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#1001 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 507
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Quote:
I don't know how good or bad Tivo Version 1 was but I guess the design was to allow you to plug your original cable/satellite box into it and let it control the recordings kind of like a VCR but with an EPG additional search/suggestion features.
Having a look around the internet it appears that Tivo was one the first HDD based PVRs on the market and this precedes Sky+ by nearly three years. In this time period I'm sure Sky would have looked at what Tivo did and how they improve on it. One of the obvious thing was to put everything in one box and that appealed to consumers, That combined with the marketing/PR powerhouse that is Sky it gained market share very quickly. As it was only available for about 6 months before Sky+ it never stood a chance. I wouldn't say it was designed to connect another box - it was shortcoming that apart from Freeview you had to use a separate box which meant that while recording a sat or cable channel you couldn't watch another one which , as Sky were telling us all the time back then , was the number one query from subscribers. Tivo had its uses for those with cable or freeview but for satellite it was a non starter and with Sky marketing it , clearly it was sat viewers who the PVR's were aimed at |
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#1002 |
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Guest
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,747
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We understand the point that you are making, Sirius, but if we get something extra and we don't see a price increase to cover it, as far as we are concerned, it's free.
They are not necessarily taking a hit on their profits. Perhaps they are making some cost savings and using that, or economies of scale with Liberty taking over. It doesn't matter really, we are getting more for the same. Rejoice! Ask BB only customers who they think are paying. |
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#1003 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Knaresborough, North Yorks
Posts: 23,889
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I won't bother arguing about most of your comments because Tivo Version 1 failed - and it failed because it was crap. Why would Sky continue to flog Tivo to its subscribers when Sky+ was available and superior in every way.
So not "superior in *every* way" at all then! I also seem to recall that the first Sky+ suffered from failing series links if the programme missed a week, or between series. Tivo didn't. Quote:
The fact you need to split hairs shows what a primitive pile of junk it was.
Comparing basic features is hardly "splitting hairs".I think you're grabbing at straws myself ![]() Quote:
Yes - you could record something and watch a recording at the same time - hardly hi tech for anything except Tivo V1.
Sky+ could only manage twice that. "hardly hi tech".Quote:
But you know full well that what I was referring to was its inability to record one channel while watching another live thus avoiding clashes which was the number one requirement of PVR's at the time.
I had Tivo for ten years and very, very rarely missed anything thanks to +1 channels and same-week repeats.Quote:
It recorded analogue output not the raw digital stream.
Which is why it worked with any broadcast platform.Quote:
No Dolby 5.1
Not absolutely essential.Quote:
I know you got on with it.
Me, my entire family and thousands of other people.Quote:
You're clearly easily pleased but some people who's requirements were a bit more sophisticated needed a PVR to do one basic thing which was to get round clashes.
Which the Tivo did perfectly well thanks to time-shift and same-week repeats.Quote:
Exactly what did you do if there were 2 programmes on at the same time you wanted to record.
Record the one that wasn't repeated first.And what did Sky+ users do if there happened to be 3 programmes on at the same time? Quote:
In fact Tivo's limitations meant that if you insisted on not watching anything live that you miss a lot of programmes.
There are a lot of programmes I should probably watch instead of all the US stuff, but I certainly have never missed anything I wanted to watch.Quote:
And you can't use the backup of +1 channels and numerous repeats because they didn't exist at the time
Except, of course, that they did. How else do you think I managed for ten years Quote:
Having a look around the internet it appears that Tivo was one the first HDD based PVRs on the market and this precedes Sky+ by nearly three years. In this time period I'm sure Sky would have looked at what Tivo did and how they improve on it.
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When Sky+ came out you could only record one thing at a time for a while.
2 recordings came a bit later but in both cases , just as it does today Sky+ does not cope with recording clashes aswell as Tivo... ![]() Quote:
...but the fact was unimportant in 2001 because although Tivo could do it - the single tuner meant that even with the handicap Sky+ was still ahead most of the time.
Wrong. I coped fine. Though I can see families would have had problems. But they still would today, I supose.Quote:
I wouldn't say it was designed to connect another box ...
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#1004 |
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Guest
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,747
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Tomorrow being a Thursday and all I'll save the cable forum members who read this thread from a few wet dreams tonight by confirming that there's nothing testing on the VM network at the moment.
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#1005 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,981
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That's only a naive position many consumers take. If you don't think it's factored into previous and/or future price rises you are kidding yourself on. Virgin, and it's profit line, are almost certainly not taking the hit for the increased costs of BT Sport.
Ask BB only customers who they think are paying. |
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#1006 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 507
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Quote:
I had Tivo for ten years and very, very rarely missed anything thanks to +1 channels and same-week repeats. Which is why it worked with any broadcast platform. yada yada yada . Just because you were happy with it only shows your low expectations . You're in a fantasy world if you think Sky viewers would have chosen Tivo over Sky+ if Sky had given them the choice And it actually was superior in every way . While its recording clashes operation is not superior to Tivo of today it was compared to Tivo V1 which couldn't even handle the clash of wanting to watch and record 2 channels simultaneously. At least when Sky was only able to record one channel you could still watch another sat channel. I'd be interested to know about any +1 channels that were around in 2001 |
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#1007 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 507
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Quote:
That's only a naive position many consumers take. If you don't think it's factored into previous and/or future price rises you are kidding yourself on. Virgin, and it's profit line, are almost certainly not taking the hit for the increased costs of BT Sport.
Ask BB only customers who they think are paying. Since then there's been the annual increases but there's also been dozens of HD channels all for no extra charge. BT Sport is just the latest . Virgin customers with 20-30 HD channels have been laughing at Sky suckers who've been paying £10 extra a month for years. I know its reduced now but how much have you paid over the years ? The statement that HD is not free with Virgin usually comes from embittered Sky suckers used to paying extra. I admit that the channels are obviously factored in somewhere but the end user payments for XL over the last few years have not shown any signficant increase to reflect anything even close to the extra costs customers of other providers are paying |
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#1008 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between Venus and Mars
Posts: 9,023
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Tomorrow being a Thursday and all I'll save the cable forum members who read this thread from a few wet dreams tonight by confirming that there's nothing testing on the VM network at the moment.
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#1009 |
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Guest
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,747
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Quote:
Alas it's not that simple. It's entirely possible that if VM did not bundle in BT Sport, some of its customers would defect to its competitors or downsize to a lower package. This would result in reduced revenue and additional costs to VM which could outweigh the extra costs of BT Sport. (£1.50pm ESPN v £3.50pm BT Sport). It's a sophisticated balancing act.
Remember, Virgin are getting such a good deal because compared to Sky's user base they are significantly less likely to want to pay extra for a standalone sports channel. |
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#1010 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 100
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What are you doing? Showing off your 'copy and paste' skills? You are just repeating what Media Boy has been posting. Why, particularly after having been so nasty to him on the 'other' forum?
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#1011 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,303
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Tomorrow being a Thursday and all I'll save the cable forum members who read this thread from a few wet dreams tonight by confirming that there's nothing testing on the VM network at the moment.
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The fact that you don't even realise that he's taking the piss speaks volumes...
He even went on CF to say that MB gets all his information from him. |
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#1012 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,981
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Considering Virgin has around 1.8m XL subscribers and the impact of the BTS wholesale deal averages at £4.10 pm (with VAT added) we can safely file that under "unlikely" that the whole cost is absorbed effectively by upgrades to that package.
Remember, Virgin are getting such a good deal because compared to Sky's user base they are significantly less likely to want to pay extra for a standalone sports channel. - XL subscribers downgrading, therefore less revenue for Virgin Media - XL customers moving to other providers thereby reducing revenue and one-off costs in terminating their accounts and retiieving and testing their equipment. - Reduced revenue from the exodus of subscribers elsewhere but fixed costs pretty much remain the same, therefore squeezed profitability and an incentive to try and regain profitability by putting up prices for everyone. As I said, it's a balancing act and VM and Sky spend a lot of time modelling such scenarios and competitors' responses. |
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#1013 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,981
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Quote:
It's alright Sirius, we weren't expecting new channels. But again, Virgin don't test on all parts of the network so you won't ever know for a fact that nothing is testing.
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#1014 |
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Guest
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,747
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It's alright Sirius, we weren't expecting new channels. But again, Virgin don't test on all parts of the network so you won't ever know for a fact...
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#1015 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 100
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I state channels test and they launch imminently. Others state channels are testing and in many cases we are still waiting. The evidence does not support your claim that channels test on parts of the network but not others. I was asked to check for Premier Sports and confirmed it was there. If channels are in one area and not others I would suspect it to be the case for minutes and hours, not days and weeks.
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#1016 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,981
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But again, Virgin don't test on all parts of the network so you won't ever know for a fact that nothing is testing.
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#1017 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 507
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Quote:
Remember, Virgin are getting such a good deal because compared to Sky's user base they are significantly less likely to want to pay extra for a standalone sports channel.
![]() Now theres the assumption that Virgin customers are less likely to pay for a standalone channel. The only reason they would assume that is that Skys customers have been shown to be suckers when it comes to paying extra for things that Virgin offer for free. I'm surprised that Virgin still don't have Atlantic. Sky were clearly delusional thinking the channel would generate new subs or people switching to watch programmes that few were interested in when they were on freeview . The channel is not a draw at all so surely its about time they cut their losses and added a couple of million potential viewers to the paltry ratings for Atlantic while being able to increase the cost of advertising on the channel. Had they started Atlantic back in the days when they could have confined Lost and 24 to the channel then maybe they would have a case but as it stands the channel is barely average |
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#1018 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,981
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Quote:
From calling Virgin users naive for thinking we are getting a genuinely good deal to giving us a reason why we actually are getting a good deal - all within a few posts.
![]() Now theres the assumption that Virgin customers are less likely to pay for a standalone channel. The only reason they would assume that is that Skys customers have been shown to be suckers when it comes to paying extra for things that Virgin offer for free. Quote:
I'm surprised that Virgin still don't have Atlantic.
Sky were clearly delusional thinking the channel would generate new subs or people switching to watch programmes that few were interested in when they were on freeview. The channel is not a draw at all... |
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#1019 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Knaresborough, North Yorks
Posts: 23,889
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Why do you always apologise for Tivo version 1 ? It was shit and you know it.
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You're in a fantasy world if you think Sky viewers would have chosen Tivo over Sky+ if Sky had given them the choice.
![]() You really are a very selfish person, aren't you? Quote:
And it actually was superior in every way.
Apart from only working with Sky, you mean? And not having wishlists. And not having reliable series links (back then.)
Last edited by carl.waring : 07-11-2013 at 22:36. Reason: edited whilst being quoted |
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#1020 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 507
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Seriously? You're telling me what I think?
Yeah. I'm done. Virgin email today about Fox+1 and Lifetime. Is this news ? I don't think I ever go that far down the guide. |
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#1021 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 507
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Quote:
And what about the majority of people who didn't have Sky back then? ![]() Apart from only working with Sky, you mean? And not having wishlists. And not having reliable series links (back then.) You always go on about Wishlists as if they are an important feature. Today with the proliferation of channels the Wishlist is a useful bonus but its hardly a deal breaker which is why Sky couldn't give a toss and have never tried to copy it. In 2001 a Wishlist would also have been a nice bonus but as an alternative to dual tuners , recording raw data , 5,1 recording etc Wishlists were lower on the priorities of a Sky viewer than whaleshit. Sky marketed Tivo to start with so its logical to assume they were aiming it at genuine multi channel homes not people just happy with Freeview and its handful of channels. When Sky+ came out it superceded Tivo because Sky knew that given the choice it was an obvious one. Given that people without Sky would not be interested in Sky+ they wouldn't need to compare Tivo with Sky+ as they didn't have a choice . Sky viewers did . That their Sky+ box could not be connected to any other box was probably lower on the minus points than the lack of wishlists. For non Sky viewers it was a + point because they didn't have Sky and their expectations and requirements were clearly lower than anyone who purchased Tivo V1. Still waiting for that list of +1 channels that were running in 2001. And only you could offer a solution to a problem generated by the inadequacies of Tivo as if that problem was not important when in fact it was the most important feature of Sky+ |
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#1022 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 189
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Asian Channel XCLUSIVE: Virgin Media to add News 18 - should launch on November 14th.
I can now reveal that News 18 should launch on November 14 Virgin Media. Still no confirmed channel number. Asian Channel Thinks: News 18 will be on Virgin Channel 626 or 833. (c) 2013 Asian Channel |
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#1023 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 116,685
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More crap Asian channels just what we need.
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#1024 |
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Guest
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,747
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Quote:
From calling Virgin users naive for thinking we are getting a genuinely good deal to giving us a reason why we actually are getting a good deal - all within a few posts.
![]() I'm simply saying the costs have to come from the customers one way or the other and it's naive to think price rises (of all services and bundles) since Setanta haven't in some way been used to cover the cost. It's naive to think otherwise. It's the last I'm going to say on it because its off-topic. |
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#1025 |
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Guest
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,747
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Quote:
Yes but 'reality' doesn't line up with their ability to trumpet completely falsified information day in day out, so obviously you must be wrong.
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