The only thing that could save XF this year is the fact the clocks have gone back (more people will be in on a Sunday night), and snow is likely over the coming weeks.

I wonder if Strictly was being labelled a flop in 2009 & 2010 when it was constantly getting trounced by XF.

:yawn: With just under a fifth of the population watching X Factor although the figures are down on last year it certainly isn't a flop.

Yes it was. It was always in "crisis" according the papers. I wonder why we are not seeing the same headlines about the X Factor now it's in the same position?

Because 8.4 million is not a crisis?

If this was 2007, then no. Strictly was labelled a 'crisis' because it was always around this mark (8-9m). XF should be much closer to last years ratings. I would expect the ratings to be higher (for all shows tonight) because of the time change.

Exactly. It's getting almost double most 'quality' ITV drama, (sadly), and generally better ratings than the ITV soaps.

Crisis? The advertisers, Cowell and ITV are laughing all the way to the bank.

Still declining I see with its smallest audience for a live show yet, XF fans clutching at straws as always.

:yawn: It's a 9 year old show. As I said to you earlier, yes it's not as popular as last year but most shows would kill to get the ratings it does in its 9th year. It's nowhere near a crisis. 3 Million would be a crisis. Get it in proportion.

Might I just refer you to my above post :

'Exactly. It's getting almost double most 'quality' ITV drama, (sadly), and generally better ratings than the ITV soaps.

Crisis? The advertisers, Cowell and ITV are laughing all the way to the bank.'

I am not a fan of the show but I sure as hell can tell even with the lower ratings its nowhere near a flop this year.

They're just lucky it hasn't dipped below 8m for a live show. The last time it dipped below 8m for a performance show was the second live show in 2007 which had 7.51m. It didn't dip to below 8m at all in 2008 (in the officials) for a performance/results show.

I think this is the first time for a number of years where, on average, it has failed to reach above a 40% share, however as mentioned time and time again, the clocks being changed and the fact it seems very likely to snow in the coming weeks, I would expect to see some sort of rise.

It's become slightly dull. Last night was just mediocre.

I found myself fast forwarding through half the acts and its impossible to watch live because of the guff, filler and ads.

The panel are atrocious. Louis Walsh repeats the same thing each week, Tulisa looks moody and out of place, Barlow looks exasperated and deluded and Nicole has clearly thought 'sod it, I'm going to play nuts'

Dermot is getting equally tedious. I'd axe him and bring in Caroline and Olly.

It's stale as hell

Taking into account what Score off the Ratings Thread said:

Tedious? He has been doing a 'dance' at the start of the show since last year. And I think Caroline & Olly are best suited to Xtra Factor in my opinion.

Although she wasn't great on The Voice, if X Factor was to get a new host it would have to be Holly Willoughby. She'd be much more suited to XF and was great when she did Xtra Factor for a bit. Caroline & Olly aren't professional enough to do the main show.

8.4m is about where it should have been, a decline similar to previous weeks in comparison to last year would've put it at around 8.6m. Not sure why a big thing is being made of it every week, it is remaining really consistent. It isn't losing any viewers, they were already lost before the series began.

9.2m and 10.7m peak (inc +1) is what I'm getting from the ratings thread. The time change didn't make any sort of impact at all. This time last year it hit a series high. What is going on!?

You ask the same question every week, and remain in shock every week... Face it it's not the juggernaught it once was, nobody here is surprised its under 10mill

The problem with the results show is that nothing really happens until the last half hour, so viewers just don't tune in until then. Its why the average is so much lower than the peak. For next year they could do with changing the running order, and perhaps the format to something like;

Group performance
Guest #1
Judges chat
Results
Sing off, and opening phone lines to let public decide who stays
Guest #2
Elimination result

That would make it much more engaging for viewers and it would remove a lot of fix allegations too

I did promise him a 10 million party thread if it managed it, so you can understand the disappointment each week

Maybe to try and make people watch the whole show they should call half the acts safe in the first half of the show and them the rest in the second half + the SO.

However in general the shows format needs to be looked at - maybe the judges can have a veto vote if they want to keep both acts in the bottom 2 - all judges need to be unamimous though (however the following week would be a double).

I dont know, basically the show needs a complete overhaul - it didn't even get one when 3/4 of the judges were replaced as the format and the stages all remained the same. It seems Syco dont like change

They thought just adding Barlow would get back the credibility they'd lost the previous year, where everything just jumped the shark.

But like you say they didn't change the format, so all it did was exaggerate the problem and shot both Barlow's and the show's credibility even more to shreds.

The first week of the live shows this year basically then put a bullet in the head of any chance of recovery. The show's now treading water until it's all change again next year.

They have changed it every year (see below). They're only small changes, but changes that mean the show has evolved and remained fresh year after year. This year has offered nothing new. Guest judges started the series (seen that before), and I think they expected Nicole to be this years hook- which at first she wasn't. Other than that, it is identical to last year.

2005- more contestants (9 to 12), bigger set
2006- Introduction of theme weeks and guests, new set
2007- Dannii & Dermot join, fourth category
2008- Cheryl joins, shift in focus to be more contemporary, introduction of the 'song for survival'
2009- New set, Sunday results show
2010- Guest judges, wildcard
2011- Next generation, more contestants (although arguably done in series 7)

The more contestants in 2011 just backfired as well, removing public involvement in the first live show, kicking out Amelia and 3 others in one go for controversy, and yet further damaged the credibility of the show.

That continuing with the Frankie debacle, and then even bringing Amelia back again mired in controversy.

It's the credibility of the show that is in tatters, as well as Barlow's. No changes have addressed that, in fact they just keep making it worse.

With no credibility people won't commit to such a long running show, or even talk about it seriously, it stops being cool. It's mirroring BB completely.

I don't think it needs credibility, it just needs judges and acts who are of the moment and gets people talking. This years lot are talented but there are no stars. If you compare it to series 5 and 7 which both had many acts who could survive afterwards, the contrast is bleak. They're just trying to recreate their past successes with the likes of Union J and even Rylan- we've seen it all before. This year does have Lucy, Jahmene and James who we've never really had anyone like before, but they seem to be flying under the radar in favour of the recycled acts.

Tulisa is also a bit of a laughing stock and noone takes her seriously. I think she is very damaging to the show too and I really can't see her coming back next year. She either needs replacing with Cheryl Cole, or whilst she wasn't the most entertaining guest judge, someone of the moment like Rita Ora could be needed.

Gary needs to go too, Simon needs to come back and ITV should agree to meet him in the middle and allow him just to come back as an impartial judge. All he'd need to do is fly over on a Saturday afternoon and go back on a Sunday night. As I posted in another thread, if Len Goodman can do it then there is no reason at all why Simon can't.

However all the rounds and format is still the same - the additon of wildcards is meaningless really and is still the same thing at the end of the day. Same with adding more acts to the final rounds - its the same thing, just elongating the live show process

I would say the biggest change they;ve had is the move in audtions to live audiences - which has been to the shows ditriment IMO and adding a 4 judge.

However the show is still the shame a no overhaul has taken place save for replacing judges with poorer people.

They need to look at every element of the show and actually change something