[elgransenor1]

I don't agree that Gazza is a "complete loser"

He's a brilliant footballer- one of the best of his generation. Certainly the best of his generation from these isles, by a long way.

Sadly his talents with a football don't exactly seem to have corresponded to the brain department. Perhaps that's part of his charm.

As I said before, the reason I don't feel sorry for Gazza is that he's a law unto himself- he could still find a way out of his prison. Plenty of other people suffer with depression and alcohol related problems and find a way out of that. It might be hard, but life is hard.

The people I do feel sorry for are the people who can do little about their fate- the cancer victims, those inflicted with H.I.V., victims of human rights abuses. Acid attack victims in Pakistan. Why feel sorry for people who can still change their lives, their destiny? It's not as if Gazza is dead.

People seem to claim on this thread that an alcoholic or addict is helpless- I don't agree. You still have your sober moments. It's difficult but there's still a chance to break free.

[yorkiegal]

I don't buy into the whole national treasure thing. I thought Gazza should have been dropped from the team when it came out that he was a wife beater.

However, as someone who suffers from mental illness, I have a lot of sympathy for his battle with alcoholism and bi polar disorder. This latest binge seems to have come about after he was under stress from losing a friend. For me, food is an addiction. Fortunately that doesn't hurt anyone but myself. But when its combined with a bout of depression I really go off the rails with bingeing so I can understand why he's come off the wagon again. You can have a whole support system out there and people who rely on you too, but unless you have the self esteem to want to look after yourself and try to get better, it's never going to work in the long term. Gazza doesn't need to just dry out. He needs long term therapy to help with those demons. And yes he might relapse every few years or so when his bi polar affects him. There is always hope though. I think he needs a purpose in life and has lost that since his football career ended.

[dorydaryl]

Originally Posted by yorkiegal

I don't buy into the whole national treasure thing. I thought Gazza should have been dropped from the team when it came out that he was a wife beater.

However, as someone who suffers from mental illness, I have a lot of sympathy for his battle with alcoholism and bi polar disorder. This latest binge seems to have come about after he was under stress from losing a friend. For me, food is an addiction. Fortunately that doesn't hurt anyone but myself. But when its combined with a bout of depression I really go off the rails with bingeing so I can understand why he's come off the wagon again. You can have a whole support system out there and people who rely on you too, but unless you have the self esteem to want to look after yourself and try to get better, it's never going to work in the long term. Gazza doesn't need to just dry out. He needs long term therapy to help with those demons. And yes he might relapse every few years or so when his bi polar affects him. There is always hope though. I think he needs a purpose in life and has lost that since his football career ended.

Nice post, yorkiegal. Having been around DS for a while, I'm familiar with your posts and you always put up a good fight for those with mental health problems. I, too, have to admit that Gazza lost a fair bit of sympathy with me re: the wife-beating but agree with everything you've said here.

[kate36]

Originally Posted by yorkiegal

I don't buy into the whole national treasure thing. I thought Gazza should have been dropped from the team when it came out that he was a wife beater.

However, as someone who suffers from mental illness, I have a lot of sympathy for his battle with alcoholism and bi polar disorder. This latest binge seems to have come about after he was under stress from losing a friend. For me, food is an addiction. Fortunately that doesn't hurt anyone but myself. But when its combined with a bout of depression I really go off the rails with bingeing so I can understand why he's come off the wagon again. You can have a whole support system out there and people who rely on you too, but unless you have the self esteem to want to look after yourself and try to get better, it's never going to work in the long term. Gazza doesn't need to just dry out. He needs long term therapy to help with those demons. And yes he might relapse every few years or so when his bi polar affects him. There is always hope though. I think he needs a purpose in life and has lost that since his football career ended.

well said yorkie gal

[DiamondDoll]

Originally Posted by yorkiegal

I don't buy into the whole national treasure thing. I thought Gazza should have been dropped from the team when it came out that he was a wife beater.

However, as someone who suffers from mental illness, I have a lot of sympathy for his battle with alcoholism and bi polar disorder. This latest binge seems to have come about after he was under stress from losing a friend. For me, food is an addiction. Fortunately that doesn't hurt anyone but myself. But when its combined with a bout of depression I really go off the rails with bingeing so I can understand why he's come off the wagon again. You can have a whole support system out there and people who rely on you too, but unless you have the self esteem to want to look after yourself and try to get better, it's never going to work in the long term. Gazza doesn't need to just dry out. He needs long term therapy to help with those demons. And yes he might relapse every few years or so when his bi polar affects him. There is always hope though. I think he needs a purpose in life and has lost that since his football career ended.

Thanks for injecting a note of genuine compassion.

[yorkiegal]

It's in the news today that on arrival in the airport in the US, Gazza was left alone for a few minutes by his minder and went straight to the bar for a pint. That's how addicted he is. Can't say I blame him because he knows it was his last chance to get a fix before entering rehab. Shame there were people who thought it ok to snap a picture of him doing this and send it to the papers. I hope he knows just how much support there is for him out there.

[elgransenor1]

Originally Posted by yorkiegal

It's in the news today that on arrival in the airport in the US, Gazza was left alone for a few minutes by his minder and went straight to the bar for a pint. That's how addicted he is. Can't say I blame him because he knows it was his last chance to get a fix before entering rehab. Shame there were people who thought it ok to snap a picture of him doing this and send it to the papers. I hope he knows just how much support there is for him out there.

but it doesn't exactly suggest that he wants to change does it?

thats the problem with rehab- its fine if you want to genuinely change, but with someone like gazza, it's more about making a gesture than anything else.

[occy]

One last pint before he goes to rehab. Once an alcoholic always an alcoholic. He needs a job to keep him off drink.

[Osusana]

Originally Posted by elgransenor1

but it doesn't exactly suggest that he wants to change does it?

thats the problem with rehab- its fine if you want to genuinely change, but with someone like gazza, it's more about making a gesture than anything else.

Spot on
You cannot make someone dry out and then undergo therapy. Only last year the PFA paid for him to go to Sporting Chance (the place set up by Tony Adams) - he checked himself out after a few days.
'Helping' someone often means enabling them - he knows that no matter how much he relapses, he will get bailed out again...................

[Keyser Soze]

I've worked with people with addiction problems. Unless the person reaches that moment where they themselves say "enough", they aren't on the road to recovery. Even when they do, it's tough enough.

[DuchessKitty]

Originally Posted by yorkiegal

I don't buy into the whole national treasure thing. I thought Gazza should have been dropped from the team when it came out that he was a wife beater.

However, as someone who suffers from mental illness, I have a lot of sympathy for his battle with alcoholism and bi polar disorder. This latest binge seems to have come about after he was under stress from losing a friend. For me, food is an addiction. Fortunately that doesn't hurt anyone but myself. But when its combined with a bout of depression I really go off the rails with bingeing so I can understand why he's come off the wagon again. You can have a whole support system out there and people who rely on you too, but unless you have the self esteem to want to look after yourself and try to get better, it's never going to work in the long term. Gazza doesn't need to just dry out. He needs long term therapy to help with those demons. And yes he might relapse every few years or so when his bi polar affects him. There is always hope though. I think he needs a purpose in life and has lost that since his football career ended.

Yorkiegal, you have hit the nail on the head completely.

I was talking to my mum about this the other day and we were both in agreement that he is a very unwell man. Sadly when he was younger, his antics were encouraged. "Oh look he's one of the lads!" Rumours of him turing up for training with booze in a hipflask were treated as a laugh, not a symptom of someone in crisis.

With this in mind, I think football clubs have a duty of care to players. They are young men who are thrust into an extraordinary situation riddled with temptations and pressures. A man like Gazza, who is clearly a troubled person (see his outbursts- both agressive and emotional), should have had a bit more support; though I completely agree that people have to want to get better.

[lexi22]

Originally Posted by elgransenor1

but it doesn't exactly suggest that he wants to change does it?

thats the problem with rehab- its fine if you want to genuinely change, but with someone like gazza, it's more about making a gesture than anything else.

Oh for heaven's sake, you'd think Gascoigne was the only alcoholic who behaves like this! Seriously. Having a last drink/taking one last hit is almost a ritual for people going into rehab. Courage, fear of what's next, clinging on to their 'comfort blanket'. He's an addict, he's weak, he's terrified of failing again, and probably also terrified of a future without the one thing that helps him cope. That's what rehab is for, to change that mindset and help him see that a life without booze is a possibility.

I hope this isn't going to be another one of those 2-week celebrity 'rehabs' though. What he needs is intensive structured rehab for a minimum of 3 months and then see where he's at. Anyway, best of luck to him.

[Osusana]

Originally Posted by lexi22

Oh for heaven's sake, you'd think Gascoigne was the only alcoholic who behaves like this! Seriously. Having a last drink/taking one last hit is almost a ritual for people going into rehab. Courage, fear of what's next, clinging on to their 'comfort blanket'. He's an addict, he's weak, he's terrified of failing again, and probably also terrified of a future without the one thing that helps him cope. That's what rehab is for, to change that mindset and help him see that a life without booze is a possibility.

I hope this isn't going to be another one of those 2-week celebrity 'rehabs' though. What he needs is intensive structured rehab for a minimum of 3 months and then see where he's at. Anyway, best of luck to him.

Completely agree with this - he has had this before of course, countless times...............
I don't care if he needs a thousand detoxes and rehabs IF the final one works, but clearly he is once again going into this at the behest of others. He will fail unless HE wants to stop.

[elgransenor1]

Originally Posted by lexi22

Oh for heaven's sake, you'd think Gascoigne was the only alcoholic who behaves like this! Seriously. Having a last drink/taking one last hit is almost a ritual for people going into rehab. Courage, fear of what's next, clinging on to their 'comfort blanket'. He's an addict, he's weak, he's terrified of failing again, and probably also terrified of a future without the one thing that helps him cope. That's what rehab is for, to change that mindset and help him see that a life without booze is a possibility.

I hope this isn't going to be another one of those 2-week celebrity 'rehabs' though. What he needs is intensive structured rehab for a minimum of 3 months and then see where he's at. Anyway, best of luck to him.

Is it? how do you know?

I'll be surprised if it is and if thats the case then most people must fail- because surely the point of entering rehab is that you've finally made a decision to change your life, and theres no going back now.

rather than "i'll just have one last one for the road" rather a half-hearted approach, don't you think?

people like gazza seem to be in and out of rehab more often than katie price gets through husbands.

[lexi22]

Originally Posted by Osusana

Completely agree with this - he has had this before of course, countless times...............
I don't care if he needs a thousand detoxes and rehabs IF the final one works, but clearly he is once again going into this at the behest of others. He will fail unless HE wants to stop.

As others have said, his major problem - and the biggest hurdle for him - seems to be that he doesn't have anything else in his life other than his booze. No focus, no active career/interests, no tight family network to support him, nothing to make him feel that that there's a life out there for him after booze.

[lexi22]

Originally Posted by elgransenor1

Is it? how do you know?

I'll be surprised if it is and if thats the case then most people must fail- because surely the point of entering rehab is that you've finally made a decision to change your life, and theres no going back now.

rather than "i'll just have one last one for the road" rather a half-hearted approach, don't you think?

people like gazza seem to be in and out of rehab more often than katie price gets through husbands.

Because I've worked in the field and read and heard countless 1st hand accounts from those entering rehab expressing their fears and hopes for their treatment.

You just prove with every post that you have a very limited understanding of addiction so I'm done here. It's boring.

[elgransenor1]

Originally Posted by lexi22

Because I've worked in the field and read and heard countless 1st hand accounts from those entering rehab expressing their fears and hopes for their treatment.

You just prove with every post that you have a very limited understanding of addiction so I'm done here.

well thats a relief to know.

[whatever54]

Originally Posted by lexi22

Oh for heaven's sake, you'd think Gascoigne was the only alcoholic who behaves like this! Seriously. Having a last drink/taking one last hit is almost a ritual for people going into rehab. Courage, fear of what's next, clinging on to their 'comfort blanket'. He's an addict, he's weak, he's terrified of failing again, and probably also terrified of a future without the one thing that helps him cope. That's what rehab is for, to change that mindset and help him see that a life without booze is a possibility.

I hope this isn't going to be another one of those 2-week celebrity 'rehabs' though. What he needs is intensive structured rehab for a minimum of 3 months and then see where he's at. Anyway, best of luck to him.

Great post I agree, really hope like you say that he sticks at rehab for at least 3 months and this is the 'one' that finally registers. I think the big problem with Gazza is lack of direction/career once the rehab is over & thus not a lot to fill his day. Hopefully he can find something to throw his time into and keep himself on the straight and narrow

[axlgod]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

I've worked with people with addiction problems. Unless the person reaches that moment where they themselves say "enough", they aren't on the road to recovery. Even when they do, it's tough enough.

It's very interesting you should say that.
I've recently read a book called 'The Heroin Diaries' by Nikki Sixx (motley Crüe bassist), he was addicted to heroin, it basically took over his life, he wasn't interested in money, fame, or women, he just wanted his fix of heroin & went to extraordinary lengths for his addiction.
After many years of abuse, he woke up one morning and just said "enough, I don't want this anymore".
He's been clean ever since.

[QueenMaude]

Originally Posted by My Sweet Life

You've never had to see someone you love and care about battle alcohol addiction, have you?

My uncle died of alcoholism -he died because he chose alcohol over health. I think by saying alcoholism is a disease seems a bit like you are saying that person has no control over their alcoholic behaviours... My uncle just couldn't control himself, he didn't really want to because he was alone, he had no motivation to quit, and his life is 100% in his hands. That's why in my eyes he committed suicide as he was told if u continue you will die within weeks. And he chose to do that. You have to save yourself. I know it sounds harsh but after all the times he stopped he chose to start again and we had to watch his 92 year mother go through hell, then she had to go to his funeral.

So as for Gazza, he could have all the support in the world but if he doesn't want to truly choose life, then I think he will let the booze kill him.

[elgransenor1]

Originally Posted by axlgod

It's very interesting you should say that.
I've recently read a book called 'The Heroin Diaries' by Nikki Sixx (motley Crüe bassist), he was addicted to heroin, it basically took over his life, he wasn't interested in money, fame, or women, he just wanted his fix of heroin & went to extraordinary lengths for his addiction.
After many years of abuse, he woke up one morning and just said "enough, I don't want this anymore".
He's been clean ever since.

exactly! not rocket science is it.

you'd think the way some people talk on this thread, you might as well have a stag do before you go into rehab!

[Saltydog1955]

Originally Posted by axlgod

It's very interesting you should say that.
I've recently read a book called 'The Heroin Diaries' by Nikki Sixx (motley Crüe bassist), he was addicted to heroin, it basically took over his life, he wasn't interested in money, fame, or women, he just wanted his fix of heroin & went to extraordinary lengths for his addiction.
After many years of abuse, he woke up one morning and just said "enough, I don't want this anymore".
He's been clean ever since.

But did he go to rehab to get over the addiction?

I find it hard to believe he just woke up one day, said 'no more' and never took it again. If it was that easy, every addict would be able to do it, and like every human being, all addicts are different.

[Blondie X]

Originally Posted by Saltydog1955

But did he go to rehab to get over the addiction?

I find it hard to believe he just woke up one day, said 'no more' and never took it again. If it was that easy, every addict would be able to do it, and like every human being, all addicts are different.

You're right, every addict is a unique human being and it's ridiculous to say just because one found giving up easy that another won't struggle.

I don't like talking about it on here very much but I've said before that my mum is an alcoholic who has been sober for almost 30 years but she can still have times when it's a struggle, even after all these years.

My mum is an intelligent, educated woman with a long career as a midwife. She managed to hide her drinking for years and hid it well enough to hold down a stressful job. Her problem was that, because she hid her drinking, she didn't have a support system because no one knew how bad she had got behind closed doors except for me and I was a kid, what did I know about addiction? It was really meeting my stepdad and falling pregnant with my brother at the rope old age of 41 that made her realise she had to stop and, by then, she had someone she trusted enough to tell the truth.

Some people can be complete p*ssheads all of their lives and never develop a dependency. Others are hooked almost from the first glass. None of us know who has the tendency towards addiction and who doesn't, almost until it's too late.

Gazza can do it if he really wants to but I really don't know if he does want it badly enough. Like others on here, I agree that his life was playing football and, without the game and the camaraderie, he's a lost soul who has no direction in his life.

[whatever54]

Originally Posted by Saltydog1955

But did he go to rehab to get over the addiction?

I find it hard to believe he just woke up one day, said 'no more' and never took it again. If it was that easy, every addict would be able to do it, and like every human being, all addicts are different.

I'm confused too, that book I believe was about 1986-87 but he was in rehab in 2001
Would be great if was as easy as waking up and saying 'that's it I'm through with this' and going cold turkey but seems slightly unlikely, particularly with heroin

[axlgod]

Originally Posted by Saltydog1955

But did he go to rehab to get over the addiction?

I find it hard to believe he just woke up one day, said 'no more' and never took it again. If it was that easy, every addict would be able to do it, and like every human being, all addicts are different.

He tried everything to kick his addiction including rehab, but as a hardcore junkie, he always relapsed. (one near fatal overdose left him clinically dead for 4 minutes).
After many failed attempts to go clean, he literally woke one morning & quit. That was in 1992.

There will be help for Gazza, but ultimately, it's down to him & him only.