This one http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...1735921&page=7

Thanks hula - I've had a quick look and, needless to say, I agree with WD, jeanoj, Noisy Oyster and you.

I'm not actually getting on very well on the FB group just now. It is having the odd effect of making me feel duller and less attractive. It is what I think of as my hen night (or any party with the in-laws) self, in which I stand in the corner like a plank of wood watching the revels before me. If I tell you that my ACTUAL hen night consisted of me and three friends, that they each brought a poem to share, and that we drank a bottle of wine between us, you can see my problem. I'm hiding now in case things get even more hen-nighty on there.

I know what you mean. Am I being awfully dull in saying that he's a married man and speaking for myself I have rules and standards even when I'm having fun? I also tend to be a bit naughtier on line than I ever would be in person. If I actually met him I'd be a tongue-tied, bumbling, blushing mess. In fact if I actually saw him in person I'd almost certainly be too shy to do anything except scurry away then kick myself later.

Whisper it and PLEASE don't tell anybody but the scars actually make me feel sorry for him. I'm not saying he's not attractive - of course he is - and lovely but my motherly instincts kick in and I'm left wondering how good the surgeon was to leave his chest looking like that, bursting stitches or no bursting stitches.

Having said that, if I was 20 years younger and he was single, I would ...

I have a lot of respect for Becki, she's obviously a very understanding lady . I'm sure that Luke said he intends to have chest revision to reduce the scaring. It's great that he feels confident about his body now. He has obviously come a long way since the early days of big brother when he was reluctant to take his top off.

Lol. Well. I am not even naughty online though.

I was once inveigled into one of these mock BB series in the main forum - I don't know if you have ever looked at them, but I found it EXCRUCIATING. It was all "passes round biscuits and pats cushion to Felix to sit down." "Getting a bit drunk and squeezing Felix's knee." I just stopped posting on it, which had the bizarre effect that I never got evicted. At one point two forum members started having explicit online sex, which was so startling that there was a separate thread about it in the General Discussion forum, which would normally die rather than discuss BB. Every so often I used to put a feeble little post on like "takes a biscuit", because after all I HAD been specially asked to join. Oh dear. Never, ever again.

I think some little part of my brain doesn't work, and it means I can't do anything like role play, however harmless. So when I see people getting more and more flirty in the FB group I just think - well, I can't do that. Can't we go back to discussing Alice Cooper, which I CAN do? Maybe I can't flirt. That is it. Hmmm. No flirty bit in my brain.

I so agree WD - I thought it was just me not joining in the spirit of the thing. I also found the person acting as BB was so bossy - I think he had illusions of grandeur. What actually is the point?

This is a part of the forum I never knew existed and don't worry you're not the only one the thought of performing role play or being flirtatious makes my toes curl.

Oh, please don't misunderstand me. I don't think the scars are horrible or anything, it just seems so unfair that he has had to go through so much and they can't even get that right for him. There is no reason why he should hide his body and I agree that it's terrific that he feels confident enough to show it. That's what the whispering was about. I wouldn't want anyone to think that I thought he should cover up the scars, of course not and I sure as heck wouldn't want him to be upset. I just feel that after everything he's put up with he should have the best. It's a shame BB didn't think OUR winner was worth the whole prize amount because that would have made a difference to his chances of getting a good plastic surgeon to sort out what they've done. Maybe I'm wrong but I've never seen any female who's had a boob job even a breast reduction been left with scars like that.

PS: I think Becki's terrific.

I can do role play but the flirty part of my brain's completely missing too. That's probably why I'm still single 15 years after my divorce. Totally, utterly and completely UNflirty that's me. I'd probably rather have a discussion on the economy than flirt (ugh) and I'm totally UNABLE to accept flirting or compliments from other people either (not that it happens very often) - I just run in the opposite direction

Yes, it doesn't look well done. But they are kind of duelling scars, Luke vs fate, and I'm glad he doesn't let them limit him. I thought it was brilliant in BB that he was happy to spend so much time in the pool, and never made a fuss about tasks that involved a lot of undressing (other than that taciturn comment that getting naked "might be a bit awkward". I have scars myself - a little matter of being trapped in a fire - (they are not too terrible) - and I think - well there they are. I survived being on fire. Pride.

So she is, even if she does confuse Swindon with Sweden. I thought there was something rather heroic about the way she ran Luke's twitter all through BB, while holding down her job and scurrying to Borehamwood and back, especially when it was obvious she so much wanted to be on BB herself. She seems a sweetie. And of course now that she is going to be a banker we can blame her for absolutely everything.

Of course I knew you were being nice and I agree with you, it's a shame that the surgery left bad scarring. It seems like such an injustice that Luke didn't get the 100K that he deserved . Fox who was on my transsexual sexual summer had his chest surgery in Florida and I remember Zeebra claiming that they were one of the best surgeons in the world for that type of operation. The extra prize money would have made a massive difference to him, as I'm sure having the surgery there would have eaten away at the 50K .

You have reminded me of just how angry I was at the whole stupid, insulting stunt.

On the other hand, Adam wasn't that far off winning; in which case Luke would have been happy for him and would have been pleased with his £5000. Or Deana might have won and neither of them would have got a penny. By tv show standards the prize money is a bit poxy anyway, but at least he got enough to buy a car and a holiday and still have most of it left.

I think it's my age too (I am old enough to be his mum) and that fact that I've got sons of my own that makes me so darn protective and motherly towards him as well as seeing him as an attractive young man. Obviously a good surgeon and indeed one experienced in this type of operation (of which I doubt there are many, if any, in the UK) would give better results. It's annoying that C5 failed to award him his due in prize money, haven't given him even the slot on the Wright Stuff that Aaron got last year, denied him a Winner's Story, seem to have given him an agent with precious few contacts and have shown no interest in following his story, whatever line he takes. Bl**dy annoying for Luke and a major slap in the face for viewers who voted him their winner and are interested in his future.

yes, but I do believe that the glory days of BB could do as much harm as good. Lovely for Craig Phillips and Brian Dowling to become tv stars, seemingly forever, but we had people like nadia as well. She won when BB was HUGE, was on the front cover of all the celeb magazines, was in all the tabloids....then seemed utterly unprepared for real life. She seemed to spend years waiting for that glorious day of victory to be continued in some way, and it never was. It is actually quite heartening seeing Luke saying proper adult things like "I've put the prize money in an ISA" and "I'm going back to chef-ing in the new year. I miss it." I would far rather Ch 5 ignored him and he went back to his normal life, but with a bit of added sparkle, than that he got loads of attention and turned into a Nadia.

And Oyster I do know what you mean by feeling motherly. Almost all the housemates except people like Lesley Brain seem young and often sweet to me.

It really tugged at my heartstrings when Luke had the 'beauty treatments' done - all that smearing him in gunk and doing the facial seemed all the more poignant bearing in mind his scars (which I understand are still swelled which is why he can't yet have the remedial surgery) and the fact that he wanted to be seen as masculine. Facing all that with a smile and a couple of jokey quips showed real courage - and acceptance of himself. I already wanted him to win but that was just the icing on the cake for me wanting him to win, especially bearing in mind that Adam only had a crab manicure/pedicure and Luke S chickened out altogether.

Ahh, so that's Becki's new job. I'd heard she'd got one. Good for her.

You're right about the double-edged sword thing. Sometimes fame isn't good although it is a shame that it doesn't look as if Luke is going to get to benefit from winning BB very much at all.

I didn't know he'd said he was going back to chef-ing. Do you know if he's getting his old job back or going to be looking elsewhere?

Actually that was surprisingly brutal. WHY did they keep him in a pair of little pants - which we know (ahem) were quite different from what he usually wears - for so long on camera? Even down to making him walk to the diary room in them? It was kind of voyeuristic and not nice. I thought it was really uncomfortable to watch, though he didn't say much himself, just that he felt awkward. I should think anyone in his situation would have felt mortified.


He hasn't said. I hope things go well for him either way.

There's a lot of things about the way he was treated that make me mad to be honest. Others on DS have ridiculed me for this but he WAS totally set up by them at the beginning. There is NO WAY he would have got the unconcerned reactions from the housemates when he told them he was transgender unless they had been prepared for the idea already yet they sat back and watched him trying to break the news never knowing what sort of a reaction he would get just to get a bit of footage for the first couple of episodes. I'll be honest, I'm a very tolerant person but before I got to see/know Luke in the house my jaw would have hit the floor if he'd told me he was born female not least because you'd never guess looking at him yet they were all 'oh, yeah, whatever'. I also know if one of my sons went into the places where they work on Monday and told them they had been born female they would be lucky to have a job to go back to on Tuesday. It's not right but it's the way things are, at least in my part of the UK, at the moment.

Secondly, been ridiculed for this too, but they also set up the Luke S situation. In my opinion somebody thought it would be a good laugh to watch Luke fall apart under the relentless onslaught of Mr Smug proving how much better he was at everything including body-building/chef-ing/appealing to girls/getting on with the blokes than our Luke (at least in his own mind). Luke (I refuse to call him Luke A because of the BB set up) was actually a lot stronger than he appeared and dealt with it really well under the circumstances but I am sure they were expecting him to either explode with jealousy or fall into a sobbing heap. Same name, extreme body-builder, extremely arrogant, thought he was a brilliant chef, wanting to be top dog and first into everything - there is no way this is a co-incidence when you consider Luke's personality and character - still developing his male identity, self-conscious about his body, not overly confident, unsure about his attractiveness to women and just bloomin' nice. His strength of character, basic decency and the fact that he was popular with the public bolstered Luke up and enabled him to emerge from the house a lot happier in his own skin but they weren't to know that. I'm sure they'd have been equally happy if he'd totally crumbled under the pressure as long as they got good footage for the highlights programme.

And that's quite apart from the fact that they COULD have shown a lot more of footage of him in the kitchen, sharing fun times with Adam and intended following his journey outside the house too - not necessarily as the winner but in terms of how people reacted to him, what the transgender community thought of the way he came across, given him some sort of cookery show, followed him in getting the breast surgery re-done and if he decided to go ahead with more operations (though I for one wouldn't blame him if he didn't - it looks ruddy painful and I'm not sure how successful it would be, especially as the NHS in this country couldn't even get the chest surgery to look reasonably good).

All in all I think he got a terribly raw deal from Channel 5.

That's all interesting, Oyster.

I'm not sure about the first paragraph, though Caroline's reaction of a too-weary-to-bother "Ok" then closing her eyes was frankly bizarre. Early on in BB they are all desperate to prove what lovely people they are, and the minimal reactions might be explained as young people so keen to prove their 'cool' credentials that they barely managed to sound interested. Adam's reaction (baffled incomprehension) seemed perfectly genuine. But of course, Sara DID know, and it is possible that she had said something to one or more other people that we didn't see.

But now that you have pointed it out, BB13 was disturbingly packed with people who might have made Luke feel (as he described it, re. Luke S) intimidated. Not just the strutting, supremely confident Luke S but shirtless peacock Arron, body builder Conor, porn actor Benedict and (and this really had never struck me before) ex-con, man-mountain Adam. In advance you would surely have predicted that Adam would have bonded with the obvious alpha-males, leaving the smaller, quieter, shyer ex-female to hang onto Scott if he could. It was just luck for Luke that Adam obviously felt no appeal at all in showing off his size and strength with the other big boys.

Obviously I'm not saying that it is BB's job to give every housemate a compatible friend, but this house was surely skewed towards the gym bunnies and body builders in a way that earlier series haven't been.

I agree that the editing was quite poor for Luke - we always think our favourites were badly edited, and he DID win, so that might sound unreasonable - but they ALWAYS seemed to focus on his down times. I couldn't count how many times I have read in the main forum derisive things about him always moaning and bitching. Almost every day there seemed to be some tweet in the BB twitter account about the outsiders having an interesting conversation, but these were never shown at all, and almost none of the good times with Adam were even hinted at. The moth attack seemed to come out of the blue - look! there's Luke and Adam having a laugh! - so it was quite a surprise to hear how much of the time they did spend laughing and joking.

It's a shame about the lack of follow up programmes. To be honest, the timing was a bit unlucky. Luke says he dropped out of My Transsesxual Summer because he was not out to a lot of people and didn't want his wedding filmed, but tv producers probably think that 'story' has been done now. But of COURSE he should have at least done some kind of cooking drop-in slot; the people they have are not exactly massive stars of the last 20 years; his agent must hardly bother to get out of bed.

Oh, has our 'friend' disappeared?

Thinking about it, to be fair, maybe there was no more to it than the usual pep talk/ensuring that housemates have tolerant attitudes to those who are different to themselves and, as you say, wanting to look cool and get on well with everyone although the lack of reaction did seem suspicious to me and did end up being something else to use against Luke - he was the one making a fuss about telling the other housemates when really they weren't bothered. Adam with his total honesty and bewilderment at what Luke actually meant was the only one who didn't seem to be trying over hard to be overly cool and indifferent. to the news. Still, they COULD have made it clear to Luke that all the housemates were vetted over diversity issues including the transgender one (which is further away from total acceptance/understanding by the general public than many others) and assured him that it wouldn't be a problem but that wouldn't have made good TV - 'Hi I'm a transgender guy, any questions please ask' wouldn't have given them such good footage as Luke squirming over how to tell them, discussing it quietly with Sara then having to 'break the news' one by one.

Hi guys - thanks for the great posts - very interesting reading.

There are a few specialist F2M chest surgeons in the UK - the most prominent one being a chap called Andrew Yelland. He was an NHS consultant but fairly recently went totally private. I believe his work is the best in the UK.

The surgeon in Fort Lauderdale is a guy called Charles Garramone and his patients come from all over the world to be operated on by him. He is fantastic, and a really lovely fellow too. My son and I will be going there next summer for him to have his top surgery done by Dr Garramone.

WD if you can bear to talk about it I would be interested to hear about what happened when you were in a fire (my greatest fear).

What has happened NO?

I guessed there wouldn't be many people with experience in this type of operation. I'm please that Luke is being sensible with the money but it is annoying that if he'd had everything he should have had from Channel 5 he would have had the best surgeons to choose from.

Still, he is having the time of his life at the moment, it must be great having so much support and it couldn't happen to a nicer guy - he really is lovely (if a bit naughty at times).

Good luck to your son zeeebra