[MTUK1]

There's an interesting article here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_shopping#Canada

It seems that it's countries in Europe that have the most restrictions on Sunday shopping.

[Stiffy78]

Originally Posted by 1Mickey

They already are seperate.

Where do you live?

[Inkblot]

Originally Posted by davidmcn

I would have thought that looking at what its effect is in an adjoining country with an almost identical economy would be highly relevant. Do you think there are any other significant differences in the retail sector between, say, Glasgow and Manchester?

I don't see how the retail economies of Scotland and England can be identical when Scotland only has a fraction of the population of England.

[nethwen]

No.

Bring back Wednesday half-day closing too.

[unique]

Originally Posted by *Joe*

. But if the law stays the same then it's a level playing field.

it's not really a level playing field is some stores can open 24/7 and trade 24/7 whilst others can open 24/7 but on trade for 6 hours on a sunday

what sense does it make if two stores of a similar size have different rules just because one is 2,999 square feet and the other is 3,001 square feet? both have the same number of staff and are owned by the same company, whether it's tesco, asda, B&Q, comet, etc? how is it a level playing field if a slightly larger store is restricted by hours when a slightly smaller one isn't?

what sense does that make?

[nethwen]

Originally Posted by MTUK1

There's an interesting article here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_shopping#Canada

It seems that it's countries in Europe that have the most restrictions on Sunday shopping.

And Germany has the most strict restrictions, apparently. Yet, their economy is solid, compared to much of the rest of Europe. Go figure.

[MTUK1]

Originally Posted by Inkblot

I don't see how the retail economies of Scotland and England can be identical when Scotland only has a fraction of the population of England.

Oh Jesus H Christ. Nobody said they were exactly the same, but despite Scotland having different laws, their culture and buying habits are pretty much the same. You make it sound like we're talking about England and Madagascar.

[MTUK1]

Originally Posted by nethwen

And Germany has the most strict restrictions, apparently. Yet, their economy is solid, compared to much of the rest of Europe. Go figure.

One of the reasons their economy is more solid is at the expense of other Eurozone members as monetary policy is set to benefit them and sod the rest of the Eurozone, but that's an argument for another day.

[James2001]

It's funny how a lot of people use the bible as a reason for restrictions on what you can do on Sunday. Well, what if it was another religion's rules being dictated to you? What if the govenrment bought in rules saying you couldn't eat food in daylight during ramadan? How is that any different to telling non-christians what they can and can't do on Sunday?

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by Inkblot

Yes, that was exactly my point. England has roughly 60 towns or cities of over 100,000 inhabitants. Scotland has four. It's just not realistic to say that because something causes no problems in Scotland it won't cause any in England. Sure, there are valid arguments in favour of extending Sunday trading hours in England, but "because it works in Scotland" isn't one of them.

Equally, there are valid arguments against it. These debates become a bit frustrating when the people on one side pretend that the other side doesn't have a case.

What difference do you think there would be between the central belt of Scotland and a swathe of populated England? Rural areas are different, whether Argyll or Cornwall. But do you really think the effects of Sunday trading would be any different on someone in Coalville than on someone in Coatbridge?

My point is that yes, there are always arguments for both sides, but it isn't some unknown, untested situation.

[Dare Devil]

Originally Posted by James2001

It's funny how a lot of people use the bible as a reason for restrictions on what you can do on Sunday. Well, what if it was another religion's rules being dictated to you? What if the govenrment bought in rules saying you couldn't eat food in daylight during ramadan? How is that any different to telling non-christians what they can and can't do on Sunday?

I would have the same opinion. No religion tells me what I can and cannot do on any day of the week or time.

I'm an atheist, I don't follow any religion and any religion that dictates to me what I can and cannot do will get the same answer and it wouldn't be polite.

[Stiffy78]

Originally Posted by Inkblot

I don't see how the retail economies of Scotland and England can be identical when Scotland only has a fraction of the population of England.

You can legitimately compare the retail economies of Glasgow (population 592,820) and Manchester (population 503,100) as the poster you quoted was doing. Similar sized cities a little over 200 miles apart with a lot of cultural and social similarities.

A change in the rules wouldn't mean that shops would have to open in places where it wouldn't work, just that they could in places where they thought it would if they chose to do so.

[1Mickey]

Dare Devil;

The recession doesn't effect everyone, there are still lots and lots of people that don't have financial worries and are making mega money.

People who have money don't tend to fritter it away on things they don't need and if their were loads od people making lega money and spending it i doubt shop sales would be going down like they are.

Additional hours means, employess get a little extra income, possibly dosposable meaning they would be spending it in stores.

Being required to do additional hours means you have less time to spend money and besides,most of the shops affected by this are supermarkets and most people have limits to how much they can eat.

It still takes staff and for people to work on a Sunday though, possibly longer than 6 hours too. Pointless arguement.

Actually a lot of online companies have limited customer services on the weekends or just outsource to Indian callcentres and i've never heard of one that offers next day delivery on a weekend.

I'm sure a couple more hours wouldn't hurt existing employees. Or if it's an extra day, they would just have a different day off. Many retail contracts are for 5, 8,or 12 hours or other pointless hours.

As long as they're not parents or have no social life.

The only problem would be if an employee has to rely on public transport. It's non-existant on a Sunday here (buses) and only hourly between 9.30 and 4.30 Mon - Fri, 9.30 til 3.30 Saturday.

I agree with that and a lot of people on low wages or unrelyable hours would be affected in that way.

Why are supermarkets always singled out? It's not just food stores, it's all stores. As already said, the recession doesn't effect everyone.

This change will only affect stores over a certain size.

The other point it's called choice and freedom. I've just started my weekend, it'd be good to get the food shopping out of the way so I can get on with my weekend, however, shops aren't normally open on Sunday evenings so I can't. Someone starting their weekend on a Friday envening can. Why is it fair that they can go to the shop after work, but I can't?

Maybe their are others who work on tills who feel doing shopping on a Sunday evening would be more covenient for them.Why should you be the only one who gets a choice?

If an employee already works a Sunday, then it might be a couple of extra hours, no big deal and a bit of extra income.

I don't think its for you to decide whats a big deal for others.

If an existing employee is needed to work on a Sunday, they would just have a different day off.

You're assuming they have no life again.

It wouldn't be a 7 day working week and no day off. Emergency service workers do just fine working on a SUnday, where's their choice?

People know what they're getting into whe they work for emergency services.Wanting to go to tesco on a sunday evening is not an emergency.

How is refusing to work a Sunday any different to refusing to work a Monday or a Thursday? None, so would anyone refuse to work any other day of the week ending in a Y?

I've already answered that.You can't ask the school to swap a Sunday off for a weekday so you can take the kids out or ask a church to swap a sunday for a week day.If that doesn't affect you then thats nice for you but it doesn't give you the right to dictate to others how they should have to live.

You couldn't be more wrong. Why do you think this law exists? The church says that Sunday is the sabath day. The day of rest. The church is imposing religious law on everyone in this country no matter what their religious beliefs or if they are non-believers or atheists.

The law goes back to a time when the church had power.It doesn't anymore.The reason that law is staying the same is because their are enough lib dems Labour and Tories who want it left that way.

What about everyone else who has to work on a Sunday?

Once the law is changed its a bugger to chage it back.

I have to work a Sunday because funnily enough poeple like to go out and have a meal or have a drink on a Sunday.

If you signed up for it then that was your choice.

Oh how on earth does everyone else cope that work in industries where employees work on a Sunday?

I'm sure you're capable of watching Jeremy Kyle.

There are many poeple within the emergency services that work a Sunday and have a family, let alone all the people that work in say tv and radio?e point is, why single out retail? If emergency services and other personell didn't work on a Sunday there'd be a whole load of trouble.

People don't do those jobs because they need money.Those jobs are vocations.

Any more pointless arguements?

You're only saying its pointless because it doesn't affect you.

keep them coming. It seems that only those without a family, no kids and are single are allowed to work a Sunday.

Don't you just love a bit of discrimination.

I was thinking the same thing.

[1Mickey]

Originally Posted by Stiffy78

Where do you live?

No comment.

[James2001]

Originally Posted by Dare Devil

I would have the same opinion. No religion tells me what I can and cannot do on any day of the week or time.

I'm an atheist, I don't follow any religion and any religion that dictates to me what I can and cannot do will get the same answer and it wouldn't be polite.

Exactly- it's no different. These christians seem to think it's OK to dicate their rules onto other people (not just Sunday shopping, but things like gay marriage too), but they'd be the first to complain if another religion was pushing thier beliefs onto them.

[RobinOfLoxley]

FFS there are succinct 'bite size replies' and other bite size replies

[Inkblot]

Originally Posted by MTUK1

Oh Jesus H Christ. Nobody said they were exactly the same, but despite Scotland having different laws, their culture and buying habits are pretty much the same. You make it sound like we're talking about England and Madagascar.

... which is why I said the debate becomes frustrating when one side pretends that the other doesn't have any valid arguments. One side tries to explain its case, and the other says "Oh Jesus H Christ" and completely ignores the point.

[Stiffy78]

Originally Posted by 1Mickey

No comment.

Just wondered as if it is somewhere where the church and state are seperate then these proposals wouldn't affect it.

[1Mickey]

Originally Posted by Stiffy78

Just wondered as if it is somewhere where the church and state are seperate then these proposals wouldn't affect it.

They're only connected on paper.The government decide when to blame the church.It doesn't mean the Church are the real reason for anything happening to law.

[Stiffy78]

Originally Posted by 1Mickey

They're only connected on paper.The government decide when to blame the church.It doesn't mean the Church are the real reason for anything happening to law.

You said the chuch and state were already seperate.
That can never be the case in a country with an official state religion with automatic representation in the legislature.

[Sexbomb]

We should make this like some countries in Europe, open s few hours. 2 hour siesta in afternoon and stay open til late in the evening.

[1Mickey]

Originally Posted by Stiffy78

You said the chuch and state were already seperate.
That can never be the case in a country with an official state religion with automatic representation in the legislature.

They may be in the same room but it doesn't mean they have power to force anyone to do anything.

[neo_wales]

Originally Posted by Blofeld

You're right.

We should have a tranquil day, so lets make it Sunday.

We could start by not arbitrarily restricting people to all shop between random times on a Sunday. If we let them shop whenever they like on a Sunday then people will be free to come and go as they like and not all que at the same time. There would be less traffic because no one would be in a rush to get the shopping done before the shop closes at the ridiculous time of 4pm. People go spend the day with their families and then go shopping at night on the way home from a day out. Sounds good!

I'm thinking more about shutting shops at 14:00. If an eatery wants to stay open fine, shut the rest and just chill out.

[habby]

Originally Posted by MTUK1

There's an interesting article here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_shopping#Canada

It seems that it's countries in Europe that have the most restrictions on Sunday shopping.

As quoted in post #195

[Sesay2000]

I think extended opening hours make sense for a city like London which is busy with people/tourists 7 days a week. It was nice being able to shop in Westfield after 6pm tonight. I always think it's odd everything closing at 6pm in such a major world city (this is unheard of in places like NY). In smaller provincial towns and cities it might not make so much sense and no one is forcing those stores to open longer hours on Sundays. London should be allowed to extend at the very minimum.