I provide you with a direct comparison. Still no. But I'm sure you're right, wavey. All of their other cell sites are only three hops away from 8.8.8.8. They just decided to send my data around the houses for a laugh.

I am going to Hull on Sunday - I will have another go there and post my results in this thread.

A T-Mobile traceroute for comparison. First hop is my phone. Excuse the poor latency, I was loading pages at the same time and I have a very ropey 3G signal for data (but it's still the best out of any of the networks).

Hop 12 is LINX, so it takes 11 hops to get out of T-Mobile's network.

Surely there is more to the cell site - antennae, backhaul (yes) and such.

Since O2 don't even know what spectrum they can do LTE on they can hardly be fitting the correct antennas to do it.

Meanwhile (I'm assuming) EE will be able to use their existing GSM1800 antennas for LTE?

Besides, "LTE-ready" may not mean a tick-box on their network management system. My laptop is "3G ready" but I have to buy hardware to use it, it's just that it supports the ability to upgrade it in the future.

How far have they got with these base stations? EE have suggested they've embarked on a massive rollout, but if O2's 3G rollout is anything to go by they've probably only upgraded about 10 cell sites by now.

I must say your steadfast support of O2 no matter what is admirable.

Interestingly I just put the Giffgaff sim in and I can't get to anything except Giffgaff.com, I don't know if it's ran out of credit? and that's what happens when you run out of credit?

However even a traceroute to giffgaff.com just times out even though I can load the web page. Obviously not responding to ICMP however look at those ping times within the O2 network on the 172 LAN addresses!

Tracing route to giffgaff.com [193.41.101.98]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 392 ms 199 ms 199 ms 172.16.192.10
2 1523 ms 419 ms 429 ms 172.16.192.41
3 1076 ms 469 ms 479 ms 172.16.235.185
4 131 ms 139 ms 119 ms 172.16.235.42
5 405 ms 459 ms 459 ms 172.16.199.122
6 548 ms 429 ms 459 ms 172.16.199.121
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.

Certainly very different to 3:

C:\Users\z>tracert 8.8.8.8

Tracing route to google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 83 ms 79 ms 79 ms 172.31.62.65
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 174 ms 169 ms 189 ms 92.40.252.137.threembb.co.uk [92.40.252.137]
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 164 ms 209 ms 149 ms 209.85.240.63
7 188 ms 189 ms 209 ms 209.85.253.196
8 188 ms 189 ms 189 ms 209.85.243.33
9 100 ms 87 ms 89 ms 216.239.49.36
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 97 ms 99 ms 149 ms google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\z>

Just follow the link to the article to find out what has been upgraded since January 2011 and the upgrade contract schedule.

It's not just MBNL who have been investing in future technology across the UK despite what some may suggest!

It doesn't say how many NSN Flexi base stations it has rolled out. It says they've done 1500 sites since 2010, but then they've signed this contract in 2011 so what did they install in 2010?


Maybe one day all of that investment will allow them to join the big boys table.


B-b-b-but some people on here said 3G on 900Mhz was "a bit of a red herring" as if it was irrelevant!

Indeed, I am quite interested to see what the new Voda/O2 JV does not only in terms of 4G coverage, but also 3G.

Though any improvement does depend on O2 sorting out their core network, of course.

Such a mess... that multi bilion pound company should hire some of the folks on digital spy for their network expertise so they can keep their customer satisfaction rating!

It's obviously not sorted out yet with all those hops before it even goes out onto the internet!

My dongle is now flashing green on the giffgaff sim as it's dropped down to not EDGE, but, wait for it.... GPRS speeds!

Now obviously the experience is going to vary from place to place, but it's generally accepted when you stand back and look at O2's 3G that it's lacking considerably, and that before they think about 4G, they should probably at least finishing getting 3G up to the standards of some of the other networks first.

A joke from wavey - never thought I would see the day.

It's a red herring one day and it's a huge capacity benefit the next depending on whether the argument falls in O2's favour or not this week, and the two are interchangeable seemingly with no embarrassment about losing complete credibility.

Not sure what O2 will make of this, but Everything Everywhere are doing a tech event next Tuesday (11th September). No doubt it'll be to do with their plans for 4G.

Sept 11 is also the date that Ofcom gave the go-ahead of EE to start using 4G on 1800Mhz (although it's too early for a big switch on)

A lot of the press have been invited, I think they will announce the brand name for the 4G brand. It may be that the site itself has EE 1800Mhz 4G coverage and some devices for the press to have for test in the venue and maybe to keep for when the switch on happens, as EE want it launched before Christmas.

I think you'll probably be proved right.

I wonder if Orange and T-M will also get 4G bits added to their network(s). Although, that'd defeat the object of launching a third brand, but it'd make it easier for customers already on the 'main' two.

Excellent news, though, if they're not wasting any time at all in getting this up and running.

Why is your ping soo high? surely they have HSPA+ and HSUPA enabled nationwide now.

For a comparison here is mine.

Tracing route to google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.8.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 34 ms 37 ms 30 ms 10.126.241.49
4 41 ms 40 ms 32 ms 10.70.16.221
5 39 ms 38 ms 38 ms 10.70.16.82
6 53 ms 36 ms 37 ms 10.70.17.102
7 41 ms 58 ms 38 ms 149.254.199.162
8 84 ms 44 ms 50 ms 10.126.168.214
9 38 ms 39 ms 40 ms 195.66.224.125
10 68 ms 75 ms 47 ms 209.85.240.63
11 64 ms 50 ms 55 ms 209.85.253.196
12 84 ms 49 ms 52 ms 209.85.240.28
13 75 ms 69 ms 64 ms 216.239.49.36
14 75 ms 78 ms 72 ms 209.85.255.118
15 64 ms 84 ms 56 ms google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]

Certainly not, they know they only have a market lead of 1 year to establish that new brand as synonymous with 4G in people's heads and to launch, so they won't be wasting a second.

Looking at the facts, we know that EE have this event planned in which all the tech media have been invited and we know they want to talk 4G, this is the subject of the invite cards. We know we're awaiting the brand name so it would be absurd for them not to announce it then.

Also we know 4G is coming before the end of this year and I think the first date Ofcom said they could broadcast 4G@1800Mhz is in fact the date of the event, so I think they will take the opportunity to make sure the venue has coverage and devices to test and all the technical stuff so that the journalists can write about it not just next week, but also be on board and familiar with it for launch in a few months.

This is about EE making a brand and a name out of 4G. A lot later 3 will launch it and there will be similar buzz and then when the likes of O2 / VF launch they'll be very much last to the market and the technicalities of the different frequencies will be lost by the general public.

The best thing about it is that those who are up in arms about EE being allowed to do this (O2) actually opened up this whole scenario for EE with their legal challenges! Originally the auctions were meant to be in 2009!, then the 1st half of 2012, and now 2013 all because of legal delays predominantly caused by O2. We always had to wait for the DSO, but it's the legal threats that actually enabled this to happen, they brought the whole thing upon themselves and EE were very clever to see an interim opportunity.

The O2/Voda 'cornerstone' sharing isn't all that. Where I live, O2 already have a good signal from a prominent landmark with good coverage (EE/Three use the same area), but Voda want to put up several smaller masts in residential areas and next to a school.

Which, despite their numerous applications, gets rejected by the local council time and time again (several years now). They refuse to share with O2 though. Hence no Voda signal here.

Now I'm only person with company mobile not on Voda. Their loss. *shrug*

Yeah this is for capacity, it's no longer about chuck a big mast on top of a hill and put it on full power. That was fine in the 2G days and when people were on Everyday 50 with 50 minutes of talktime and WAP was around.

These days to deliver a high capacity data network you need much more localised low powered cells, each with a decent backhaul so that you have 3 or more cells supporting an area which once had 1 cell on top of a big hill, that equals 3 or more times the capacity for data and is usually not much more cost as they are smaller and low powered. That's what 3, T-mo and Vodafone in your case are trying to do, that's the modern approach to a very high data capacity network.

I'd guess it is because my signal wasn't very good, as I said.

However I was using it yesterday on a train (about 10 miles from my house, which is where the traceroute was taken) and the latency was still 80-90ms so I don't know. It doesn't really bother me.

Haha, just had an amusing 20 minutes reading the Wavejock vs the rest episode.
Remember, everyone is entitled to their opinion even if it's blatantly obvious they're wrong.
To be fair to Wave, Glasgow has excellent O2 3G so it's easy to see how you wouldn't be aware of just how shockingly bad it is elsewhere. Most big cities and towns are covered but massive swathes of rural UK has absolutly no coverage at all. I'm in Devon (Could you guess? and although I will concede that in the last year things have improved, still most of the landscape has no 3G. I can be in a country lane in the middle of nowhere and I nearly always have EE 3G. Also Orange have made sure a lot of rural cells have EDGE and this provides an acceptable fallback.
I'm not sure I could run my business as effectively if I was on O2 which in the same locations would be mostly GPRS.
Also their coverage rollout seems very erratic. Was driving through Kingsbridge about a year ago and suddenly noticed a "telegraph pole" which wasn't! It was an O2 3G cell providing a tiny spot of coverage in an otherwise 3G free area. Go their coverage map and search for Kingsbridge.
Also compare O2 and Orange/T-Mobile/Three in Devon and decide which one you would be on if you were here.
I really hope ofcom come down hard on them.

What just like BT rolling out fibre to the big cities whilst ignoring vast swathes of the UK which are still on ADSL or worse. Me thinks double standards here. As for the mobile operators claiming the consumer will be short changed by this ruling - again yea just like large parts of the UK are being short changed on the BB front. Who is giving a rats a - - e about that though. Total hypocrisy.

I'm in a very rural area and I have BT fibre. 71Mbit down, 15Mbit up. Very nice.

But that's because my local council actually tried to make it happen (plus a bit of EU funding - BT is providing more than half of the total funding though).

At least they've got ADSL everywhere. The LLU companies and Virgin are notable for their cherry picking. It's easy to say "well why doesn't BT give everyone fibre" - could it be because it's a new technology (to BT) and it's not the cheapest thing to do? Give it a few years and wait and see what happens.

If Everything Everywhere or 3 can meet and exceed their 3G coverage requirements there is no excuse for O2's piss poor rollout.

Yes but when you consider by 2018 the predominant use of the internet is going to be from mobile devices, then you realise that 4G will take a lot of us away from those fixed cables and more people with get 4G internet connections as a home BB replacement, or there will be a much bigger swing toward mobile devices like ipads with 4G.

There's also going to be a massive benefit to business to wide coverage high speed data too, that's why it's such a shame O2 keep trying to derail and delay the process.

When you can get 20Mbps down and 5 up on a mobile 4G connection then you've got everything you need, particularly for rural areas where cabling properties is extremely expensive, just cable 1 or 2 cells and you have the whole area covered by high speed 4G.

Well speaking for myself I'd be more than happy just to get ADSL2+ As for the majority of Internet use being on mobile devices, not sure my little Nokia candy bar is quite up to it

Seriously though, I doubt I'll ever have an interest or need for Internet outside of my own four walls, it simply doesn't fire me at all. I can't see 4G in the home as a replacement for BB for some time to come either as the mobile operators aren't the best at offering cost effective solutions.

A one month truce over legal action against Ofcom's decision to let EE use 4G LTE on 1800Mhz has been agreed after government intervention. This will allow EE to do a small scale launch.

This may explain the staggered coverage EE have proposed and may be part of the deal to keep the other networks happy?!

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php...g-auction.html

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5...e-service.html

will be interesting to see what happens once the month is up and EE start to roll out 4G and I agree I reckon the staged 'slow' rollout is probably to appease O2, Vodafone etc.

Makes me think how fast could they roll it out without any hinderance or legal threats.