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Old 03-09-2012, 13:07
RobbieSykes123
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''The Paralympics was the highest-rated show at 9 pm ...apart from the BBC's Inspector George Gently''

So it wasn't the highest-rated show at 9 pm at all


ITV1 was most watched channel last night. After BBC1 and C4.

How long before Miller slips that one in....?
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:08
centauri72
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Interesting discussion regarding Doctor Who, frankly I've been surprised by the negativity from some quarters about it's overnight rating when it always timeshifts very well, the bigger question is whether it needs the primetime slot I guess.
Thought you might want to know, looking at the latest data, with another day's playback viewing included, it's audience has gone up to 7.4m, so we've added another 1m. Obviously, there are usually diminishing playback factors as the days go on, but DW is a different beast to usual shows in terms of timeshifting so who knows...the opening episode of last season is still to this day the most time-shifted programme ever so dont discount anything.
So - for those insisting on level playing fields - on overnights alone Doctor Who was the most watched programme on any BBC channel over the weekend, and second only to X-Factor among most watched programmes on any channel full stop (beating last night's Coronation Street). On overnights it is tenth for the week.

It's official ratings after 24 hours are consistent, at least, with the average timeshift of last year (over a full week) of more than 1.5million, and may well be on course to get something comparable to the 2 million plus timeshift which the opening episodes of its 2010 and 2011 runs got. To use the level playing field again, comparing official ratings for all programmes, an official rating of around 8 to 8.5 million is therefore likely, meaning that Doctor Who will probably end up in the top 5 for the week, and very possibly in the top 3.

All that before arguably the most important ratings argument of the lot - little debated on this thread. Not all viewers are of equal value or interest to broadcasters.

This is obviously true for commercial channels - some viewers are more attractive to advertisers of certain products. But it is also true for the BBC - some viewers are "superserved" by the Corporation, watching huge amounts of its output in multiple genres - notably older viewers overall, and female viewers for drama in particular.

Doctor Who is valuable to the BBC because those who do watch it include very large numbers of those whom the Beeb often find difficult to attract for most other programming - children & teenagers, 18-35 year olds, families in Sky homes, ethnic minorities and (for drama) males. So, bluntly, 6-8 million viewers for Doctor Who are worth more to the BBC, who have a mission to appeal to everyone in the UK, than 9 million for New Tricks or 10 million for Call the Midwife (a much higher proportion of whose viewers are in demographic groups which the BBC serves very well with lots of other programmes).

And of course precisely because DW's audience demographic includes far more people who have and use PVRs and Iplayer than the average for BBC programmes as a whole - whether because of their age/sex/family circumstances/geekery - naturally a higher proportion of its audience timeshifts than is the case for (almost any other) programme.

So, sorry to disappoint the critics on this thread - Doctor Who is doing very well and the BBC have no reason to be anything other than delighted with it.
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:09
morph1970
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Like everything else on here, it depends on your choice of definition. I think most regard "timeshift" as the difference between the reported overnight and consolidated figures, not "actual live" and consolidated. From overnight figures, it's Downton that wears the crown.
Why not? Overnights already include some timeshifters, and if you watch at midnight on the same day, you're certainly not someone who's watching 'live'. I think most would regard 'actual live' viewers as the only one who aren't timeshift viewers. So there!
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:09
Georged123
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Like everything else on here, it depends on your choice of definition. I think most regard "timeshift" as the difference between the reported overnight and consolidated figures, not "actual live" and consolidated. From overnight figures, it's Downton that wears the crown.
For me, "timeshift" viewing is anything that is done after the "live" showing has finished, whether that is an hour later on the same night or 6 days later, it's still timeshifted viewing.

The overnight figures are "live" figures and "timeshift" figures before 2am.
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:11
morph1970
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So - for those insisting on level playing fields - on overnights alone Doctor Who was the most watched programme on any BBC channel over the weekend, and second only to X-Factor among most watched programmes on any channel full stop (beating last night's Coronation Street). On overnights it is tenth for the week.

It's official ratings after 24 hours are consistent, at least, with the average timeshift of last year (over a full week) of more than 1.5million, and may well be on course to get something comparable to the 2 million plus timeshift which the opening episodes of its 2010 and 2011 runs got. To use the level playing field again, comparing official ratings for all programmes, an official rating of around 8 to 8.5 million is therefore likely, meaning that Doctor Who will probably end up in the top 5 for the week, and very possibly in the top 3.

All that before arguably the most important ratings argument of the lot - little debated on this thread. Not all viewers are of equal value or interest to broadcasters.

This is obviously true for commercial channels - some viewers are more attractive to advertisers of certain products. But it is also true for the BBC - some viewers are "superserved" by the Corporation, watching huge amounts of its output in multiple genres - notably older viewers overall, and female viewers for drama in particular.

Doctor Who is valuable to the BBC because those who do watch it include very large numbers of those whom the Beeb often find difficult to attract for most other programming - children & teenagers, 18-35 year olds, families in Sky homes, ethnic minorities and (for drama) males. So, bluntly, 6-8 million viewers for Doctor Who are worth more to the BBC, who have a mission to appeal to everyone in the UK, than 9 million for New Tricks or 10 million for Call the Midwife (a much higher proportion of whose viewers are in demographic groups which the BBC serves very well with lots of other programmes).

And of course precisely because DW's audience demographic includes far more people who have and use PVRs and Iplayer than the average for BBC programmes as a whole - whether because of their age/sex/family circumstances/geekery - naturally a higher proportion of its audience timeshifts than is the case for (almost any other) programme.

So, sorry to disappoint the critics on this thread - Doctor Who is doing very well and the BBC have no reason to be anything other than delighted with it.
Yes, on overnights alone, Doctor Who is 10th for the week, beating an EastEnders and a Coronation Street. That's higher chart position than it often achieves, I think?
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:21
centauri72
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Yes, on overnights alone, Doctor Who is 10th for the week, beating an EastEnders and a Coronation Street. That's higher chart position than it often achieves, I think?
Since its return in 2005 it has been in the Top Twenty (on officials) for all bar one episode (which was against BGT, and was No 21 ISTR). It has quite often been in the Top Ten (about half the time, and usually as this week when it is a season premiere or conclusion) and once (in 2008, for the end of David Tennant's last full season) was No 1.

And of course it's 2007 Christmas Special was No 2 for the entire year

Last edited by centauri72 : 03-09-2012 at 13:24. Reason: To add
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:24
NeilVW
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Nope, Downton Abbey (Christmas Day, ITV1 & ITV1 HD) live = 7.521m, Consolidated = 11.594m, timeshift of 4.073m
Doctor Who (The Impossible Astronaut, 23rd April'11) Live = 4.748m Consolidated = 8.859m, timeshift of 4.111m

So, DW Impossible Astronaut is still the most time shifted programme ever.
Trickytree, do you have the number of same-day and Sunday timeshifters for that DW episode please?
Also, can you confirm that same-day timeshifting includes people who are just a few seconds behind on a PVR? (live pause). Thanks.
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:25
grahamzxy
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Poor for CS, decent peak for Athletics. George Gently winning the night.....
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:29
Mike Teevee
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is it Groundhog Day, I swear we've had these conversations before

anyhoo, data for w/e 26th August 2012 is now on BARB website

I'm very impressed with the Mrs Brown's Boys repeat figures

enjoy!
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:30
Steve Williams
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The Paralympics are doing very well for the channel they are on, but not well enough that they should be rating better than the ITV competition.

And ITV should not be losing primetime to a commercial rival on a night when one of their big hitters is on.
Yes, this is a point I was making the other day, four million is impressive and consistent but ITV shouldn't be collapsing when C4 is getting four million viewers. I wouldn't have thought the combined audience for the other channels last night was particularly out of the ordinary, so ITV can't be writing this off as a completely freak occurance. ITV seems to have absolutely no loyalty from viewers whatsoever now, even C5 can hold up better when it's got a well-promoted show or a decently ordered schedule. In fact the scheduling on ITV is unbelievably poor, that may well be its biggest problem, stuff is just flung all over the place and there's no coherence half the time.

I think ITV are pulling out a few soap half hours to bolster Sunday and just like Doctor Who erratic scheduling means the Sunday live audience drops. Plus I wonder if many people knew it was there. People are out of the habit of watching Corrie on Sunday. I also think with so many episodes and ITV relying too much on soap half hours, the impact of them outside weekdays has weakened.
Well, this is something I've been banging on about for ages, it used to be that an hour-long Corrie was a big event, nowadays it comes across like a chore that has to be flung out one night to get it out of the way.

Has there been many, or indeed any, trailers that are pointing out Corrie is now back on Wednesdays full time? I've not seen any, though I don't watch ITV that much. This is surely something that needs to be hammered home.

So, sorry to disappoint the critics on this thread - Doctor Who is doing very well and the BBC have no reason to be anything other than delighted with it.
And that's without mentioning the stack of merchandising they sell from it, meaning that unless Holby City dolls are going to be flying out of Hamleys it is very much bomb-proof and has to be considered on a different level than other BBC dramas.
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:33
D.M.N.
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Mike, do you have the BBC F1 average for yesterday from 12:10 to 15:15? It didn't (rather worryingly) get into ITV Media top 10 meaning it was under 2.9 million...
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:34
cylon6
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is it Groundhog Day, I swear we've had these conversations before

anyhoo, data for w/e 26th August 2012 is now on BARB website

I'm very impressed with the Mrs Brown's Boys repeat figures

enjoy!
Thanks Mike.

Looked at The X Factor figures.

9.61m + 511k (+1) = 10.127m including +1.
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:40
Georged123
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The Great British Bake Off (4.82m) is just 0.08m behind Holby City (4.90m) now on Tuesdays.
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:42
Steve Williams
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The Great British Bake Off (4.82m) is just 0.08m behind Holby City (4.90m) now on Tuesdays.
And yet ITV still persist in showing absolutely nothing of any value opposite Holby. It's a sitting duck.
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:52
Salv*
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For CBB fans:
Excluding +1:

Monday 20th Aug- 2.22m
Tuesday- 2.37m
Wednesday- 2.42m (Jasmine's eviction)
Thursday- 2.43m
Friday- 2.15m (Cheryl's eviction)
Saturday- 1.73m
Sunday- 1.89m

With +1 all these figures will be up around 100-200k. If any of you ratings experts have Ch5+1 figures which weirdly have not been updated by BARB, would be brill
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:54
danisfunny
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Thanks Mike.

Looked at The X Factor figures.

9.61m + 511k (+1) = 10.127m including +1.
Yes and that's a 16.4% drop from the 12.12m including +1, for last year's 2nd show... Or 2 million viewers, which to give ITV some hope is less of a drop than it was based on overnights..

And up about 500k, on the week before, but for a show rating about 10m viewers its not really that significant a shift but up no less...
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:55
jake lyle
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Has there been many, or indeed any, trailers that are pointing out Corrie is now back on Wednesdays full time? I've not seen any, though I don't watch ITV that much. This is surely something that needs to be hammered home.
I have seen one promoting their new Wednesday night schedule (Corrie/All Star Mr and Mrs/Mrs Briggs).
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Old 03-09-2012, 14:03
Dancc
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Tight between C4 and C5 in the latest week of officials !

Channel 4: 5.0%
Channel 4+1: 0.9%
Channel 5: 4.8%
Channel 5+1: 0.4% (not available on cable)

To think there was a time when C4 was 5 whole share points ahead of C5.
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Old 03-09-2012, 14:09
Bushmills
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ITV seems to have absolutely no loyalty from viewers whatsoever now, even C5 can hold up better when it's got a well-promoted show or a decently ordered schedule. In fact the scheduling on ITV is unbelievably poor, that may well be its biggest problem, stuff is just flung all over the place and there's no coherence half the time.

.
Nail on the head.
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Old 03-09-2012, 14:10
trickytree1979
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Suspect most recordings will have been watched by the end of Sunday. I can't see it clearing 8m on that basis.



Like everything else on here, it depends on your choice of definition. I think most regard "timeshift" as the difference between the reported overnight and consolidated figures, not "actual live" and consolidated. From overnight figures, it's Downton that wears the crown.
Eh? Its not my 'choice' of definition, it IS the definition! Your suggestion is inconsistent on two parts.

1. A programme shown at midday and played back at midnight is counted in the overnights but for you, it's not timeshift, but a programme broadcast at 8pm and played back at 8am the following morning is timshift, when the timeshift is exactly the same time delay?

2. Your approach does not take into account commercial breaks for commercial channels. For officials, BARB remove the commercial minutes from the average audience calculation, for overnights, this is not done and its calculated on the day part average of the programme. Therefore the 'overnights' that are quoted will actually have depressed commercial minutes included, which means that when you compare overnights to officials the 'increase' (which you equate to as timeshift) is not just playback but also the lower commercial breaks being removed from the programme audience calculation. As such it would seem that commercial programmes get higher timeshift bumps than non commercial.

Let me give you an example:
X-Factor on the 18th, the overnight was 8.083m and the officials 9.102m, an increase of 1.019m. But in actual fact, the Live + VOSDAL was 8.240 when you strip out the commercials, so the real increase between Live+VOSDAL and consolidated is 0.862m.

I disagree with your premise that VOSDAL is somehow not timeshift.
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Old 03-09-2012, 14:13
RobbieSykes123
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For me, "timeshift" viewing is anything that is done after the "live" showing has finished, whether that is an hour later on the same night or 6 days later, it's still timeshifted viewing.

The overnight figures are "live" figures and "timeshift" figures before 2am.
Yes, I do agree with you. It's just that the "live" figures hardly ever get reported; the industry works off overnights and officials. It's only the change between those two that anyone really talks about.
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Old 03-09-2012, 14:14
KennyT
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Eh? Its not my 'choice' of definition, it IS the definition! Your suggestion is inconsistent on two parts.

1. A programme shown at midday and played back at midnight is counted in the overnights but for you, it's not timeshift, but a programme broadcast at 8pm and played back at 8am the following morning is timshift, when the timeshift is exactly the same time delay?

2. Your approach does not take into account commercial breaks for commercial channels. For officials, BARB remove the commercial minutes from the average audience calculation, for overnights, this is not done and its calculated on the day part average of the programme. Therefore the 'overnights' that are quoted will actually have depressed commercial minutes included, which means that when you compare overnights to officials the 'increase' (which you equate to as timeshift) is not just playback but also the lower commercial breaks being removed from the programme audience calculation. As such it would seem that commercial programmes get higher timeshift bumps than non commercial.

Let me give you an example:
X-Factor on the 18th, the overnight was 8.083m and the officials 9.102m, an increase of 1.019m. But in actual fact, the Live + VOSDAL was 8.240 when you strip out the commercials, so the real increase between Live+VOSDAL and consolidated is 0.862m.

I disagree with your premise that VOSDAL is somehow not timeshift.
You are correct TT, but, traditionally, VOSDAL figures haven't been available to us on DS, so "timeshift" has been taken to be "officials" minus "overnights", as that was all we had to go on.

K
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Old 03-09-2012, 14:14
D.M.N.
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Yes and that's a 16.4% drop from the 12.12m including +1, for last year's 2nd show... Or 2 million viewers, which to give ITV some hope is less of a drop than it was based on overnights..

And up about 500k, on the week before, but for a show rating about 10m viewers its not really that significant a shift but up no less...
Factoring in repeats:

Last year
27/08/12 - ITV1 SD - 10.634m
27/08/12 - ITV1 HD - 1.015m
27/08/12 - ITV1 +1 - 0.476m
28/08/12 - ITV2 - 0.688m (17:44)
28/08/12 - ITV2 +1 - 0.219m (18:44)
=> 13.032m

This year
25/08/12 - ITV1 SD - 8.567m
25/08/12 - ITV1 HD - 1.049m
25/08/12 - ITV1 +1 - 0.511m
26/08/12 - ITV2 - 0.646m (18:44)
26/08/12 - ITV2 +1 - 0.206m (19:44)
=> 10.979m

Which again represents a 2 million drop, or an 18.7% drop.

And for Xtra Factor:

- 2011: 1.269m + 0.266m + 1.011m + 0.279m = 2.825m
- 2012: 0.951m + 0.172m + 0.622m + 0.170m = 1.915m

Which is just under a 1 million drop, or a 47.5% drop.
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Old 03-09-2012, 14:18
D.M.N.
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Yes, I do agree with you. It's just that the "live" figures hardly ever get reported; the industry works off overnights and officials. It's only the change between those two that anyone really talks about.
I'm under the impression that DS, Broadcast etc do not have access to the raw "live" figures, otherwise I would have thought they would be noted from time to time, ie. with the Doctor Who example.
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Old 03-09-2012, 14:20
RobbieSykes123
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Eh? Its not my 'choice' of definition, it IS the definition! Your suggestion is inconsistent on two parts.

1. A programme shown at midday and played back at midnight is counted in the overnights but for you, it's not timeshift, but a programme broadcast at 8pm and played back at 8am the following morning is timshift, when the timeshift is exactly the same time delay?

2. Your approach does not take into account commercial breaks for commercial channels. For officials, BARB remove the commercial minutes from the average audience calculation, for overnights, this is not done and its calculated on the day part average of the programme. Therefore the 'overnights' that are quoted will actually have depressed commercial minutes included, which means that when you compare overnights to officials the 'increase' (which you equate to as timeshift) is not just playback but also the lower commercial breaks being removed from the programme audience calculation. As such it would seem that commercial programmes get higher timeshift bumps than non commercial.

Let me give you an example:
X-Factor on the 18th, the overnight was 8.083m and the officials 9.102m, an increase of 1.019m. But in actual fact, the Live + VOSDAL was 8.240 when you strip out the commercials, so the real increase between Live+VOSDAL and consolidated is 0.862m.

I disagree with your premise that VOSDAL is somehow not timeshift.
You completely missed my point, which I hope my reply to Georged123 clarifies. I don't disagree with anything you have posted above.
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