Neither am I I randomly <ahem> 'borrow'

Aww, don't spoil the illusion! Well it's very creatively borrowed then.

Happy birthday to our favourite Donkey!

Happy Birthday WonkeyDonkey .

I sometimes think I am living in a parallel universe! Some of the things I have read about Luke are simply unbelievable - I just cannot see anything to dislike about him. OK, he wasn't the favourite of a lot of people but he was not unlikeable in my opinion. I could make a long list of unlikeable housemates but Luke has shown no unlikeable traits.

When I read some of the comments about him in the MF, on Twitter and Facebook it just makes my blood boil so I rarely comment any more - it is too bad for my blood pressure!!

On a lighter note, a very, very happy Birthday WD. I hope it is a good one xxx

Great to see that Luke would have chosen Anthony Burns to go in as the wild card.

Happy birthday Wonkey Donkey!

Agree with this. I have no problem with people having different favs but Luke was always being kind, even to hms who were horrible to him - he was very rarely biting back and even when he did clearly felt bad about it. At least he tried to be civil even under severe provocation. He was never spiteful for the sake of it or to isolate a hm and get them nommed like the insiders did.

I also found him very funny. Him and Adam together brought some much needed light-hearted relief into a very dour series.

I agree. There are some housemates who are just so genuinely nice - I would include Rachel, Sam & Amanda and Luke in this group - who imho people should never be nasty about. Even if you preferred someone else or thought they were a bit boring/dimwitted/a fence-sitter etc (which you are perfectly entitled to think) to say horrible things about them or rank them low on the polls alongside the likes of Alexandra, Conor and Dennis is like picking on Bambi. For those who do, I really wonder what sort of people they are themselves and what sort of upbringing they had.

As regards the light-hearted relief of Luke and Adam together I'm still flipping fuming that we saw so little of it in the 'highlights'. I'd much rather have seen Luke and Adam having a laugh together and finding out how their friendship grew so strong than watch Ashleigh groping Luke S (sorry for bringing that image up but you get my drift).

Thanks! (I might have thanked you in three different online areas by now, but that is definitely the most artistic. It looks fantastic.)

Thanks again. Now (even) stouter after Persian meal.

Is there much competition for that title? I am still scarred by Luke saying that laurencelobster was his favourite lobster on twitter.

I suppose re. the nasty remarks, it is just a matter of some people having different boundaries. After a BB is over I don't really feel hostile to housemates unless they do something nasty again, as Kenneth and Billi have. It's just a game, everyone in it is under a load of pressure, and who wants to bear grudges really? So I tend to attack ex housemates without a lot of hostility, or with a bit of humour when I can. It seems quite shocking to me to see someone (who really did seem, as you say, pleasant even if not the kind of person to appeal to everyone) attacked in such savage terms. I am sure he is getting far worse criticism because he won though. Some people get really, bitterly hostile when someone they dislike wins.

It's a shame - as it is a shame that none of the interesting sounding conversations between the outsiders that were referred to in the BB twitter feed were ever shown, even a minute of them. To be fair, they DID tone down the Luke'n'Ashleigh stuff compared with some of the Ch 4 series. If they had dwelled on it like Ch 4 did with Ziggy and Chanelle I think I would have put a brick through my screen.

All I can think about Luke and Adam enjoying themselves is that it fell foul of the general BB policy of never showing housemates TRYING to be entertaining. So they never show song and dance routines, (which we know are very common) or mock tv shows or games of charades etc; it is only from what evicted housemates have said that we even know that such things happen. But it seems a bit harsh to extirpate (is that a word or have I just invented it?) every single incident of Luke and Adam trying to entertain THEMSELVES.

Yes and then it brings you back to this idea that they have pre-arranged story-lines that they wish to follow and largely ignore anything that doesn't fit. I'm sure if there had been live feed people would have been glued to the screen watching Adam and Luke bonding. They must have had some genuinely touching moments when they shared things about their previous lives and discovered how much they had in common even though superficially they are very different (as well as the obvious shared sense of humour we've discovered since they left) and how I wish we had been allowed to see them and talk about them.

This idea that they have a handful of people watching throughout the 24 hours and then editing footage to show what is happening is just laughable compared to the viewing public watching uncut live feed. For example, Deana says she was ostracised by a large part of the group for the first few weeks. She would go into a room and they would stop talking and she knew they were talking about her and then they would go elsewhere leaving her alone. Assuming this is true, SOME of the viewing public ie largely the perceptive female ones would pick up on this - I'm not sure the people Endemol/C5 have watching WOULD notice this, for all sorts of reasons involving how perceptive they are, what they are actually looking for, what they THINK is interesting, the housemates interactions they have already decided to focus on etc etc.

Yet they subjected us to plenty of Becky and Scott 'acting' amusing

(Apologies for such a short answer btw- my brain doesn't work until lots of coffee)

I think as a series goes on they try and contrive footage for very quiet housemates. As far as we could see Scott spent a lot of time sitting silenty by Caroline's side. The possibility that he was defecting from Caroline and forging a new relationship with Becky might have struck them as having story possibilities. And maybe they hoped that they would start doing amusing Alex'n'Tom type things (and I DID think some of their bits were funny) once Becky had stopped showing us how her thighs slapped together.

That reminds me of that wonderful moment during Turf Wars - possibly the single moment when Luke went from the bloke I liked to being my sure-fire winner - when Adam was being stitched up in the diary room.

Caroline (patronisingly as usual): "Adam has lots of good points."
Luke (quick as a flash and cucumber-cool): "Well what are his bad points because I can't see any?"

That shut her up pretty damn quick. Then he told Sara in no uncertain terms when she got uppity for no reason too. That was a good day for Luke.

Hi everyone,

Does anyone know if the exciting thing Luke was talking about is opening the Welsh Pride event or could there be something else on the horizon?

When did he say it? I am still a bit gobsmacked that festival campsites extend into October btw.

I'm sure he said (could have been a tweet) that his agent possibly had some exciting news then the next thing I heard was he was opening the Welsh pride event. I hate to be a party pooper but that doesn't sound overly exciting to me in terms of career advancement. I'm sure it's a great event to be a part of and I know Luke's looking forward to it but apart from officially declaring it open he could have gone anyway - didn't need to win BB to get it and it seems desperately predictable. Surely, the whole point of Luke is that he should be part of the mainstream media representing the trans community not sidelined into LGBT events. He's very articulate, the morning Chester radio show proved that he could handle live media (without using bad language), his attempt at the first chapter of his book proved he's more than capable of writing a newspaper column or something similar as well as that he's brainier than your average BB contestant, he's obviously a talented chef so, all in all, he has an awful lot to offer. The trouble is that any momentum that had built up from winning BB (which was precious little thanks to C5 trying to sweep it into oblivion after the Conor rant and the White Room disaster by running seamlessly into Celeb BB) has now been lost. It looks very much to me as if the agent has done as much good for Luke as he did for all last year's housemates - absolutely nothing.

I am always deeply sceptical when agents have 'exciting news', and think it is a great pity that the feelings of the people involved are played on in this way. I can think of several ex housemates who have genuinely believed they have been offered tv work, when all the agent has done is pitched a suggestion at a clearly uninterested tv company.

Sadly media work is a million miles away from being meritocratic: it is a combination of dumb luck and having contacts. Josie, for example, had a massive slice of luck in winning BB just at the time Ch 5 HAD to promote their new acquisition; purely by fluking into the right series she collared a tv series, several tv drop in slots and a magazine column. If Luke had been two years earlier he would have got the same level of attention and been infinitely better at the job. But he wasn't. All the signs are that Ch 5 and its associated magazines are willing to jettison all post bb attention in favour of CBB, which is presumably an easier sell.

That doesn't mean that it is all over for Luke. Like the three BB7 housemates who wrote successful books, he has an actual, good, non-BB story to tell; I really hope someone does pick up on it. And there is a completely different route into media work via local media; I always thought Aaron (before he settled for the bar) would have been far better trying to get into local sports radio than trying to pitch his own comedy show to Channel 5. Kate Lawler has had a weird, patchy media career, but when the celeb stuff dried up is an example of someone who focused on what she actually loved and eventually got a reputable job on national radio. Adele is another one who moved from local to national radio.

And the other thing is that it is obvious that people do actually LIKE Luke, which helps a lot. It was clear that the BB crew really did like him as a person, not just as a 'great housemate'. It never does any harm to gain a reputation as a likeable, reliable person.

Good points, as ever, wonkey. Although the momentum from BB, such as it was, has gone, Luke still has an interesting story to tell and I hope he does get the chance to tell it. Fortunately the story will still be there even when his commitment to the current agent is finished. As I say, I hope I'm proved wrong and this agent does something useful for him but I'm not holding my breath.

I can't for the life of me imagine why Channel 5 is so obsessed with CELEB BB. The number of genuine celebs who are prepared to put themselves forward for potential ridicule in this way is surely very limited and there has to be at least a few people we have actually heard of in the so-called celeb version. There is obviously a far greater number of people looking for the potential media exposure or even just wanting to take part for the fun/challenge of it in the non-celeb version and it's this version that can really take off with the right selection of housemates and it's certainly the one I want to see.

BIB 1: I agree with you - I hope he does write his book because I want to read it. Pete Bennett wrote a book (I still have it) and it is interesting to gain an insight into their lives and how they overcome challenges that most of us do not have.

BIB 2: Although it is sometimes good to se Celebs interacting with each other (or not as the case may be), I feel they are mostly too much on their best behaviour (until alcohol is involved ) and are too obsessed with their image. By and large, they are usually quite boring.

I agree with that; even an entertaining CBB series is far less engrossing than BB. People like Denise Welch may get pissed and make and ass of themselves, but on the whole CBB contestants are experienced media professionals who know very well that they must not damage the brand. BB respects this: they are put under far less pressure than BB housemates, given more privacy, punished more gently for infractions, given soft and fluffy tasks where they can look amusing. You will never see celebs going through a trial by fire like the turf wars. And of course it doesn't really matter to them who wins: obviously it is nice to feel that you have the love of the public, but they have their money in place whether they come first or last.

Yes, I really can't understand why Celeb BB gets the interest it does, it's definitely the weaker version for me. I understand why they make it easier for the celebs - after all they have to persuade people to go in - but it's the REAL Big Brother that I love to see. Maybe that's also part of the reason why there is so little interest in the winner now from the general public and from programme makers - because we don't get to see all the live feed which shows interesting things about housemates' lives/personalities and because many of the tasks and deprivations of the past really tested their characters so we really felt we knew them well.

A couple of examples - (1) we know Aaron was really involved in football but a casual viewer would never have realised that from the footage we saw and there may have been more interest from the celeb football scene if this had been known (2) Luke and Adam share that crazy sense of humour that we've seen since they came out of the house but a casual viewer wouldn't know that so there would be less interest in seeing them on quiz shows etc.

I'm glad we're still talking about the book! I feel I ought to be nipping at his heels about it because I believe so strongly that he'll get massive benefits from it. Now he's got a bit of a new perspective on his life it'd be a great way of processing what's gone on in his past, making sense of it and drawing a line under it. As much as he goes on about people accepting him, I can't help wondering just how much "Luke" accepts "Laura" if you see what I mean.

The problem he's going to run into is the process is going to dredge up a lot of painful memories. The temptation would be for him to think that, because life's so much better now, the effort isn't worth it. So I think he'll need a lot of friendly badgering, encouragement, questioning on issues we want to know more about and then just being a bunch of mates when he needs his spirits keeping up.

I sound like I'm setting myself up as his personal therapist! As lovely as everyone on FB is, I really can't relate to Luke in the same way they do. I don't hero worship the guy, I don't even see him as a celebrity. For me it was always about warming to pretty much the only person in BB13 who wasn't scared to say he was a work in progress. Adam as well but he's further down the path of self acceptance than Luke, that's why he was such a great mentor and friend. If slinging Luke a few phone votes bought him his new found confidence then it was money well spent.

In fact I don't think one book would be enough to do the subject justice. Once he's told his personal story he could go on to write stuff to help people going through reassignment themselves or considering it, their parents, friends, professionals, teenagers, maybe even young children.

I did leave a few comments on chapter 1 the other day after we had our last discussion. Unfortunately it didn't seem to bump the status up the page like it would with a normal status. So either nobody's read it or everyone's telling me to shut up! Anyway here's the permalink if anyone wants to add any more thoughts. I'll post it in the group as well to see if we get the others' reactions. I'd love to get a good discussion going about our feelings on the book if any of you want to join me over there.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1762...8916733574223/

Great post Val - I have made another comment.

Thanks Val for bringing the subject up again. I think one of the problems might be that agent again. I wonder how much experience he has of representing someone like Luke with genuine intelligence, something to offer and a story to tell. Really, it they're touting it to a publisher and a ghost writer there's not much we can do to push him to write more - it depends on what the publisher is looking for. I seriously hope it's done in a sensitive way or, if not, that Luke backs out and tries a different path.

I really understand your frustration. I think I was one of the first people to comment on the draft because I have Open Office rather than Word so could get straight into it although that's not the version with the most comments.

Another thing we have to be careful of I think is that Luke's now touting for LA All the Way members on twitter which is good on the whole but it might mean some of the people who join up are not genuine fans. There are some who just look for more ammunition against him - sad but true. There was one main forum thread that was started a week or ten days ago on DS that I'm 90% sure gained its information from either following Luke on twitter or being in the LA facebook group or maybe both. That's why I occasionally post in this AT thread - because not many DS members or casual browsers seem to look in here and it's more anonymous plus members have their card marked if they post uncomplimentary things.

There was also a very odd post in the LA group saying something like "so this is where the weird obsessives hang out". I didn't say anything, but I thought it was quite nasty to join a closed group just to say something negative.