Alright, here we come: It's nonsense to say New Tricks is in hot water, with an overnight of 6.9m and a large timeshift to come, it will still likely be one of the top five ratings of the week. Happy?

GMTV never went as low as that...it ended on low 900ks. Yday's launch was around 400k down on the Chiles launch. And it's way down on what it was getting this time last year.

Utter rubbish, you're just trolling now.

No, we're saying the exact opposite.

When other shows timeshift to the same extent (eg DA) it gets noted when the officials come out. Until then, the overngihts (and previous history) are all there is to comment on.

K

Which we're doing. I've just done it.

Right, BBC1's Top 10 for last week w/e 26th August:

The point is that because Doctor Who timeshifts more than double the above, it makes the overnight less relevant as a result.

It would be utterly hypocritical to call its 6m overnight as poor when it timeshifts 2 million viewers.

It was a crime/phycological drama starring Martin Clunes, it was hardly an Appropriate Adult/Five Daughters thing.


2010.
Episode 2, two years ago on an Autumn Friday night got 6.69m

EDIT You edited first

So 2m for CBB. Hopefully during this last week it can start to add on another ~150k so a official of 2.4m is hopefully achievable.

Now to all the talk. I don't see what the fuss is about. In my opinion ITV did really well for a channel that has been doing atrociously these last few days. A Mothers Son did well to get 5m incl +1 up against strong competition. NT did lose a chunk of audience, but it still comfortably won the slot. It is NOT in trouble. If it regularly dips under 5m, that's when people should worry.

As for the soaps. EE did quite badly, didn't it?

It's amazing isn't it? 6.9m against serious opposition is poor for New Tricks according to Grimshaw but trailed heavily since the Olympics 'DW' did fine on 6.4m despite only having huge flop 'Red or Black' as opposition.

'it'll timeshift well':yawn:

Hopefully Marcus makes it clear at the end of tonight's show that the main show is on at 8pm tomorrow night. I could see a lot of people forgetting about it or thinking it's on at 9pm or 10pm as normal. That could kill any momentum leading up to the final.

No.

Because the point is that people see New Tricks do an overnight of 6.9 million and their first reaction is poor. People see Doctor Who do an overnight of 6.4 million their first reaction is to talk officials and catch-up and then anyone who happens to question that overnight is hammered with talk that overnights are irrelevant and that officials and catch-up are what matter. I've been pointing out for over a week now that this is a ridiculous double standard and that we have to be able to talk Doctor Who's overnights in the exact same context that we'd talk about any other shows overnights and that either means people recognise that Doctor Who's overnights aren't what they should be and that people should be able to say that without it equaling 'Doctor Who is dead' and being followed by 'timeshift, timeshift, timeshift' or that we stop having the reaction we've seen to New Tricks this morning and focus on catch-up and officials.

It doesn't matter if New Tricks 'only' has a timeshift of 1 million (or less). That's an additional million viewers plus whatever they're picking up on iPlayer. Why are those viewers any less relevant and important than the people who watch Doctor Who in the same way? And how do we know that given the drama opposition on ITV that New Trick's timeshift and catch-up audience won't grow this week? There's no reason why we should be ignoring the timeshift and catch-up viewers of New Tricks and other BBC dramas when they're so highly prized and pushed for Doctor Who.


Ecstatic.


Previous history like - Episode 2, two years ago on an Autumn Friday night got 6.69m

And again why does the size of the timeshift matter? Someone explain to me why people who watch Doctor Who via timeshift and iPlayer are more important than people who watch any other drama by the same means? I get the argument for commercial television (and I agree with it) but I don't understand why the fact Doctor Who timeshifts 1.7 million means its officials are what matter yet the fact New Tricks timeshifts x amount means its officials aren't important and we shouldn't hesitate to judge it on its overnights.

That's the danger of throwing words like 'poor' around. Whilst I would generally expect New Tricks to rate higher than Doctor Who, it does look odd to describe New Tricks' 6.9m as poor and Doctor Who's 6.4m as good. I definitely think shows should be judged on their own standards and not compared with randon other shows, but poor isn't really the right word to use. 'Disappointing', 'lacklustre' or a variant of 'low by its standards' sums it up better.

And another thing, yes we all know that Doctor Who timeshifts very well but it doesn't mean that the overnight is completely irrelevant. Less relevant yes, but not completely irrelevant. Also this notion that Doctor Who timeshifts 'double everything else' is a load of rubbish too. Yes it timeshifts very well with an average timeshift of 1.8m for the last series, but shows like Sherlock, Downton Abbey and Call The Midwife get similar if not higher timeshifts, and even shows like Scott & Bailey and BGT auditions were adding 1.5-1.7m on, so Doctor Who isn't exactly out on its own in this regard either, and I don't see the overnights are irrelevant argument being trotted out with those shows, so I do agree that it is peculiar that any criticism of Doctor Who is shot down with that argument but criticism of the other shows I've mentioned (and other shows which timeshift very well) isn't shot down with the same statements.

Hardly, with it coming close to 7 million. Yes, it's not as good as it was, but that's still a very good rating

Because there are about 1 million more of them?
Because (probably) they come from a "more important" (ie younger) demographic?
Because we haven't had any hint about NTs timeshift this year yet? Whereas DW has already reached over 7.4m after one days timeshifting.
Because there have been high profile arguments about the direction that NT is moving in, hence some people wondering if a relatively poor overnight rating would mean the end of the show (only when the officials come out will we know if that pessimism is justified).

Pick from the above!

K

Who? WHO? WHO?! WHOOOOOOOO?!?

You keep saying 'people'? WHICH people?

None of this is what I'm saying. Or Andy Parish. Or DMN. If some people are spouting baloney about New Tricks being in trouble, let them. Doesn't mean we should apply the same moronic standard and say the same about Doctor Who.

I agree 100% Alex. I no longer venture onto the Doctor Who threads because so many posters there are so self-righteous and rude when it comes to discussing viewing figures. If anyone there dares suggest that overnights are not as they were and perhaps the BBC may need to look at who or what is affecting these declines, you get jumped on immediately as being a "troll" and that overnights are no longer relevant and that it is the time shift that is the only thing that matters.

Yet, for every single other show, if overnights are down it is "in deep water" or "time to be scrapped" or "heads will roll". Either you are going to be consistent in analysis or not analyse at all. As far as I am concerned all shows need to be judged exactly on the same merits. You can't just say "Oh people no longer regard Doctor Who as appointment TV so it time shifts well". It may well time shift well. But if other shows are still attracting high overnights because they are still being regarded as appointment TV, a question regarding "WHY" Doctor Who is no longer regarded as appointment Tv needs to be addressed. Timeshifting well or not, if people no longer regard a show as appointment TV, there is only a matter of time when timeshifts are affected too.

Is Doctor Who in trouble? No. But if Moffat gets his way and casts a woman as the Doctor I would suggest it would be. The man is deluded if he thinks fans will openly accept this could be the case. If it was the case, why during eleven regenerations, hasn't there been a woman before?

But NO-ONE is saying New Tricks' timeshift doesn't matter. And if anyone does, they're an idiot. Why are you arguing with something that no-one is actually claiming?

And yesterday was the big launch day, the day when you would have expected more people to watch out of curiosity if nothing else.

Eh? He's on record as saying he wouldn't ever cast a woman as the Doctor, and doesn't think it's a particularly good idea! And what the hell has that got to do with ratings anyway?

This whole post is bollux. DW is just another show. Of course it's not in trouble and over 6 million for an overnight is good. But it's about consistency. If DW recast Tennant and overnights soared back up to 8-9 million what would your argument be then? Chances are they would do.

No. He has recently said that he wouldn't rule out casting a woman. It's about ratings because it could ultimately affect the shows viewing figures.

New Tricks wasn't poor, it was the rest of BBC One's line up that did less than well.

New Tricks is just down.

As the overnights have fallen, the timeshifts have increased. Where is the logic in suggesting if the overnights fall further, then it's only 'a matter of time when timeshifts are affected [presumably you mean 'drop'] too'? If anything the evidence so far suggests that the timeshifts would become greater still.

Matt Barbet was getting more viewers on 5 News at 5.

To be fair, the hour he presents with Ranvir Singh looks to be the best hour of the programme. I don't see why they couldn't present all of it.

The key demographic will probably respond in due time, though. The studio is far warmer and more inviting than the last incarnation. Just a slight question mark over this pairing of Lorraine Kelly and Aled Jones.