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Joe McElderry - Here's What I Believe


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Old 20-09-2012, 11:59
Merity
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I have to say that I think that Joe's fans have every right to be flipping mad with Simon Cowell.
Every time I see that advert for the x factor on tv I am bouncing on my settee with annoyance!
Is it an advert for the x factor - or promotion for all the artists that SC has on his record labels?
Who is paying for it? If it is ITV then shame on them.
Personally I think that any advert for the x factor that features winners should feature every winner....
Makes my blood boil!
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Old 20-09-2012, 12:12
Nyota
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I just find it sad that while Joe appears to conduct himself with good grace as far as the XF is concerned, his fans seem incapable of following his fine example. Oh well.
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Old 21-09-2012, 12:30
CARA2000
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I love the Righteous Brothers version of Unchained Melody. I can't stand any other though. Oh, apart from Cyndi Lauper - her At Last album is a revelation for those who, like me, can be put off by cover versions sometimes.

I must say the constant swipes at Simon Cowell are boring at this point. I appreciate why Joe's fans feel badly about him, but Joe's moved on so maybe other people should too?
Sorry, can't agree about SCowell. Joe has moved on but SCowell has not. He has placed himself as some sort of GURU in the Industry and exploits everything that comes from involving the public in his shows. He is still up to some really tacky manipulation imo. If someone else came along who was treated as shoddily as Joe was then SCowell must again be held responsible for continued tacky treatment of people. I think in this instance there is an argument for people to uphold a culture of social responsibility don't you?
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Old 21-09-2012, 12:36
CARA2000
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I just find it sad that while Joe appears to conduct himself with good grace as far as the XF is concerned, his fans seem incapable of following his fine example. Oh well.
Why do you suppose that it is only Joe fans that are maintaining some kind of grudge against SCowell? There are other artists who have been treat appallingly by SCowell and their fans have a right to be vociferous about it. Poor behaviour from someone as prominent and influential should never be acceptable.

I am dismayed when I read many posts from people who are evidently quite young and see SCowell as something to respect. His general ethos is not good. He is a business man and that is all.
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Old 21-09-2012, 13:01
Nyota
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Why do you suppose that it is only Joe fans that are maintaining some kind of grudge against SCowell?.
I don't think I did. But because this is a Joe thread, and it's Joe's fans who are actively holding this grudge in this thread...that's why I said what I said.

Not sure what's hard to understand about that.
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Old 21-09-2012, 13:50
twingle
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Why do you suppose that it is only Joe fans that are maintaining some kind of grudge against SCowell? There are other artists who have been treat appallingly by SCowell and their fans have a right to be vociferous about it. Poor behaviour from someone as prominent and influential should never be acceptable.

I am dismayed when I read many posts from people who are evidently quite young and see SCowell as something to respect. His general ethos is not good. He is a business man and that is all.
You are correct he is a business man and a very good one. Let's see how Decca handles Joe should his album bomb and he is not making them money. Do you think they would act like a charity and keep him on out of the goodness of their hearts. I really don't think so.

I am not a mega fan of Cowell but I do get cross at the hypocrisy on DS. Everything bad to do with X factor is Cowell's fault and anything good well of course everyone else but Cowell gets the glory!
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Old 21-09-2012, 15:20
CARA2000
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I don't think I did. But because this is a Joe thread, and it's Joe's fans who are actively holding this grudge in this thread...that's why I said what I said.

Not sure what's hard to understand about that.
It is OK for Joe to be moved on and speaking positively about 'his' experience in XF. However, XF is continuing without Joe. Why do you suppose that anyone supporting Joe is deemed "sad" because they still have an opinion about the show and the face of it?

I personally like several contestants that went through the show. However, I am not dictated to by a former XF contestant on what my opinion is or should follow their stance in any way. It would be very controlling of an individual or individuals to expect it.

Sorry find this very bizarre. Too often I come over people policing how people should act and think just because they support someone. It is very tedious. I try hard to stop myself from telling FMs or fans how they should act.
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Old 21-09-2012, 15:24
CARA2000
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You are correct he is a business man and a very good one. Let's see how Decca handles Joe should his album bomb and he is not making them money. Do you think they would act like a charity and keep him on out of the goodness of their hearts. I really don't think so.

I am not a mega fan of Cowell but I do get cross at the hypocrisy on DS. Everything bad to do with X factor is Cowell's fault and anything good well of course everyone else but Cowell gets the glory!
The discussion was not about his business strategy. My goodness me hasn't that one been done to death.

My original response was about being dictated to on why people should or should not have an opinion about an individual who puts himself out there in the public eye.

I find it very inciteful to be homing in on a set of fans again. Sad, but all to often it appears to happen in threads about Joe.
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Old 21-09-2012, 15:53
Nyota
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Cara, the way your reading comprehension works really confuses me. I'll leave it there, as I've never liked going around in circles or talking to brick walls.
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Old 21-09-2012, 16:01
CARA2000
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Cara, the way your reading comprehension works really confuses me. I'll leave it there, as I've never liked going around in circles or talking to brick walls.

Can we leave it where it is OK to discuss a well-known individual in the Music Industry that may have played a part in some way on whether this album discussed on this thread HWIB may have happened or not? If that is OK with you?

However, can we leave sets of fans alone who may feel a little undermined by your original comment? Is that OK?

Or is this another brick wall? I empathise with you going around in circles.
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Old 21-09-2012, 16:30
twingle
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Cara, the way your reading comprehension works really confuses me. I'll leave it there, as I've never liked going around in circles or talking to brick walls.
Yep I totally agree. I get cross with myself for responding when I know it is just a waste of time
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Old 21-09-2012, 17:57
Nyota
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Yep I totally agree. I get cross with myself for responding when I know it is just a waste of time
At least other people see what I see!
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Old 21-09-2012, 20:04
CARA2000
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At least other people see what I see!
Bless you! I hope that now others can see your point of view that it makes you feel all the more sure of your opinion.

I thought we had moved on because of a brick wall or something or was it something else?

I am getting mixed up.

Just listening to a recording of Joe in London singing live this week. OMG! It is amazing.
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Old 21-09-2012, 21:29
sparkle22
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I don't like the way matt cardle was treated ether a talented artists who should have had better support.
Run for your life was awful hopefully he'll do better in future.
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Old 21-09-2012, 21:48
YorkshireLass7
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I've just got home, having been lucky enough to go both of Joe's album launch shows, the first in Newcastle on Tuesday night and then in London last night

Hearing Joe sing almost all of the songs on Here's What I Believe live, and with very different acoustics and arrangements - his band were with him at both gigs but he also had a string section at the London venue - it's very much re-affirmed my views on the album.

Whilst in many ways I'm delighted for Joe that HWIB was picked up so quickly by the label, I agree with a number of posters that it is probably the weakest of the self-penned tracks on the album. I much prefer the three extra tracks and am still a bit dumb founded as to why they were only made available as downloads on the deluxe album.

With regard to the pop vs classical crossover debate, I think that Joe has such a diverse fan base that there were difficult choices to make.

My guess is that HWIB is intended to be a 'transitional' album. The TV advert seems to be designed to draw in fans - and buyers - of Classic and it seems to make sense to do that given Classic's sales compared to Wide Awake's. But I'm also pleased Joe has some original material on the album (though I'm not sure I would call any of it pop), and I think the old and new songs mix well. I can see Decca's reasoning in doing this, the jury is still out for me on whether it was successful, either in it's own right or in moving forward.

I do know that all of the songs went to a different level for me when I heard Joe sing them live. He sang Silence and Rescue Us (two of the three extra songs) acoustically and they were just stunning, whilst Here's What I Believe and What Have I Done were given a bit more bite (sorry I'm not very good on the correct terminology but if you've heard Joe sing The Climb live recently, it was a similar treatment).

And with the strings behind him, Your Voice, How We Love, E Penso a Te and Love of my Life really showed off Joe's voice and wouldn't have sounded out of place on Classic (or Classic 2 )

I would be genuinely interested to know if people posting here change their views on any of the songs after listening to some of the live recordings.
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Old 21-09-2012, 23:45
Nyota
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Having heard the live version of HWIB just now, I do agree that it's far superior to the studio version. Can't understand why they didn't go with the live arrangement, which is actually quite nice to listen to and doesn't sound as horrifically dated or bland like the album/single release.
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Old 22-09-2012, 01:00
YorkshireLass7
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Having heard the live version of HWIB just now, I do agree that it's far superior to the studio version. Can't understand why they didn't go with the live arrangement, which is actually quite nice to listen to and doesn't sound as horrifically dated or bland like the album/single release.
I'm pleased you had a listen and heard the difference in the live version

I know as a fan people would expect me to say this but Joe is really excellent live because he experiments with his songs much more than he does in the studio versions, especially now that he has his guitarist or his band with him
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Old 22-09-2012, 01:25
Nyota
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I'm pleased you had a listen and heard the difference in the live version

I know as a fan people would expect me to say this but Joe is really excellent live because he experiments with his songs much more than he does in the studio versions, especially now that he has his guitarist or his band with him
Having seen a few of his live performances now I do see why people go on about how much better he is live. I praised his cover of Love the Way You Lie a while back. I'd love to see him sing more songs like that, with an edge.

Suddenly I'm thinking he could do a really good job of Trouble by Leona Lewis.
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Old 22-09-2012, 09:52
Merity
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Listening to Joe sing When I need you - live on the Alan T show I have to say it was way superior to the album version - even though I like the album version too.
Joe is amazing to hear singing live.
I dont know why they didnt go with Your Voice or How We Love as the lead off song.
The trouble with this album is that I think it falls between two stools.
Not totally for the pop fans and not totally for the classical fans and therefore a sort of no mans land.
No-one can fault Joe's vocals on the album - they are as superb as always but I think the tracklist lets him down.
The covers are not the greatest songs he could have covered and the originals are good but not great.
Personally I think great song writing is an art in itself and not every singer has the ability to write "great" songs.
I'd rather see singers sing and song writers write - except for the few and far between, who can both sing greatly and write songs greatly!
I guess the final judgement will be in how this album sells.
If it doesnt perform as well as Classic or Classic Christmas then I would say the message is loud and clear which genre Joe should follow.
I should add that I dont have the deluxe version so I am judging purely on the standard album.
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Old 23-09-2012, 09:00
CARA2000
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Joe is one of only a very few people that I consider to be actually better live.

The 4th album I think attempts to draw in all the target audiences gained on XF show, Wide Awake and Classic.

If there was two albums produced, one for self\penned work or originals and another classic album it may have solved the problem.

Personally, I am just being greedy.

Congratulations to Joe on such a brilliant launch in Newcastle and London. Just stunning.
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Old 23-09-2012, 18:06
sparkle22
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I agree joe could have done better covers what about maybe unchained melody or you've lost that lovin feelin.
Joe would have sounded amazing doing those songs.
When I need you & I don't want to talk about it very average songs I did like his version of something's gotten hold of my heart I prefer the original songs.
I don't know why HWIB was released as the lead single.
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Old 05-10-2012, 22:03
Ray-El
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I like most of Joe's music and, frankly, it's not important to me at all whether or not people think he has something to offer "the world of music." I don't really concern myself with the entire world of music. I concern myself with what I like to listen to and what I decide to purchase. Music is something personal to each person and to repeat ad nauseam that he has "nothing to offer" assumes that everyone shares your standard for what good music is. That clearly is not the case. People's opinions about music are just as subjective as their opinions on films.

There are only 4 artists who have ever released an album in which I have liked every song on the album. Joe happens to be one of those artists. In my book, that makes him a good artist who has something to offer ME, regardless of the fact that he got his start on a TV program that I don't watch.

He's still a young man at the beginning of his career. There are not many artists who have changed the face of music in just 3 years. I don't see why he's expected to transform the industry and perform miracles with every album. He's a singer, not Jesus Christ.

Obviously, everyone is free to criticize him all they want. He is a public figure. But don't assume that your comments about his career being over before it began are in any way an indicator of how much others are entitled to enjoy his work.

I didn't buy his Christmas album because I don't like Christmas music. But the issue was MY music preference, NOT his ability or the quality of his performances… which are usually quite good. If he wants to try new styles, I say go for it. As long as it isn't Christmas music or rap, I'll be glad to give it a try. I'm not going to hold one album I didn't want to buy against him. In fact, I live in the U.S. and haven't heard a single track on his new album yet, but I already ordered it and look forward to hearing it. If there are only one or two songs on it that I really like, that's okay. I'm not fickle, like most music fans. Joe doesn't need to prove himself to me. I already know he's good and if I happen to dislike this album, I'll just add the songs I do like to my mp3 player and wait to see what he does with the next album.

But either way, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to make enemies with total strangers on a website based on a disagreement over a young man and his music. Enjoy it or don't. Either way, you are entitled.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:55
Ray-El
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I just received this album and listened to the entire thing.

After all the criticism, I was somewhat worried about whether or not the album would be any good, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. I was surprised to see that the songs I enjoyed the most were the ones that Joe helped to write. Of the 13 songs, here are the ones I'll be adding to my mp3 player:

Song 1. Here's What I Believe - A great, uplifting, post-break-up song that focuses on moving on. I can see Joe singing this one live with a choir backing him up. That would be so cool.

Song 3. To Have A Broken Heart - This is the sad version of Here's What I Believe - another break-up song, but this one focuses on the pain of the break-up.

Song 5. Something's Got A Hold Of My Heart - A dark and moody song, in spite of it's own lyrics.

Song 6. Skyscraper - Probably not the best lyrics, but I love the melody and the music arrangement.

Song 7. How We Love - A very pretty, mellow ballad.

Song 8. Your Voice - A very mature and emotional ballad that I normally wouldn't expect from someone Joe's age. Mostly low key with some vocal high points throughout.

Song 9. I Look To You - I thought it was okay, but it didn't really stand out to me until the end. Then it reminded me of the kind of song that made Joe famous in the first place.

Song 10. What Have I Done - I really love this song! Probably my favorite on the album. An absolutely beautiful broken-heart song. It was co-written by Joe and he does a wonderful job on it. It's a great song for his voice.

Song 11. My Love Will Find You - Wow. I think Joe was channeling his inner Celine Dion on this one. I love the lyrics. It reminds me of the love song you would hear someone sing in a theater production.

Song 13. E Penso A Te - The dramatic arrangement sometimes sounds like a song from a 1970s Italian romantic movie, but Joe really takes flight with the song at the 2-minute point. This is the closest song on the album to the Classic style.

This album is a great contemporary compliment to Wide Awake and Classic. Wide Awake had plenty of great upbeat songs, but the production relied on a lot of gimmicks and didn't really showcase Joe's voice as much as I would have liked. Classic did much better at showcasing his talent but was full of songs I had already heard before. Here's What I Believe is a nice mix of the two. It gives Joe a chance to work his magic on some ballads, but they're not songs I'm familiar with, aside from one or two.

This confirms for me that I should give absolutely no credibility to music reviews, comments on message boards, and sales figures when it comes to buying an album. I can understand how Joe's music might not be for everybody, but how someone could hear this album and accuse him of not being a noteworthy artist is beyond my comprehension. Even the worst song on this album is a lot easier to listen to than the majority of what I'm hearing on the radio today.
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:21
gpk
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This confirms for me that I should give absolutely no credibility to music reviews, comments on message boards, and sales figures when it comes to buying an album. I can understand how Joe's music might not be for everybody, but how someone could hear this album and accuse him of not being a noteworthy artist is beyond my comprehension. Even the worst song on this album is a lot easier to listen to than the majority of what I'm hearing on the radio today.
yes, but it dropped out of the top 40 album chart like a stone and i doubt his label with be impressed with these results. he must have had some investment and i don't see how they can recoup their costs with the album languishing at #75 in its fourth week.
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:37
Gill P
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Ray-El. welcome to Digital Spy!

Your two posts are EXACTLY how I feel about Joe and his music. He is so young but still manages to tug at my heartstrings with his glorious voice. The track you picked out as one of your favourite (Your Voice) is reminiscent of Anthem from the musical Chess. On Joe's website there are some video clips where he explains the thoughts behind the songs. His explanation of Your Voice is not what I thought it would be. However, at the moment, I cannot find the link - sorry.

By the way, on the de luxe version (obtainable on lin) there are three more songs which Joe has co-written. They are Mayday, Silence is the Loudest Cry and his new "focus" track, Rescue Us. All of these are great.
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