[carnivalist]

For the reasons I've given here

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showp...18&postcount=1

and here,

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showp...62&postcount=1

I'm considering cancellling my upgrade and leaving Orange. I'm attracted by the unlimited internet offer of 3. (Unfortunately, T-mobile/Orange have reception issues in one of the places I frequent.)

There are a number of concerns I have though.

- the appalling reputation of 3 in the past is well-known. However is this still generally the case? Is their customer service and call reception still frustrating? I personaly have found the customer service of Orange to be good, although I'm a little alarmed at the recent trend of encountering the phenomenon of the dreaded Indian call centre, with operators apparently reading from liner cards with no more inside knowledge than on the company's public website. On top of that is the somewhat naughty misrepresentation from the Retentions assistant who gave my upgrade offer. In the face of my strong reluctance to get another handset with Orange crapware, he assured me that the S3 could switch between Orange and Generic firmware ("my girlfriend does it"). This turns out to untrue - I believe you can avoid the firmware by putting the phone into something called "Safe Mode", but this disables all the smartphone functionality, which wasn't mentioned.

- With the 3 unlimited internet/calls deal are there any "nuclear submarine" charges that are likely to blow the unwary out of the water, or is it the case that it's reasonably easy to stick to the headline contract price?

- is 3 ending insurance provision really that much of an issue? I've always sworn by the realtively cheap Orange Care, but I came across an article on the Money Saving Expert site which appears to claim that independent providers do almost as good a job. As far as I can tell the only difference is that independent providers take longer to replace the handset. This isn't an issue for me as I have spare phones and have no problen using them for a few days.

I have considered going with O2 or Vodafone on a worse deal - I know they have good reception in the areas that are problematical for me and I understand that O2's Customer Service is decent. For one thing I believe they aren't moving to Indian Call Centres. Of course this would allow me to get a deal through the Carphone Warehouse, which would mean a generic handset.

My hope is that if I did move I would eventually build up a loyalty/retention discount with a new company. I have heard that O2 and Vodafone are clamping down on retention deals, which is something I would have to consider. I'm not sure if 3 offer retention deals, or whether it would be likely to offer them on the unlimited data/internet deal.

Finally is the daunting prospect of leaving the operator I've been with for nine years for a leap int the unknown.

In short, what would you do in my position?

[steviedab]

I'm with 3 only because of the One Plan offer with tethering - I use around 5GB a month on average as I watch a lot of catch up shows while commuting to work and back etc. Also my broadband at home is sometimes slow so i tether to watch netflix and stuff. No problems at all with 3, I have surprisingly found their customer service fine even you speak to a foreign person called David or Jackie lol. But I have found them quite competent and they seem to love us as they give you free bolt ons like 2000 minutes landline calls on top of the One Plan and an international pack worth 15 quid which i have no use of but handy I suppose.

Signal wise much better than Vodafone and O2 who i used to be previous customers of. Before switching i got a PAYG sim to test out the signal and 3G coverage before making the full switch over commitment for a week or so. I was impressed with the better quality than the other networks provided which made me change, plus three seem to be cheaper etc...

[jay sean]

Been with 3 since may, Im one the rolling contract for £15 with unlimited internet on my phone,
was expecting poor signal/service, but as above both have been good.
Was with vodafone since 1997, and they could not match what I was going to get with 3.

[carnivalist]

Do 3 put crapware on their phones and if so is there any issue in reflashing it? I imagine it technically voids the warranty, but I've heard people say they've never had an issue returning flashed handsets to Orange when they've had to.

Thanks for the replies.

[steviedab]

I got an SG3 with three. When you boot - it appears with the 3 logo then Samsung logo appears. I heard flashing voids the manufactures warranty - not sure returning the handset flashed will make a difference as Three will probably lock the boot loader again. Not sure on this TBH, I haven't flashed mine as I see no need for it only when switching the phone on I don't want to see the Three logo lol. When you open your browser it defaults to the Three homepage with links to watch tv shows and stuff, but you can change this default homepage to whatever suits you. Google Play - there is a little embedded section with Three Likes - but thats all I've seen for Three. Pretty minimal.

[jabbamk1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivalist

- the appalling reputation of 3 in the past is well-known. However is this still generally the case? Is their customer service and call reception still frustrating? I personaly have found the customer service of Orange to be good, although I'm a little alarmed at the recent trend of encountering the phenomenon of the dreaded Indian call centre, with operators apparently reading from liner cards with no more inside knowledge than on the company's public website. On top of that is the somewhat naughty misrepresentation from the Retentions assistant who gave my upgrade offer. In the face of my strong reluctance to get another handset with Orange crapware, he assured me that the S3 could switch between Orange and Generic firmware ("my girlfriend does it"). This turns out to untrue - I believe you can avoid the firmware by putting the phone into something called "Safe Mode", but this disables all the smartphone functionality, which wasn't mentioned.

3 Customer service hasn't been that good in the past but i can honestly say it's got better. They are much quicker at dealing with general queries. However if you have a huge issue they can be slow and just not helpful. But to be honest it does depend on who you get through to. And yep, still based in india.

Quote:

- With the 3 unlimited internet/calls deal are there any "nuclear submarine" charges that are likely to blow the unwary out of the water, or is it the case that it's reasonably easy to stick to the headline contract price?

It's easy to stick to the headline price, everything is included in the plan so the only thing you'll be charged for is premium numbers (0845), premium texts to comps etc... and also for any international calls. So same as on Orange tbh.

Quote:

- is 3 ending insurance provision really that much of an issue? I've always sworn by the realtively cheap Orange Care, but I came across an article on the Money Saving Expert site which appears to claim that independent providers do almost as good a job. As far as I can tell the only difference is that independent providers take longer to replace the handset. This isn't an issue for me as I have spare phones and have no problen using them for a few days.

Orange Care is great. Even though Three don't do insurance you can still get it via third parties or your bank. And yes. they will take longer than orange care.

Quote:

I have considered going with O2 or Vodafone on a worse deal - I know they have good reception in the areas that are problematical for me and I understand that O2's Customer Service is decent. For one thing I believe they aren't moving to Indian Call Centres. Of course this would allow me to get a deal through the Carphone Warehouse, which would mean a generic handset.

O2 customer service is rated very highly, Vodafone not so much, so they are more expensive than O2 as well so if you're looking for a good company i would rule out vodafone because of the high prices and terrible customer service. O2 do a good deal on their £36pm plan (if thats not too out of your budget)

Quote:

My hope is that if I did move I would eventually build up a loyalty/retention discount with a new company. I have heard that O2 and Vodafone are clamping down on retention deals, which is something I would have to consider. I'm not sure if 3 offer retention deals, or whether it would be likely to offer them on the unlimited data/internet deal.

Even Three are doing this now, O2 don't offer much in terms of retention, Three don't offer much either. They still do retention deals. But there not exactly unlimited everything for £10 (if you know what i mean) They'll offer you some discounts above new customers. Plus Three have a huge advantage with AYCE which is great.

Quote:

Finally is the daunting prospect of leaving the operator I've been with for nine years for a leap int the unknown.

In short, what would you do in my position?

It can be hard leaving an operator as you're not sure what will happen, it could go horribly wrong or be the best decision ever. You mentioned above that you have a few spare phones, buy an o2 pay as you go sim and a three pay as you go sim and use them in the areas where you get no signal/home/strong signal areas and compare them to see which one is the best.

Also go into a Three store and an O2 store and ask them to check the signal on their 'Internal system checker'. Every network has these and they are much more indepth than the website coverage checker as it shows you where your local masts are and the signal you are due to get in your area.

3 are doing the best deal for £31pm at the moment and if you are to get a phone with them i would recommend the One Plan which you can buy online with cashback. O2 do a similar deal but without the unlimited data for £36pm. Three are much better for data than O2 though. So if you plan on using data everywhere Three will be a good choice.

You can keep your number easily. Orange are offering a good deal. But no idea why you have to take a dongle. If you can get rid of that and if 1.5GB and 800 mins is enough then you should consider staying. If Three and O2 have better signal/deals in the area then go with them.

3 Put their own firmware on phones but it is not as bad as orange. Unlike orange they don't put every single app from the app store on and they don't physically brand them with the orange logo on the back. Three have a few apps including their own app for checking mins/text/data you have left, and they have a 3 logo on boot.

As with any network flashing the phone will invalidate warranty. As to whether the network will care i really do not know.

[Richard_T]

I had been with O2 since they were called Cellnet ( before the BT cellnet days ) and then moved to Three, O2 didnt offer any retention deal at all, just the pac number and that was that, after a week i was with Three.

[carnivalist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabbamk1

3 Customer service hasn't been that good in the past but i can honestly say it's got better. They are much quicker at dealing with general queries. However if you have a huge issue they can be slow and just not helpful. But to be honest it does depend on who you get through to. And yep, still based in india.


It's easy to stick to the headline price, everything is included in the plan so the only thing you'll be charged for is premium numbers (0845), premium texts to comps etc... and also for any international calls. So same as on Orange tbh.


Orange Care is great. Even though Three don't do insurance you can still get it via third parties or your bank. And yes. they will take longer than orange care.



O2 customer service is rated very highly, Vodafone not so much, so they are more expensive than O2 as well so if you're looking for a good company i would rule out vodafone because of the high prices and terrible customer service. O2 do a good deal on their £36pm plan (if thats not too out of your budget)



Even Three are doing this now, O2 don't offer much in terms of retention, Three don't offer much either. They still do retention deals. But there not exactly unlimited everything for £10 (if you know what i mean) They'll offer you some discounts above new customers. Plus Three have a huge advantage with AYCE which is great.



It can be hard leaving an operator as you're not sure what will happen, it could go horribly wrong or be the best decision ever. You mentioned above that you have a few spare phones, buy an o2 pay as you go sim and a three pay as you go sim and use them in the areas where you get no signal/home/strong signal areas and compare them to see which one is the best.

Also go into a Three store and an O2 store and ask them to check the signal on their 'Internal system checker'. Every network has these and they are much more indepth than the website coverage checker as it shows you where your local masts are and the signal you are due to get in your area.

3 are doing the best deal for £31pm at the moment and if you are to get a phone with them i would recommend the One Plan which you can buy online with cashback. O2 do a similar deal but without the unlimited data for £36pm. Three are much better for data than O2 though. So if you plan on using data everywhere Three will be a good choice.

You can keep your number easily. Orange are offering a good deal. But no idea why you have to take a dongle. If you can get rid of that and if 1.5GB and 800 mins is enough then you should consider staying. If Three and O2 have better signal/deals in the area then go with them.

3 Put their own firmware on phones but it is not as bad as orange. Unlike orange they don't put every single app from the app store on and they don't physically brand them with the orange logo on the back. Three have a few apps including their own app for checking mins/text/data you have left, and they have a 3 logo on boot.

As with any network flashing the phone will invalidate warranty. As to whether the network will care i really do not know.

Great reply among a series of good ones - thanks.

What is AYCE BTW?

I took the dongle partly because of the 2GB Data for £2.50 instead of £10 and partly because it means that if I give it up at the end of the 18-month contract, my phone contract will be reduced to £21 as they will reduce my bill by £7.50, which is the discount I get for the dongle . It's a bit bizarre I know.

To be honest, on reflection I don't really lug my laptop around much - I only really use it on the move for the three hour train journey between Exeter and London. I would assume the tethering 3 offer is more or less identical to having a dongle - I suppose the only inconvenience is not being able to use our phone, although I'm not up with mobile data technology, so it might not work like this.

[jabbamk1]

Ayce stands for all you can eat. Its threes way of advertising unlimited data.

And yep, tethering would work like a dongle, but wirelessly. So you'd connect your laptop to the phone and use the phones unlimited internet connection. You can still make and recieve calls/texts whilst tethering. In ffact you can still use the internet on your phone. I regularly take the train line between paddington and reading and get really good signal along the line.

But like I said, get a payg sim and try it for a couple of days just to make sure the signal is good. Its a 2 year contract so its good to know what you're getting into I'f you decide to go with three

Btw I'm a bit confused a about your orange deal. Do you pay £10 at the moment? Then get £7.50 off your mobile bill?

[carnivalist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabbamk1

... I regularly take the train line between paddington and reading and get really good signal along the line...

I'm assuming you either live or work in London? Do you get good signal in most parts of London? Have you been to the North Kensington/Kensal/Ladbroke Grove area and had any signal problems? I would have thought London would be pretty good for all networks, but you never know.

Quote:

But like I said, get a payg sim and try it for a couple of days just to make sure the signal is good...

There's a slight problem with this in that my old phones are locked to Orange. I'm only in Exeter for a few days this time, but I really need to know wht 3's indoor signal is like in the house I stay in here before I go back. It seems the only mobile phone shop that offers unlocking has closed down, so I don't think I could get it unlocked in time. I've even had a few nonplussed looks in London when I've enquired about unlocking my SE P800 and P910. I do have an unused TyTn II - Iloathed the combination of Windows 7 and Orange crapware, as well as the appalling video camera, so when it broke I left the replacement untouched.

Quote:

Btw I'm a bit confused a about your orange deal. Do you pay £10 at the moment? Then get £7.50 off your mobile bill?

No, I pay £2.50 instead of the £10.00 rental cost of the 2MB dongle. Therefore £7.50 is the discount. The Retentions assistant told me that if I give up the dongle after the 18 month contract, the £7.50 discount will continue to be applied to the contract and the line rental for the remaining 6 months of the phone contract (24 month phone - 18 month dongle = 6 months) will be reduced from the current £28.50 (i.e £26 phone + £2,50 dongle) to £21.

It seems a strange way of doing things, but that's what he said. However given that he told me the S3 could switch between branded and generic phoneware, maybe I should e-mail Orange to confirm.

[carnivalist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by steviedab

..3 seem to love us as they give you free bolt ons like 2000 minutes landline calls on top of the One Plan and an international pack worth 15 quid which i have no use of but handy I suppose...

Do you mean they gave you this as a retention deal? If so is this because you regularly go over your contract sum? How much is your average spend?

[carnivalist]

It just struck me. If the One Plan is available over the phone or the web, wouldn't it be the case that the distance selling regulations apply and I'd get 14 days to try the phone out? That would obviate the need for a PAYG Sim and faffing around getting my ancient SE P910 unlocked.

I note the cashback option mentioned online. How do you do this? I tried one provider over a small purchase a while ago and it wasn't apparent how or when I'd get the money. Does it go into a bank account?

[carnivalist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay sean

Been with 3 since may, Im one the rolling contract for £15 with unlimited internet on my phone,
was expecting poor signal/service, but as above both have been good...

In which areas?

[carnivalist]

BTW can anyone tell me the pros and cons of having the 3 Gb BT openzone Orange are offering compared with 3's unlimited internet? If you have unlimited internet and the signal is generally OK, I would have assumed BT Openzone would be largely redundant, or am I wrong?

[carnivalist]

Something else just occured to me. Although the S3 has a data usage meter and a cut-off system, this doesn't appear to distinguish between BT openzone and free-wifi (i.e at home). Therefore it would seem to be impossible to know if you've gone over your Openzone limit until you get a nasty bill.

[Daveoc64]

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivalist

wouldn't it be the case that the distance selling regulations apply and I'd get 14 days to try the phone out?

The distance selling regulations:

a) Provide you with 7 days, not 14 to cancel a contract

b) Wouldn't apply in this case as your (statutory) right to return the product ends as soon as you start using the service.

[Richard_T]

For the openzone stuff you need to be near or within range of a wifi hotspot, for unlimitied internet( ie over 3G) you just need a phone signal.
If you are in a fixed location and not moving, and your within range of a wifi hotspot then it may be worth looking at.
if your using your mobile phone while out an about, and you are mobile then data over 3G is the way to go.

There are also plenty of legitiamte free to use as much as you want wifi hotspots out there in the places where you may be in a fixed location for a while which further undermines any benefit of bundled wifi minutes/data that may be added to a phone contract.

As far as i see it, bundled wifi hotspot limits are just a way to get cuctomers into acepting a contract with restricited data alowances, and as such should be avoided.


If you are thinking of moving to another operator i would strongly suggest that you try different operators pay as you go offers for a period of time, doing this will mean that you will be able see if they have a good coverage in the places where you go, and check data coverage before you get your pac code and move operator/sign up to a long contract.

[carnivalist]

I've established that 3 is no good as far as reception in the Exe Valley goes, so that option is off the agenda. I'm beginning to realise that I would need a pretty good data allowance not to feel annoyingly restricted in my use of a killer phablet like the S3, so that is playing on my mind as well.

On reflection I doubt whether either the 2 GB dongle or the 3 GB BT Openzone Orange are offering are going to be that much of a benefit - I doubt I would ever use the dongle if I had a smartphone and as Richard_T said, many places with BT openzone seem to have a free wireless point nearby in some store or other anyway. It's a shame Orange didn't offer me an extra 2Gb data instead of a 2Gb dongle as that might have swayed me. I can't really understand what the difference is to them.

The only other option would be T-mobile, but I'm not sure I want to take the leap even at the price they're offering and be tied into 24 months, with guaranteed iffy reception when I'm in Exeter. The pictures of the just-about-acceptable OrangeT-mobile reception on the SE P910 here were taken in the best locations in the house, but there are a number of others where there is no reception. O2 reception is perfect.

Anyway, although I love the S3, I'm slowly thinking I may forget about it for a while, ditch both Orange and the 24 month contract business for the time being and go the cheapo route with a monthly sim on a provider where I can get reception in the areas I frequent, while I see how the land lies in the fullness of time. I've never had a 24 month contract before. In fact I've only had one 18-month contract in the nine years I've been with Orange. I realise they are now standard and many people seem to have got used to them, but It seems to me that an awful lot can change in 24 months - I would never dream of renewing my Virgin Media contract for 24 months for example.

Given the doubling in contract length I'm used to, I'm not as willing to go with something I'm not 100% happy with. For example, what if a non-orange provider addressed some of my concerns about reception et al and offered a decent deal in a year's time, or if something about Orange changed - say the reception got even worse in Exeter, or I needed to move somewhere with poor or non-existent reception? I'd be b*ggered, surely? With a year's contract it's worth the risk, but being locked in for two years is a quantum leap. I'm even thinking of saving the excess on the cheapest sim-only monthly I can find and buying sim free in a year if no deal comes up.

Sometimes there's too much choice - or should I say too many choices with drawbacks.

Oh well, I guess the next few days will be full of prevaricating!

[jabbamk1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivalist

I've established that 3 is no good as far as reception in the Exe Valley goes, so that option is off the agenda. I'm beginning to realise that I would need a pretty good data allowance not to feel annoyingly restricted in my use of a killer phablet like the S3, so that is playing on my mind as well.

On reflection I doubt whether either the 2 GB dongle or the 3 GB BT Openzone Orange are offering are going to be that much of a benefit - I doubt I would ever use the dongle if I had a smartphone and as Richard_T said, many places with BT openzone seem to have a free wireless point nearby in some store or other anyway. It's a shame Orange didn't offer me an extra 2Gb data instead of a 2Gb dongle as that might have swayed me. I can't really understand what the difference is to them.

The only other option would be T-mobile, but I'm not sure I want to take the leap even at the price they're offering and be tied into 24 months, with guaranteed iffy reception when I'm in Exeter. The pictures of the just-about-acceptable OrangeT-mobile reception on the SE P910 here were taken in the best locations in the house, but there are a number of others where there is no reception. O2 reception is perfect.

Anyway, although I love the S3, I'm slowly thinking I may forget about it for a while, ditch both Orange and the 24 month contract business for the time being and go the cheapo route with a monthly sim on a provider where I can get reception in the areas I frequent, while I see how the land lies in the fullness of time. I've never had a 24 month contract before. In fact I've only had one 18-month contract in the nine years I've been with Orange. I realise they are now standard and many people seem to have got used to them, but It seems to me that an awful lot can change in 24 months - I would never dream of renewing my Virgin Media contract for 24 months for example.

Given the doubling in contract length I'm used to, I'm not as willing to go with something I'm not 100% happy with. For example, what if a non-orange provider addressed some of my concerns about reception et al and offered a decent deal in a year's time, or if something about Orange changed - say the reception got even worse in Exeter, or I needed to move somewhere with poor or non-existent reception? I'd be b*ggered, surely? With a year's contract it's worth the risk, but being locked in for two years is a quantum leap. I'm even thinking of saving the excess on the cheapest sim-only monthly I can find and buying sim free in a year if no deal comes up.

Sometimes there's too much choice - or should I say too many choices with drawbacks.

Oh well, I guess the next few days will be full of prevaricating!

What i would do, is return the upgrade and revert back to your old tariff, get your old phone unlocked (i'm assuming you have a 3G phone?) and then buy a 3 and O2 sim card. Three are the best for data like i said earlier, even on sim only plans. O2 sim only is unfortunately where they struggle as you have to spend at least £32pm just to get 750mb on a sim only.

My suggestion would be to order a giff gaff sim for the pay as you go test with the £10 credit as this uses the o2 network but gives you unlimited data and texts. (no tethering) Use Three's £15 add on for their unlimited pay as you go offer.

Very quickly-

How much data do you really use? Is it more so on your laptop than the phone? What is your monthly budget? Is Orange all that bad in those locations?

What i've said above will give you time to try out both networks for yourself. You can even give vodafone a go but their signal will be similar to O2. Plus they're the most expensive at the moment.

[Richard_T]

You should get a simalar coverage on Orange, T mobile and Three, likewise with Vodafone and O2, three are good value and for my purposes give good reception, however the one thing that causes reception problems with three is that they use 2100mhz which doesnt pentrate buildings as well ( especaily buildings with thick walls ) where as other networks have access to 900mhz and 1800mhz spectrum.

As before, try the networks first, if you dotn want to be tied to a long contract then there is ( yet) another option, and that is to get a sim only deal and sort out your own hardware.
You should be able to find good deals for £15 per month, and a good spec phoone for £250 -£300 this will work out at £360 for 24 months for the sim/call package and £250 for the hardware ( asuming you change/update after 24 moths) which works out at £25.40 per month, then its just a case of matching those prices to what the networks offer

[ramzez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabbamk1

What i've said above will give you time to try out both networks for yourself. You can even give vodafone a go but their signal will be similar to O2. Plus they're the most expensive at the moment.

Agree, o2 is the most expensive at the moment, i am staying with vodafone at the moment. but i would wait till the middle of september, since when iphone 5 will be announced they may be changes like EE launching LTE , perhaps it would be worse going there.... but who knows.

[carnivalist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramzez

Agree, o2 is the most expensive at the moment, i am staying with vodafone at the moment. but i would wait till the middle of september, since when iphone 5 will be announced they may be changes like EE launching LTE , perhaps it would be worse going there.... but who knows.

Do you mean LTE would make EE worse? In what way?