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The Ratings Thread (Part 39)


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Old 23-08-2012, 19:00
jake lyle
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One thing I dont understand with Channel5, is how can E4 and even now ITV2 be able to show new British comedies and drama but not Channel5 who have a much bigger budget? Even UKTV channels like Dave shows new comedies. I would like to see one comedy on Channel5, Im sure they could do it and if it was good, they would get a lot of kudos and would help improve the channels brand among some people who still dont give the channel a chance.
A few years ago they did Suburban Shootout and Sharon Horgan's Angelo's. Which were both very well recieved. At the end of the day Kudos and praise from the Guardian's Tv section doesn't pay the bills.

Even UKTV channels like Dave shows new comedies.
Red Dwarf..new.
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Old 23-08-2012, 19:03
Charnham
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Suburban Shootout is also note worthy for having a early TV role, for fan girl favourite "Tom Hiddleston" in his pre frost giant days.
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Old 23-08-2012, 19:13
AlexiR
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In 2011 we had

Two series of In It to Win It = 13 shows
One series of Who Dares Wins = 8 shows
Two series of Secret Fortune = 17 shows
Total = 38 shows.

The last lottery branded quiz of 2011 was aired on 8/10/2011

In 2012 we have

One series of Who Dares Wins = 8 shows
One series of In It to Win It = 12 shows
One series of Secret Fortune = 12 shows.
Total = 32 shows

The last lottery branded quiz of 2012 will air 13/10/2012
So about 72% of Saturdays in 2011 had a Lottery branded quiz and this year it'll be about 61%. Presumably though part of that drop (if not all off it) is down to sports coverage (Olympics and football)? Also thanks for the figures.

Why on earth wouldn't they be?
Because they take the same attitude as many of the people in this thread – 'it doesn't matter how people watch as long as they're watching'. And that's not engaging with the issue. Dismissing the fact that half the audience watch days after broadcast as not mattering as long as they watch or that it shouldn't be concerning anyone that increasingly fewer people are watching a flagship broadcast Live+SD isn't engaging with the issue. Its making it a non-issue.
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Old 23-08-2012, 19:17
morph1970
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Because they take the same attitude as many of the people in this thread – 'it doesn't matter how people watch as long as they're watching'. And that's not engaging with the issue. Dismissing the fact that half the audience watch days after broadcast as not mattering as long as they watch or that it shouldn't be concerning anyone that increasingly fewer people are watching a flagship broadcast Live+SD isn't engaging with the issue. Its making it a non-issue.
I don't mean to labour this point, but how do you know what the BBC does or doesn't discuss in meetings?

It makes sense publicly to point to the high total reach figures (that's just good PR), but I'm quite sure that the BBC considers all the different figures (overnights, recordings, iPlayer etc) independently. As you say, they'd be daft not to, and I don't think the BBC is daft.
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Old 23-08-2012, 19:26
T Penery
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So about 72% of Saturdays in 2011 had a Lottery branded quiz and this year it'll be about 61%. Presumably though part of that drop (if not all off it) is down to sports coverage (Olympics and football)? Also thanks for the figures.
BBC had the following breaks for the following events. They're not all sport.

One Saturday for Six Nations Rugby
One Saturday for Eurovision
One Saturday for The Voice grand final. Although that was a last minute schedule change.
Two Saturdays for Euro 2012
Three Saturdays for London 2012 Olympics
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Old 23-08-2012, 19:53
Dancc
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A few years ago they did Suburban Shootout and Sharon Horgan's Angelo's. Which were both very well recieved. At the end of the day Kudos and praise from the Guardian's Tv section doesn't pay the bills.
And this is where I disagree with C4's Jay Hunt, who says she couldn't have done stuff like Black Mirror if Big Brother was still around. I'm not suggesting for a moment it was wrong for them to let go of Big Brother, but Black Mirror doesn't pay the bills either. It might be a (rare) example of how C4 has been more confident creatively since the brand departed, but at the end of the day they lost a mass appeal show and their first thought was not "how can we serve this audience in a different way?" but rather "how can we improve the image of the brand?" and so in has come some stuff to excite TV critics but the key problem of getting the viewing figures back on track has not been addressed. Not to be too unkind to the channel, I do recognise they have had their fair share of ratings success this year, but some of it's been fleeting through one-offs and specials, and there isn't really an anchor now for the younger end of their audience to latch onto and that concerns me. E4 has been more dependable here, but the main network has become too complacent. And where they are innovating, poor execution tends to let them down, this current comedy season being a good example.
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Old 23-08-2012, 20:41
C14E
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One thing I dont understand with Channel5, is how can E4 and even now ITV2 be able to show new British comedies and drama but not Channel5 who have a much bigger budget? Even UKTV channels like Dave shows new comedies. I would like to see one comedy on Channel5, Im sure they could do it and if it was good, they would get a lot of kudos and would help improve the channels brand among some people who still dont give the channel a chance.
I think Channel 5 is actually spread quite thin, once you take out Home and Away and Neighbours. So they opt to put out more original content that a digital channel but that means they spend on getting lots of factual commissions rather than on a few showcase drama commissions (like E4).

It's worth remembering that Channel 4 isn't putting out that much drama either these days.

The following is all guesswork...

I think E4 also benefits from having a really clear audience profile. Say E4 produce a drama which gets 800,000 viewers - a good figure for E4. You might have 60% of them (about 500,000) aged 16-34. Channel 5 might produce a drama which gets 2m viewers - a good figure for them. But given different audience profiles, there might only be 15-20% in the 16-34 demo (300,000-400,000).

And E4 can repeat the show more often because they have far fewer slots filled with original content. Plus, if they repeat it for 260,000 viewers at 10pm the next night (a third of the original audience), that's not an awful rating for E4. Whereas if Channel 5 repeated their drama the next night to a third of its original audience - 670,000 viewers, it would be deemed way below par for the slot.

The alternative is ABC1 viewers. But the CPM for 16-34's is somewhat higher than ABC1's. ITV1 can afford to produce old skewing drama and sell it on ABC1's because they can get a huge volume overall - it's not unreasonable for a new Monday night ITV1 drama to get 6m. That's not likely to happen for Channel 5. And Channel 5 are unlikely to get a higher ABC1 skew than ITV anyway.

It's almost like Channel 5 is too big to have a niche and too small to get the big audiences. Comedy might be a better option - it's usually cheaper. Repeats better than drama. But again, who do they aim it at?
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Old 23-08-2012, 20:43
Brekkie
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One thing I dont understand with Channel5, is how can E4 and even now ITV2 be able to show new British comedies and drama but not Channel5 who have a much bigger budget? Even UKTV channels like Dave shows new comedies. I would like to see one comedy on Channel5, Im sure they could do it and if it was good, they would get a lot of kudos and would help improve the channels brand among some people who still dont give the channel a chance.
That is a good point - and although getting something to stick is the tricky point, C5 only really need to find one defining show in the genre just to tick that box.

And this is where I disagree with C4's Jay Hunt, who says she couldn't have done stuff like Black Mirror if Big Brother was still around. I'm not suggesting for a moment it was wrong for them to let go of Big Brother, but Black Mirror doesn't pay the bills either. It might be a (rare) example of how C4 has been more confident creatively since the brand departed, but at the end of the day they lost a mass appeal show and their first thought was not "how can we serve this audience in a different way?" but rather "how can we improve the image of the brand?" and so in has come some stuff to excite TV critics but the key problem of getting the viewing figures back on track has not been addressed. Not to be too unkind to the channel, I do recognise they have had their fair share of ratings success this year, but some of it's been fleeting through one-offs and specials, and there isn't really an anchor now for the younger end of their audience to latch onto and that concerns me. E4 has been more dependable here, but the main network has become too complacent. And where they are innovating, poor execution tends to let them down, this current comedy season being a good example.
Absolutely agree. It's also very short term innovation - C4 seems to schedule from week to week now and has done nothing to find those anchor shows long term in the 2-3 years since axing Big Brother. We've all said it before but it really is quite simple - drama at 10pm, comedy on Fridays and establishing what kind of factual shows people can expect to find at 8pm and 9pm each night rather than just throwing them anywhere.
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Old 23-08-2012, 20:55
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The thing with Channel 4 is that they overexpose shows too. I'm not talking Big Brother here because they got 10 years out of it, nor am I talking about Deal or No Deal because they've got 7 years out of it, a super amount for a daytime show.

I'm talking about Embarrassing Bodies and Million Pound Drop - the latter should have been a returnable hit with 2m+ but C4 exposed it way too quickly.
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Old 23-08-2012, 20:57
jake lyle
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And this is where I disagree with C4's Jay Hunt, who says she couldn't have done stuff like Black Mirror if Big Brother was still around.
Her predecessor Kevin Lygo used to say the exact opposite. It was because of the success of Big Brother they could afford to make things like Green Wing, Omagh etc. Which was true.

I have defended Jay in the past (I dont think her record at BBC One is as bad as some on here say it was, she commissioned Mrs Brown Boys, Sherlock, Luther and primetime Countryfile).

But she spoke a load of drivel and spin today. When challenged on all on the entertainment flops they've had this year(home for the Holidays, the Mad Bad Ad show, Bank Job).
She started spinning about the "compelling", "innovating" and "overwhelming success" of Million Pound Drop.
MPD is nearly 2 and half years old, wasn't commissioned by her and is hardly a huge success.

She would have won some credit if she just admitted that they were having problems launching new entertainment shows and had been over using MPD because of this.
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Old 23-08-2012, 21:08
KennyT
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Any ratings for "The revolution will be televised" last night (10pm BBC3)?

K
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Old 23-08-2012, 21:09
C14E
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The thing with Channel 4 is that they overexpose shows too. I'm not talking Big Brother here because they got 10 years out of it, nor am I talking about Deal or No Deal because they've got 7 years out of it, a super amount for a daytime show.

I'm talking about Embarrassing Bodies and Million Pound Drop - the latter should have been a returnable hit with 2m+ but C4 exposed it way too quickly.
I think this might be one of the occasions where ratings and money diverge a bit . Million Pound Drop could be a 10x60' series getting 2m a night.

But Endemol will make more out of it at lower ratings if they can sell more hours. And, in the absence of other things to show on Fridays or Saturdays, Channel 4 also end up being better off even if MPD is rating lower than it might if they did fewer hours.

I agree with the idea that MPD would be on less if Channel 4 had found some new hits for those slots.
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Old 23-08-2012, 21:58
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In a way though MPD is actually preventing C4 establishing new shows for Friday night in particular than Big Brother was. In reality Big Brother only generally aired in January and the summer - and outside of that C4 was packed with other shows both at 10pm and on Freiday nights - but since they dropped it C4's schedule has been a mess all year round.
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Old 23-08-2012, 22:02
mlt11
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Udinese v Braga - ITV4 on Tues

Newcastle v Atromitos - ITV4 on Thurs

So appears ITV allowed to switch CL to ITV4 without any need to "swap" an EL to ITV1.
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Old 23-08-2012, 22:26
Brekkie
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Udinese v Braga - ITV4 on Tues

Newcastle v Atromitos - ITV4 on Thurs

So appears ITV allowed to switch CL to ITV4 without any need to "swap" an EL to ITV1.
I think they showed an all foreign qualifier on ITV4 last year too (after disastrous ratings the year before). The Europa League has nothing to do with it - the contracts are completely separate, and I doubt UEFA have anything to do with it - it's more about the advertisers.
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Old 23-08-2012, 22:48
Fudd
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I think they showed an all foreign qualifier on ITV4 last year too (after disastrous ratings the year before). The Europa League has nothing to do with it - the contracts are completely separate, and I doubt UEFA have anything to do with it - it's more about the advertisers.
I'm surprised they didn't throw Helsingborgs v Celtic onto ITV4 and put Hearts v Liverpool on ITV1. I wouldn't be surprised if tonight's match beats Tuesday's ratings even though it was on a 'lesser' channel.
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Old 23-08-2012, 23:11
D.M.N.
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Provisional BBC1 schedule for Saturday 8th September:

17:20 - F1: Italian Grand Prix Qualifying Highlights
18:35 - Total Wipeout
19:35 - Doctor Who
20:20 - Lottery
21:10 - Last Night at the Proms

If ITV want to keep The X Factor away from Doctor Who, then it looks like a 20:20 start for The X Factor...
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Old 23-08-2012, 23:17
Charnham
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BBC is giving Doctor Who some really good slots, unless the weather gets all hot again, there will not be much excuse for average ratings that series.
Spoiler
all good stuff that should draw viewers.
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Old 23-08-2012, 23:17
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Her predecessor Kevin Lygo used to say the exact opposite. It was because of the success of Big Brother they could afford to make things like Green Wing, Omagh etc. Which was true.

I have defended Jay in the past (I dont think her record at BBC One is as bad as some on here say it was, she commissioned Mrs Brown Boys, Sherlock, Luther and primetime Countryfile).

But she spoke a load of drivel and spin today. When challenged on all on the entertainment flops they've had this year(home for the Holidays, the Mad Bad Ad show, Bank Job).
She started spinning about the "compelling", "innovating" and "overwhelming success" of Million Pound Drop.
MPD is nearly 2 and half years old, wasn't commissioned by her and is hardly a huge success.

She would have won some credit if she just admitted that they were having problems launching new entertainment shows and had been over using MPD because of this.
Have to agree about her performance today, it was quite frankly embarrassing.

C4 has all the foundations to become a very good, creative and innovative channel but it's constantly dogged by overexposing hits and terrible, terrible scheduling.
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Old 23-08-2012, 23:18
Fudd
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Provisional BBC1 schedule for Saturday 8th September:

17:20 - F1: Italian Grand Prix Qualifying Highlights
18:35 - Total Wipeout
19:35 - Doctor Who
20:20 - Lottery
21:10 - Last Night at the Proms

If ITV want to keep The X Factor away from Doctor Who, then it looks like a 20:20 start for The X Factor...
They'll probably see how each show performs this week and then make a decision. I'm not surprised Doctor Who is edging later and later in the schedule - ITV1 has shown a sign of weakness by moving The X Factor away from Doctor Who already.

Is Strictly's launch show on the 15th? I wonder if BBC One will go for something like this:

5.45 Total Wipeout
6.45 Strictly Come Dancing
7.45 Doctor Who
8.30 National Lottery
9.20 Casualty

Therefore pressurising ITV1 to push The X Factor even later.
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Old 23-08-2012, 23:21
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The problem Ch4 has is that for one reason or another - a lot of its top management have done pretty poor jobs in the other jobs they held. There not the best team in the world.

E4 is a strong channel, with a loyal base - New Girl does well there but not on Ch4 for example.

Meanwhile Ch4 have failed to really...do anything 'new' for a good few years now. Their losing their touch and their edge.

MPD just doesn't rate that well; there are some production reasons for this - but overall its not great.


The thing is though its not losing BB, its that they've not replaced it. Seriously, when was the last time we came on here and saw a new programme (not a pilot, proper 'launch') of a show on Ch4 that was not factual based?

Factual's fine, but we've seen with Gypsy's that its 'flavour of the month' and has little relevance after viewers become more aware of what the show is about.
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Old 23-08-2012, 23:31
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Anyone have them?
A please might have helped.
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Old 23-08-2012, 23:42
RobbieSykes123
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They'll probably see how each show performs this week and then make a decision. I'm not surprised Doctor Who is edging later and later in the schedule - ITV1 has shown a sign of weakness by moving The X Factor away from Doctor Who already.

Is Strictly's launch show on the 15th? I wonder if BBC One will go for something like this:

5.45 Total Wipeout
6.45 Strictly Come Dancing
7.45 Doctor Who
8.30 National Lottery
9.20 Casualty

Therefore pressurising ITV1 to push The X Factor even later.
I read today that not only is Victoria Pendleton pretty much signed up for SCD, but (astonishingly!) they look to have Sir Steve Redgrave coming on board too. That would be a major coup, as I can't believe he would even consider doing Strictly.

Oh, and Jerry Hall too, no less!
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Old 23-08-2012, 23:46
Fudd
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I read today that not only is Victoria Pendleton pretty much signed up for SCD, but (astonishingly!) they look to have Sir Steve Redgrave coming on board too. That would be a major coup, as I can't believe he would even consider doing Strictly.

Oh, and Jerry Hall too, no less!
If that's the case they may switch Doctor Who and Strictly around and really heighten the pressure on The X Factor. BBC One are calling the shots on this one - all ITV can hope for is to stir up some press pressure but I have the feeling the tabloids aren't as avidly supportive of The X Factor as they once were.
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Old 23-08-2012, 23:51
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I see the Daily Mail is reporting that Bottom returns for a new 6 part series on BBC2 next year. Interesting if true (and it's any good). The Mail says it used to get 4m a week in the 90s, but I think it was nearer 6m - BBC2's top rated show at the time.
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