2G Network Closure

Everything Goes · 04-08-2012, 07:12

Ameican phone company AT&T have announced that they intend to close their 2G network on 1st January 2017. Apparently on 12% of their subscribers use 2G only.

I wonder if any of the UK networks are planning to do this. O2 and Vodafone are already using their old 2G 900Mhz for 3G. Im sure we have more 2G only subscribers than AT&T. But it must be on the cards at some point.

http://m.engadget.com/2012/08/03/att-plans-to-shut-down-entire-2g-network-by-2017/?icid=eng_latest_art

ney · 04-08-2012, 08:31

Untill the likes of 02 improve there 3g network coverage. There is no way 2g will close. Parts of North Scotland dont have 3g coverage on any network. I have been just past Perth a few times this year and there is no 3g coverage unless you are in Perth.

Darren

Everything Goes · 04-08-2012, 09:46

Obviously O2 are a good example of not to run a 3G network (unless you are an accountant looking to save money by making a minimal investment)

In Japan Softbank switched off their 2G network in March 2010 followed by NTT DoCoMo in March 2011.

It will happen eventually. Im sure people said they would never switch off 1G but it happened.

fmradiotuner1 · 04-08-2012, 10:14

In Many parts of Clacton I only get 2G on my S2 on T-Mobile.
3G goes where I live but just down the road where the main town is it can be really hard to get a signal where the shops are.
Really surprised its not improved at all round here and three can be the same.

niceguy1966 · 04-08-2012, 10:30

One of the reasons to switch off 2G is to reuse the frequency for 3G. So the 3G coverage should improve after 2G is turned off. 900MHz has much better penetration of walls than the normal 3G frequencies (2.1 GHz I seem to remember). 3G at 900 MHz is good for everyone except those with a 2G only phone or 2G only subscription (both of these are likely to be low spending groups, so the operators aren't too worried if they change network ).

Thine Wonk · 04-08-2012, 10:51

O2 have a lot of work to do before they could do that as others have said.

If Ofcom set a date I think that would be really cool, there's nothing you can do on 2g that you can't do on 3g and you can get 3g phones quite cheap these days even if you don't want the mobile internet services.

I think it would be a good move.

jjesso123 · 04-08-2012, 11:25

Why is it two countries with high population can manage to do this but we can't ?

alan1302 · 04-08-2012, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjesso123

Why is it two countries with high population can manage to do this but we can't ?

Who says we can't?

Daveoc64 · 04-08-2012, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjesso123

Why is it two countries with high population can manage to do this but we can't ?

In the US, they have regional networks.

While AT&T is a national network, it doesn't have a licence in every state, so it doesn't have as big a network as you'd expect.

AT&T also happens to have a terrible reputation for coverage and customer service.

As an aside, the networks in the US are considered to be far more expensive and unreliable than the networks over here.

Martin Phillp · 04-08-2012, 16:51

Can't see it happening yet, while there's a healthy market for smartphones in the UK, there are still plenty of customers who use budget phones or the growing market in easy to use mobiles for older people, which only use 2G.

niceguy1966 · 04-08-2012, 17:59

Coverage in the USA is far worse than in the UK, they focus on the cities and highways and leave a lot gaps where farms or country lanes are.

The USA is also far happier to ditch old technology than Europeans. They are queuing up to buy the next big thing and accept that something they bought could be outdated after a couple of years.

In the UK we are very lucky to have the coverage we have on all major networks. Turning off 2G and reusing the frequency for 3G could increase total capacity, improve data rates and reduce the need for inter system hangovers (a common cause of dropped calls)

reclusive46 · 04-08-2012, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by niceguy1966

Coverage in the USA is far worse than in the UK, they focus on the cities and highways and leave a lot gaps where farms or country lanes are.

The USA is also far happier to ditch old technology than Europeans. They are queuing up to buy the next big thing and accept that something they bought could be outdated after a couple of years.

In the UK we are very lucky to have the coverage we have on all major networks. Turning off 2G and reusing the frequency for 3G could increase total capacity, improve data rates and reduce the need for inter system hangovers (a common cause of dropped calls)

I've lived in the US and never experienced these types of problems in the US on Verizon or AT&T. Infact many states have regional carriers as well, which pay monthly customers of the major networks can roam onto for free. I've found 3G (Well Verizions sort of 3G) to cover the majority of the country and 4G LTE covers much of it now (Not on AT&T admittedly)

Step666 · 04-08-2012, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by reclusive46

I've found 3G (Well Verizions sort of 3G) to cover the majority of the country and 4G LTE covers much of it now (Not on AT&T admittedly)

Whilst you're pretty much right about 3G coverage on Verizon, LTE coverage is absolutely nowhere near covering even half of the US.
Verizon have LTE coverage in 330 'markets' (or, in English, 330 cities) with little-to-no attention being paid to more rural areas - as illustrated by this map.

I understand it's completely different to the UK due to the way in which the population is distributed across the country but in terms of overall coverage, I doubt any US network would measure up to the UK networks - not even O2.

swills · 04-08-2012, 22:24

When I was on my hols in the USA last year everyhting seemed to revolve around AT&T, and 4G seemed to be the 'norm' but where I live twixt Colchester & Clacton, not only is 3G only a dream most days, 2G is not much better, VF was absolute pants, so ditiched them, my son has 02 that does not seem much better, now gone with 3, whose coverage although badly lacking seems a tad better then the other two !

monkeysoap · 04-08-2012, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjesso123

Why is it two countries with high population can manage to do this but we can't ?

Oh, boohoo, do stop your whinging!

It's not like switching off 2G will cure cancer or bring world peace!

Step666 · 04-08-2012, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by swills

When I was on my hols in the USA last year everyhting seemed to revolve around AT&T, and 4G seemed to be the 'norm'

Only because the likes of AT&T and T-Mobile in the US are marketing 3G as 4G.

Proper 4G (LTE) requires an altogether different handset from '4G' as some of the US networks advertise it.

neo_wales · 05-08-2012, 01:17

Get out into the sticks in the States and cell phone signals are truly awful, we have much better coverage in the UK overall.

AyeJay · 05-08-2012, 01:59

EE are planning on using their 2G spectrum for LTE so I guess despite the money they (will) make off (LTE) smartphones outweighs that they will make off existing 2G only phones.

Considering o2 & Vodaphone are waiting it out for the spectrum auction they seem to have no plans to follow suit.

AyeJay · 05-08-2012, 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Step666

Only because the likes of AT&T and T-Mobile in the US are marketing 3G as 4G.

Proper 4G (LTE) requires an altogether different handset from '4G' as some of the US networks advertise it.

They're marketing HSPA+ (3.5G) as 4G. 3G is HSPA.

zantarous · 05-08-2012, 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by neo_wales

Get out into the sticks in the States and cell phone signals are truly awful, we have much better coverage in the UK overall.

I thought too but my mum lives in the middle of no where and when I was their in June I had HSPA+ on my handset in doors with five bars.

As for turning of 2G they will start doing it so the networks can ruse the frequency for LTE services.

nigelbb · 05-08-2012, 08:12

They can't possibly turn off 3G when so many people use phones that are 2G only.

ba_baracus · 05-08-2012, 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by nigelbb

They can't possibly turn off 3G when so many people use phones that are 2G only.

The same was probably also said about analogue TV. But that's happened.

Step666 · 05-08-2012, 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ba_baracus

The same was probably also said about analogue TV. But that's happened.

But for years and years beforehand, only digital-capable TVs were sold.
There are plenty of non-3G phones still on the market.

Everything Goes · 05-08-2012, 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ba_baracus

The same was probably also said about analogue TV. But that's happened.

People tend to forget that if they are on Vodafone or O2 the frequency they use on 900Mhz used to be part of their analogue mobile phone service which got switched off in 2001.

Thine Wonk · 05-08-2012, 11:32

They stopped supporting pagers, 1G phones, analogue tv, the first gen digital set top boxes are now obsolete.

The average mobile lifespan is 2-3 years. I think 2g only folks should expect the operators to gradually start moving over frequencies to 4g services over the next few years with a total cut over of at least 1 network in maybe 5 years in the uk.

04-08-2012, 07:12	#1
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	2G Network Closure Ameican phone company AT&T have announced that they intend to close their 2G network on 1st January 2017. Apparently on 12% of their subscribers use 2G only. I wonder if any of the UK networks are planning to do this. O2 and Vodafone are already using their old 2G 900Mhz for 3G. Im sure we have more 2G only subscribers than AT&T. But it must be on the cards at some point. http://m.engadget.com/2012/08/03/att-plans-to-shut-down-entire-2g-network-by-2017/?icid=eng_latest_art

04-08-2012, 08:31	#2
ney Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Scotland, Dunfermline Area Posts: 10,704	Untill the likes of 02 improve there 3g network coverage. There is no way 2g will close. Parts of North Scotland dont have 3g coverage on any network. I have been just past Perth a few times this year and there is no 3g coverage unless you are in Perth. Darren

04-08-2012, 09:46	#3
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Obviously O2 are a good example of not to run a 3G network (unless you are an accountant looking to save money by making a minimal investment) In Japan Softbank switched off their 2G network in March 2010 followed by NTT DoCoMo in March 2011. It will happen eventually. Im sure people said they would never switch off 1G but it happened.

04-08-2012, 10:14	#4
fmradiotuner1 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: TheEssexSunshineCoast Clacton Posts: 15,220	In Many parts of Clacton I only get 2G on my S2 on T-Mobile. 3G goes where I live but just down the road where the main town is it can be really hard to get a signal where the shops are. Really surprised its not improved at all round here and three can be the same.

04-08-2012, 10:30	#5
niceguy1966 Forum Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 12,488	One of the reasons to switch off 2G is to reuse the frequency for 3G. So the 3G coverage should improve after 2G is turned off. 900MHz has much better penetration of walls than the normal 3G frequencies (2.1 GHz I seem to remember). 3G at 900 MHz is good for everyone except those with a 2G only phone or 2G only subscription (both of these are likely to be low spending groups, so the operators aren't too worried if they change network ).

04-08-2012, 10:51	#6
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	O2 have a lot of work to do before they could do that as others have said. If Ofcom set a date I think that would be really cool, there's nothing you can do on 2g that you can't do on 3g and you can get 3g phones quite cheap these days even if you don't want the mobile internet services. I think it would be a good move.

04-08-2012, 11:25	#7
jjesso123 Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,505	Why is it two countries with high population can manage to do this but we can't ?

04-08-2012, 13:50	#8
alan1302 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West Yorks Posts: 6,180	Quote: Originally Posted by jjesso123 Why is it two countries with high population can manage to do this but we can't ? Who says we can't?

04-08-2012, 16:01	#9
Daveoc64 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol (BBC1 West) Posts: 15,143	Quote: Originally Posted by jjesso123 Why is it two countries with high population can manage to do this but we can't ? In the US, they have regional networks. While AT&T is a national network, it doesn't have a licence in every state, so it doesn't have as big a network as you'd expect. AT&T also happens to have a terrible reputation for coverage and customer service. As an aside, the networks in the US are considered to be far more expensive and unreliable than the networks over here.

04-08-2012, 16:51	#10
Martin Phillp Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: London Posts: 20,282	Can't see it happening yet, while there's a healthy market for smartphones in the UK, there are still plenty of customers who use budget phones or the growing market in easy to use mobiles for older people, which only use 2G.

04-08-2012, 17:59	#11
niceguy1966 Forum Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 12,488	Coverage in the USA is far worse than in the UK, they focus on the cities and highways and leave a lot gaps where farms or country lanes are. The USA is also far happier to ditch old technology than Europeans. They are queuing up to buy the next big thing and accept that something they bought could be outdated after a couple of years. In the UK we are very lucky to have the coverage we have on all major networks. Turning off 2G and reusing the frequency for 3G could increase total capacity, improve data rates and reduce the need for inter system hangovers (a common cause of dropped calls)

04-08-2012, 20:52	#12
reclusive46 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Norwich Posts: 570	Quote: Originally Posted by niceguy1966 Coverage in the USA is far worse than in the UK, they focus on the cities and highways and leave a lot gaps where farms or country lanes are. The USA is also far happier to ditch old technology than Europeans. They are queuing up to buy the next big thing and accept that something they bought could be outdated after a couple of years. In the UK we are very lucky to have the coverage we have on all major networks. Turning off 2G and reusing the frequency for 3G could increase total capacity, improve data rates and reduce the need for inter system hangovers (a common cause of dropped calls) I've lived in the US and never experienced these types of problems in the US on Verizon or AT&T. Infact many states have regional carriers as well, which pay monthly customers of the major networks can roam onto for free. I've found 3G (Well Verizions sort of 3G) to cover the majority of the country and 4G LTE covers much of it now (Not on AT&T admittedly)

04-08-2012, 22:09	#13
Step666 Forum Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,274	Quote: Originally Posted by reclusive46 I've found 3G (Well Verizions sort of 3G) to cover the majority of the country and 4G LTE covers much of it now (Not on AT&T admittedly) Whilst you're pretty much right about 3G coverage on Verizon, LTE coverage is absolutely nowhere near covering even half of the US. Verizon have LTE coverage in 330 'markets' (or, in English, 330 cities) with little-to-no attention being paid to more rural areas - as illustrated by this map. I understand it's completely different to the UK due to the way in which the population is distributed across the country but in terms of overall coverage, I doubt any US network would measure up to the UK networks - not even O2.

04-08-2012, 22:24	#14
swills Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Essex Posts: 3,906	When I was on my hols in the USA last year everyhting seemed to revolve around AT&T, and 4G seemed to be the 'norm' but where I live twixt Colchester & Clacton, not only is 3G only a dream most days, 2G is not much better, VF was absolute pants, so ditiched them, my son has 02 that does not seem much better, now gone with 3, whose coverage although badly lacking seems a tad better then the other two !

04-08-2012, 22:30	#15
monkeysoap Inactive Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Lyon, France Posts: 56	Quote: Originally Posted by jjesso123 Why is it two countries with high population can manage to do this but we can't ? Oh, boohoo, do stop your whinging! It's not like switching off 2G will cure cancer or bring world peace!

04-08-2012, 22:53	#16
Step666 Forum Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,274	Quote: Originally Posted by swills When I was on my hols in the USA last year everyhting seemed to revolve around AT&T, and 4G seemed to be the 'norm' Only because the likes of AT&T and T-Mobile in the US are marketing 3G as 4G. Proper 4G (LTE) requires an altogether different handset from '4G' as some of the US networks advertise it.

05-08-2012, 01:17	#17
neo_wales Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South Wales/Gran Canaria Posts: 8,298	Get out into the sticks in the States and cell phone signals are truly awful, we have much better coverage in the UK overall.

05-08-2012, 01:59	#18
AyeJay Guest Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 186	EE are planning on using their 2G spectrum for LTE so I guess despite the money they (will) make off (LTE) smartphones outweighs that they will make off existing 2G only phones. Considering o2 & Vodaphone are waiting it out for the spectrum auction they seem to have no plans to follow suit.

05-08-2012, 02:00	#19
AyeJay Guest Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 186	Quote: Originally Posted by Step666 Only because the likes of AT&T and T-Mobile in the US are marketing 3G as 4G. Proper 4G (LTE) requires an altogether different handset from '4G' as some of the US networks advertise it. They're marketing HSPA+ (3.5G) as 4G. 3G is HSPA.

05-08-2012, 07:46	#20
zantarous Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ealing, London Posts: 2,140	Quote: Originally Posted by neo_wales Get out into the sticks in the States and cell phone signals are truly awful, we have much better coverage in the UK overall. I thought too but my mum lives in the middle of no where and when I was their in June I had HSPA+ on my handset in doors with five bars. As for turning of 2G they will start doing it so the networks can ruse the frequency for LTE services.

05-08-2012, 08:12	#21
nigelbb Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 834	They can't possibly turn off 3G when so many people use phones that are 2G only.

DS Forums

2G Network Closure

05-08-2012, 08:51	#22
ba_baracus Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,099	Quote: Originally Posted by nigelbb They can't possibly turn off 3G when so many people use phones that are 2G only. The same was probably also said about analogue TV. But that's happened.

05-08-2012, 10:24	#23
Step666 Forum Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,274	Quote: Originally Posted by ba_baracus The same was probably also said about analogue TV. But that's happened. But for years and years beforehand, only digital-capable TVs were sold. There are plenty of non-3G phones still on the market.

05-08-2012, 11:05	#24
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Quote: Originally Posted by ba_baracus The same was probably also said about analogue TV. But that's happened. People tend to forget that if they are on Vodafone or O2 the frequency they use on 900Mhz used to be part of their analogue mobile phone service which got switched off in 2001.

05-08-2012, 11:32	#25
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	They stopped supporting pagers, 1G phones, analogue tv, the first gen digital set top boxes are now obsolete. The average mobile lifespan is 2-3 years. I think 2g only folks should expect the operators to gradually start moving over frequencies to 4g services over the next few years with a total cut over of at least 1 network in maybe 5 years in the uk.