I can't really blame you for trying to weasel out of discussing Sheila's leather beachwear! I'm not sure she's going to be in the FHM top 100 on the strength of such an interesting look...

I thought I could have started liking Sophie, but last few nights have really grated on me when she has "pretended" to be disappointed at not being voted out when A&D have announced she is staying. I noticed last night she only thanked the public after the others did - she is a spolit brat imo.

You don't really think Sophie's and Shelia's behaviour was the same, do you? Sure, there's something in common, but also many differences. Nancy, on the other hand ...

BTW, I don't think Sheila was in a bikini (as opposed to some other swimming costume) "most of her stay".

I interpreted that as Sophie thanking the public for keeping Fran, so she'd have company her own age. Though your interp. could be right too! But I just thought I'd mention that I read that situation differently.

Maybe you are right - but she still has started to grate on me, even though I think the bullying is unacceptable, she just has a manner about her that I find irritating.

Sophie is a model, shes young and has a career. Who can really blame her for showing off her body a bit?
Its not as if shes going OTT like stripping off or anything (as i think some previous contestants may have done).
It would be far less understandable for her to cover up in that environment as neurotic Natalie did......thats a serious sign of anorexia!
Also i seem to remember when she made the skirt out of the shorts, Paul I think it was told her that she should make it shorter to which she refused, saying it was short enough.

Its a game in there and they have to use what they have...Janet is using her arrogance and bullying to win. In fact what Janet is doing is far worse because shes knocking other people in order to barge her way to the top (as she has done in life).

Also i think Sophie is quite clever and witty. The remark about her being the only sparrow left at the mercy of the blackbird and hawk was very good!

You are now revealing your true motives. You are in love with sweet cocaine-snorting "recovering" addict Sophie

If she wins, it would be the end for her, as her drug-altered perception of accomplishment (ranking model - beating Jordan's record), acceptance and love by the GBP would see fit to snort more lines of cocaine, ingest more illegal drugs and fight more lovers. All these of course would be dutifully reported to the masses by the ragtops.

That's going to come as quite a surprise to my boyfriend! Though possibly I could get him to dress up in a red mini and a blue vest, and we'll weather the storm together... Please tell me you aren't going to purchase a studded leather bikini, though... please?

Though actually, I'm sure you'd look better than Sheila in it!

Sophie won't win, I've never thought she would. Needless to say, I think our views on her future are wildly divergent, though!

Sure, that makes sense. But people often do think there's something wrong with it.


Nat didn't dress that differently from some of the others, and people vary greatly in their response to temperature.

This is exactly the sort of thing that interests me here. You spin against Natalie (and Janet) but for Sophie. Why? I can see why Nat irritates (though she doesn't irritate me), but how has Sophie managed to get on the right side of so many?


You can't know that Janet is "using her arrogance and bullying to win." Come on! Does it even make sense?


Very good? Really? I won't deny clever (she quickly understood how to put the tree house together, for example), but she hasn't shown much wit.

Sorry; I'm just using you as an example. Sophie says a witty thing; it fits into a picture you have of her; she does something that might irritate, you see an explanation and point to someone else, making them seem worse.

That's pretty much normal behaviour here, and I do it too.

The overriding and most important reason that i like Sophie is because i havn`t seen her being nasty about, or to anyone in the camp...In stark contrast shes been constantly attacked by just about everyone at some time or other. IMO She has shown true character by rising above it!

Of course shes not perfect but the things she is criticised for are really quite negligible on the grand scale of things.

Basically i think shes a good person unlike some others who cannot help reverting to type (not mentioning any names JSP)

She is always accused of attention seeking behaviour but most of the others are much more guilty of that, just in different ways. She has faults but none are IMO to an extreme. Allround I think shes a pretty sound person. The fact that she is attractive does if anything go against her as far as the voting gos because of preconceived ideas about her using her looks/body to win..

Apologies where necessary.

I am not surprised that you accuse me of weaseling out of a discussion on Diva Sheila's "leather beachwear".

It is the favourite tactic of FMs, next to unfounded accusations of racism and anti-Semitism, to ask the "what-about-this-and that" questions to divert the focus from the original topic at the heart of the argument in the first place to win an argument.

I cannot recall (at this time) the online term for it, but if I do, I would be sure to revive this thread just for you

The topic is Sophie and her quest for victory by 24/7 bikini wear. Not Natalie, Sheila or Nancy. Finding no excuse in support of your position, out popped the "what-about-this-and-that " questions. All too predictable.

Diva Sheila's "leather beachwear" is not the topic, that was why I made the effort to steer the discussion back on track.

She was lying down on her bed for the most part when in bikini garb, not prancing about in a two-piece skimpy bra-and-thong ensemble suitable only for your average model desperate for a bikini contract.

As a loyal, come-hell-or-highwater Sophie-can-do-no-wrong fan, I would be deeply disappointed had you interpreted otherwise.

Is calling someone a "total bitch" and behind-their-backing in the telegraph "rising above it"? (Just for example.)

Come on! She hasn't been a turn-the-other-cheek saint about everything.


None of them have done anything very wrong on the grand scheme of things.


it's possible to interpret everything that's shown on tv as attention seeking. After all, it "worked", beause it was shown, wasn't it?


You'd think. But it doesn't seem to be.

Personally, if it wasn't for the other 'celebs' in their, I'd have had Sophie at the bottom of my list. She does seem to always talk about herself!

But for reasons I don't know, jealousy perhaps, it has looked like the poor girl has been totally isolated in there since the beginning.

The points I'd like to make are that ...what is the problem if she always talks about herself? You ignore it. To have a problem with it imo says that that person sees her as a threat! There is no evidence apart from what Janet or Sheila has said that says Sophie hasn't pulled her wait....that says it all, two middle aged women jealous of her.

Like I said above, I don't particularly like Sophie much......but I do believe she is being singled out for abuse from some quarters in there, saying that Sheila and Huggy have gone, so it should get better!

I think she because of the stick, because of Natalie's stupid go at her for no reason, that she does well

Although Iwon't be voting for her

It is entirely legitimate to ask why an individual is being criticised for an act that is matched by the acts of other people.

If Sophie is to be criticised for attempting to gain votes by "dressing provacatively" then Nancy and Sheila should be equally criticised - as should Fran.

No-one cares about what Sophie is wearing. If she thinks that its helping her to gain votes (as no doubt Fran, Sheila, Jordan, Catalina, Nell and TPT thought), then she is largely mistaken. But at least the bikini tactic isn't as self-defeating as the tactics used by many other contestants.

I can't agree more

Interesting points.

What "tactics used by many other contestants" do you mean?

You may be surprised to know that quite a few thousand people care about what a contestant is wearing on this show. The term "eye candy" is not used without reason. And of course, Sophie knows this.

No, she did a lot with Paul and Joe on the tree house, spend much time with Nancy, and was on friendly terms with Natalie after their fight -- and those are just the examples I can easily recall.


It's hard to ignore someone when you're stuck in a small space with them.


Why? They can't just find it annoying?


There is no evidence vs you don't know of any.

Nancy was criticised. Sheila wasn't dressing as provocatively.


How do you know it's not gaining her votes? Or that it isn't self-defeating? Or that the others are using the "tactics" you think they are?

I can't see beyond that wonky face. Sorry.

Veri, I feel like a laboritary rat being dissected!
I knew you were going to say something like that re. calling Nat a total bitch.....come on now, the girl was defending herself from an unwarrented and vicious attack by a psychotic, mentally disturbed individual!...what do u expect her to do??..lie down and say "kick me!!??"
In the telegraph it was the same thing...she was defending herself!

Secondly i disagree that none of them have done nothing wrong in the grand scheme of things...JSP and Seilas cruel bullying of Sophie in my books is pretty bad! ....What is Sophies crime?..showing a little too much flesh for some peoples liking!

"It worked" as u say because it was shown . But did it work in her favour or against because now shes losing as many if not more votes for being "attention seeking". Im sure theres other forms of attention seeking behaviour by some others not involving flesh exposure which was edited out ..and thats probably to their advantage.

lastly:...I think she has and will suffer in the voting stakes because of the preconceived ideas i mentioned .. Its probably one of the main reasons why models as contestants have never done very well in the past.

[quote=Veri]No, she did a lot with Paul and Joe on the tree house, spend much time with Nancy, and was on friendly terms with Natalie after their fight -- and those are just the examples I can easily recall.


It's hard to ignore someone when you're stuck in a small space with them.


Why? They can't just find it annoying?


There is no evidence vs you don't know of any.[/QUO

Oh but they seemed to have a HUGE!!! problem with it

Do they think we are imbeciles or something? If its there we'll catch on..........but us GBP don't like those celebs who are of course as much attention seeking in their own way as she is ( unless of course you decide to play the game of 'sitting on the fence' ) telling us ALL the time

We would of course like to come to this decision ourselves

Sorry!

I didn't say it was wrong or wasn't understandable. I said (or, rather, implied) that it wasn't "rising above it".

Not one word of that is true.

Against what? Viewers who might think she had risen above it?


Not in the grand scheme of things. Also, JSP and Soph even get along well most of the time, and Sophie doesn't seem to be upset with Janet.

Let's see, Nell? What worked against her was that she said nothing, not that she looked good underdressed. Jordan? Did astonishingly well, to the point of "Heroine of our time" articles in the broadsheets. Scantily dressed TPT (ok, not exactly a model, but)? Came second.

The big winners (even if they don't win) are the ones who turn around preconceived ideas.

Sophie might be doing that. She has done pretty well, you know. At worst, if she's the next to go, she's the least popular of the popular.

I'm going to stop giving the Sophie fans a hard time now.

Cheers!

Thats ok , We dont mind!...We know we have the stronger argument!