do love Kate Ford).

Alas, no, they weren't thinking beyond that story and Tracy bludgeoned Charlie to death. 30 years of a character down the pan in the space of a few weeks. Nevermind the impact that it must've had on Bill Roache, Anne Kirkbride and the rest of the Barlows. Anne Kirkbride in particular must've been really disappointed to see the most integral part of her character's life turned into a killer to fulfil a storyline. Years of work from an actress done away with in moments.

I do class this as the biggest mistake in the history of Coronation Street.

I can, however, gloss over the whole disastrous mess as Tracy is too important a character for me to write off. For my own sanity, I have to take the whole thing with a big pinch of salt otherwise it'd stop my enjoyment of Corrie.

[Oldnjaded]

Originally Posted by KornerKabin

OK, I'm back in the hotseat

I'm not arguing that at all - I know and accept that Tracy orchestrated every single element of Charlie's murder. That's a done deal. Tracy murdered Charlie in cold blood.

... and there's the problem ... she knew exactly what she was doing. Tracy is, thus, ruined as a character. The soap rules dictate, as ilovecorrie outlined, that any murderer must be punished. That's the end of Tracy Barlow.

The production team must've been out of their minds to have agreed to Tracy being a killer. Desperation springs to mind. They must've known that either :

• Kate Ford would've wanted to come back at some point (definitely not in 15 years time!)

or

• Tracy is so integral to the Barlows that future production teams would want her back at some point (even recast, though I do love Kate Ford).

Alas, no, they weren't thinking beyond that story and Tracy bludgeoned Charlie to death. 30 years of a character down the pan in the space of a few weeks. Nevermind the impact that it must've had on Bill Roache, Anne Kirkbride and the rest of the Barlows. Anne Kirkbride in particular must've been really disappointed to see the most integral part of her character's life turned into a killer to fulfil a storyline. Years of work from an actress done away with in moments.

I do class this as the biggest mistake in the history of Coronation Street.

I can, however, gloss over the whole disastrous mess as Tracy is too important a character for me to write off. For my own sanity, I have to take the whole thing with a big pinch of salt otherwise it'd stop my enjoyment of Corrie.

Even though you hate the best character on the street (Steve), I totally agree with you on this one. Yes, there are no excuses whatsoever for the murderous Tracy, for which I entirely blame the writers who couldn't resist jumping the shark.

At the same time, Tracy has given us many many years of laughs and outrage as the one we all love to hate, so I too am willing to suspend disbelief for Tracy, for the simple reason that the street would be the poorer without her OTT but hugely entertaining character.

[ilovecorrie2]

Originally Posted by KornerKabin

I can, however, gloss over the whole disastrous mess as Tracy is too important a character for me to write off. For my own sanity, I have to take the whole thing with a big pinch of salt otherwise it'd stop my enjoyment of Corrie.

But isn't that like saying murder's no biggie?

[KornerKabin]

Originally Posted by ilovecorrie2

But isn't that like saying murder's no biggie?

I don't look on Coronation Street as a guide for my morality. I watch it to be entertained.

[KornerKabin]

Originally Posted by Oldnjaded

Even though you hate the best character on the street (Steve), I totally agree with you on this one. Yes, there are no excuses whatsoever for the murderous Tracy, for which I entirely blame the writers who couldn't resist jumping the shark.

At the same time, Tracy has given us many many years of laughs and outrage as the one we all love to hate, so I too am willing to suspend disbelief for Tracy, for the simple reason that the street would be the poorer without her OTT but hugely entertaining character.

Let me just get one thing straight here ...

I don't hate Steve, I just hate the direction he's gone in over the past year or so. He's a total buffoon and not a patch on the great character he really is.

That is all