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Doc Martin (Part 14 Spoilers)


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Old 12-09-2012, 00:14
DCcurlygirl
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Well, it looks like our boy lost out to Sherlock's Benedict Cumberbatch for Best Actor in the TV Choice Awards. http://www.digitalspy.com/british-tv...s-in-full.html

That's ok -- it doesn't seem to be one of the most prestigious of acting honors.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:10
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Well, it looks like our boy lost out to Sherlock's Benedict Cumberbatch for Best Actor in the TV Choice Awards. http://www.digitalspy.com/british-tv...s-in-full.html

That's ok -- it doesn't seem to be one of the most prestigious of acting honors.

Strange that this article indicates that MC won.

http://www.iftn.ie/news/?act1=record...chnews&force=1
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:28
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Heads should roll at IFTN for giving out erroneous info!
Sad but true ... Cumberbatch won 2 awards (best actor and drama series). Better luck next time, MC!
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:51
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I don't buy that Jamie is just a confused teenager. Despite the murder occuring in the heat of the moment, he exhibits many signs of being an organized and thoughful offender: the clean-up, the alibi. Taking the phone could be considered taking a trophy. Had he not had parents who "snooped," he might never have come clean. He has thought about himself (what his nature is, etc), so I do not think this is the first time he has done something that he knows is not right. The violent pornography, his dismissal of Sean (as a lesser being) and his homicidal rage are huge red flags. He has all the makings of a sexually violent predator. He's smart, which makes him even more frightening.

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Old 12-09-2012, 02:13
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I don't buy that Jamie is just a confused teenager. Despite the murder occuring in the heat of the moment, he exhibits many signs of being an organized and thoughful offender: the clean-up, the alibi. Taking the phone could be considered taking a trophy. Had he not had parents who "snooped," he might never have come clean. He has thought about himself (what his nature is, etc), so I do not think this is the first time he has done something that he knows is not right. The violent pornography, his dismissal of Sean (as a lesser being) and his homicidal rage are huge red flags. He has all the makings of a sexually violent predator. He's smart, which makes him even more frightening.

radfen in CA, a Crime Analyst by trade
First, welcome, Radfen.

Second -- cynic that I am, even the sad little speech to his mother at the end is well within the capability of a sociopath.

Adolescents have notoriously poor impulse control, but killing a girl who resists you, combined with a taste for violent porn, is more than just a good kid going briefly off the rails. IMO, at least.

We'll never know, because we really weren't given enough information, and there is no requirement that a TV drama present a coherent diagnostic picture. But believe me, there are very badly damaged adolescents out there, acting out in all kinds of ways.

I do feel some sympathy for Rosie. -- I doubt very much that she and Ben can reconcile, and she has really lost the son she thought she knew, and all the hopes and dreams she had for him. i've lost track of the exact sequence of events, but I believe she had ample evidence that her son was involved and chose to cling to her illusions rather than to accept the support of her husband in facing up to it, when it was offered to her.

while it's asking a lot for a mother to turn her son into the police,her husband is a lawyer (apparently?) and together they could have found a solicitor to help with the process.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:41
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I don't buy that Jamie is just a confused teenager. Despite the murder occuring in the heat of the moment, he exhibits many signs of being an organized and thoughful offender: the clean-up, the alibi. Taking the phone could be considered taking a trophy. Had he not had parents who "snooped," he might never have come clean. He has thought about himself (what his nature is, etc), so I do not think this is the first time he has done something that he knows is not right. The violent pornography, his dismissal of Sean (as a lesser being) and his homicidal rage are huge red flags. He has all the makings of a sexually violent predator. He's smart, which makes him even more frightening.

radfen in CA, a Crime Analyst by trade
First, welcome, Radfen.

Second -- cynic that I am, even the sad little speech to his mother at the end is well within the capability of a sociopath.

Adolescents have notoriously poor impulse control, but killing a girl who resists you, combined with a taste for violent porn, is more than just a good kid going briefly off the rails. IMO, at least.

We'll never know, because we really weren't given enough information, and there is no requirement that a TV drama present a coherent diagnostic picture. But believe me, there are very badly damaged adolescents out there, acting out in all kinds of ways.
Agreed - and I don't believe that you can blame drugs or adolescent immaturity. I would marginally accept unusual behavior on something stronger than marijuana - LSD for example. However, teens have used and experimented with drugs for many decades and rarely do they commit murder even combined with rejected sexual advances.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:54
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Thks for posting Connie. I suppose we should have suspected the title as the dead giveaway. I too think Jamie was bad and manipulating and knew how to play to his mother's weakness. Don't blame Ben for getting as far away as possible for his own kids safety, e.g. Jamie spying on his daughter, then running off to his Father to get more sympathy. I wouldn't put a large bet on that they are getting back together anytime soon, wonder if there will be a sequel...
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:06
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Heads should roll at IFTN for giving out erroneous info!
Sad but true ... Cumberbatch won 2 awards (best actor and drama series). Better luck next time, MC!
Frankly, as much as I am a HUGE MC fan, there is a positive side to this. Martin has said repeatedly he likes to be liked. But if he had won, perhaps BP would have viewed this as validation of the recent direction of the character and the show. Maybe the producers and writers now will think twice.
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Old 12-09-2012, 13:42
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I don't buy that Jamie is just a confused teenager. Despite the murder occuring in the heat of the moment, he exhibits many signs of being an organized and thoughful offender: the clean-up, the alibi. Taking the phone could be considered taking a trophy. Had he not had parents who "snooped," he might never have come clean. He has thought about himself (what his nature is, etc), so I do not think this is the first time he has done something that he knows is not right. The violent pornography, his dismissal of Sean (as a lesser being) and his homicidal rage are huge red flags. He has all the makings of a sexually violent predator. He's smart, which makes him even more frightening.

radfen in CA, a Crime Analyst by trade
Welcome to the forum radfen
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Old 12-09-2012, 13:43
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Frankly, as much as I am a HUGE MC fan, there is a positive side to this. Martin has said repeatedly he likes to be liked. But if he had won, perhaps BP would have viewed this as validation of the recent direction of the character and the show. Maybe the producers and writers now will think twice.
Good point stateside fan.
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Old 12-09-2012, 14:02
mmDerdekea
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Agreed - and I don't believe that you can blame drugs or adolescent immaturity. I would marginally accept unusual behavior on something stronger than marijuana - LSD for example. However, teens have used and experimented with drugs for many decades and rarely do they commit murder even combined with rejected sexual advances.
LOL! Guess I'm the only one who doesn't see poor Jamie as the Son of Satan. I'm just not sure innately evil kids allow themselves to be gently disarmed, driven to the police station and hold their mother's hand entering it.

Having heard enough stories of super problematic kids from a parent coming to me for health concerns, and later learning the kids went to juvenile jail or drug treatment and get themselves back to their "real" decent selves, I'm still going to cut Jamie a bit a slack.

He did a wicked thing, but I can't quite yet see he is, thus, in and out, an evil boy.
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Old 12-09-2012, 14:33
NewPark
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I didn't use the word evil. And I probably reserve that for Charles Manson and his ilk.

But, imo, this is not an otherwise "normal" adolescent whose poor impulse control failed him.

Is he redeemable? Maybe. Verdict has to be out for an adolescent. We don't know enough about the kid and history.

For his sake, we can hope that Ben helps Rosie find a decent solicitor/barrister and gets him through the system with limited further damage. I think Ben would do that --- although reconciliation is probably off the table.

On another note -- poor Reggie Perrin. I can't believe we don't know what happens next! It's like the old story of "The Lady and the Tiger" -- I personally think he would go back to Nicola.

But, it seems to me that Doc Martin was infinitely better written and plotted. RP got a little tedious toward the end, I think, and we have no idea how he got to be the way he is. And it was a bit strange to see how differently Reggie was presented between S1 and S2 -- and I found it a bit unsettling to watch a character who seemed so similar to the way MC presents himself sometimes in real life.
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Old 12-09-2012, 15:04
NewPark
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Well, it looks like our boy lost out to Sherlock's Benedict Cumberbatch for Best Actor in the TV Choice Awards. http://www.digitalspy.com/british-tv...s-in-full.html

That's ok -- it doesn't seem to be one of the most prestigious of acting honors.
Bummer. I don't even particularly like the way Cumberbatch portrays Sherlock. Pretty one-note, compared to our Doc! Did MC go to the awards ceremony? I wonder he doesn't get tired of being gracious about Dr. Who and Sherlock, etc.
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Old 12-09-2012, 16:07
NewPark
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In S1E2, DM and LG have a conversation at the school where she asks him why he's always competing, always has to have the last word -- so "male." It's a theme that's struck in a later episode where she asks him why their relations are always so "combative." They do seem, from their earliest interactions to be sparring. (Kind of remind me of old Spencer Tracy-Katherine Hepburn movies.) What's that about, do you think? I can almost understand DM -- I imagine coming from his hospital hierarchy he's used to having the last word and squelching dissent, but I don't quite get what drives Louisa here. Is she that way with others, or does his attitude just bring out the "spiky" side of her? I guess we have to suppose that assuming they wind up together, this aspect of their relationship will continue?
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Old 12-09-2012, 16:25
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In S1E2, DM and LG have a conversation at the school where she asks him why he's always competing, always has to have the last word -- so "male." It's a theme that's struck in a later episode where she asks him why their relations are always so "combative." They do seem, from their earliest interactions to be sparring. (Kind of remind me of old Spencer Tracy-Katherine Hepburn movies.) What's that about, do you think? I can almost understand DM -- I imagine coming from his hospital hierarchy he's used to having the last word and squelching dissent, but I don't quite get what drives Louisa here. Is she that way with others, or does his attitude just bring out the "spiky" side of her? I guess we have to suppose that assuming they wind up together, this aspect of their relationship will continue?
I think their "banter" is supposed to be cute, much like you see in Tracy/Hepburn and lots of other romantic comedies. Think "You've Got Mail."

And it works -- until it just becomes argumentative and one-upsmanship. I honestly don't think that is the intention of either Louisa or Martin. I think they are two people who haven't figured out how to say what they mean and feel. So sometimes they just talk -- when silence, if they can't find the right words, would be more appropriate .
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Old 12-09-2012, 17:08
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I think their "banter" is supposed to be cute, much like you see in Tracy/Hepburn and lots of other romantic comedies. Think "You've Got Mail."

And it works -- until it just becomes argumentative and one-upsmanship. I honestly don't think that is the intention of either Louisa or Martin. I think they are two people who haven't figured out how to say what they mean and feel. So sometimes they just talk -- when silence, if they can't find the right words, would be more appropriate .
Agree with both of you that this is an interesting part of their relationship. I wish the writers would have more of it in Season 6, but more in a Tracy/Hepburn it leads to something good way and less of a Lousa/Martin it leads to something bad way. It might stem from the fact that they are only children (at least we know Martin definitely was) and did not learn how to interact, i.e.,fight back, with siblings.
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Old 12-09-2012, 20:28
mmDerdekea
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In S1E2, DM and LG have a conversation at the school where she asks him why he's always competing, always has to have the last word -- so "male." It's a theme that's struck in a later episode where she asks him why their relations are always so "combative." They do seem, from their earliest interactions to be sparring. (Kind of remind me of old Spencer Tracy-Katherine Hepburn movies.) What's that about, do you think? I can almost understand DM -- I imagine coming from his hospital hierarchy he's used to having the last word and squelching dissent, but I don't quite get what drives Louisa here. Is she that way with others, or does his attitude just bring out the "spiky" side of her? I guess we have to suppose that assuming they wind up together, this aspect of their relationship will continue?
In the S1 exchange, after he said "Thank you", they both kind of acknowledged the exchange and moved on without holding grudges or getting bent out of shape. That's what allowed me, at least, to smile watching it.

That's not what we see later in S4, when their emotions are much more entangled in their own words and what they hear the other saying. I didn't smile when they did the combative discussion.
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Old 12-09-2012, 20:57
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In the S1 exchange, after he said "Thank you", they both kind of acknowledged the exchange and moved on without holding grudges or getting bent out of shape. That's what allowed me, at least, to smile watching it.

That's not what we see later in S4, when their emotions are much more entangled in their own words and what they hear the other saying. I didn't smile when they did the combative discussion.
EXACTLY. It wasn't banter -- it was anger and confusion and disappointment -- a whole host of emotions, none of which provoke a smile.
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Old 13-09-2012, 03:44
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Why do we love Martin and Louisa? Why do we chat and dream up new stories about them?

I think it is because of the human relationship and all the ups and downs. Without that, it might as well be a static cartoon pinned to the wall.

Those who know me know why I say this, today. Tomorrow I have to say goodbye to someone very dear. She loved Doc Martin and I do too.
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Old 13-09-2012, 05:03
mmDerdekea
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Why do we love Martin and Louisa? Why do we chat and dream up new stories about them?

I think it is because of the human relationship and all the ups and downs. Without that, it might as well be a static cartoon pinned to the wall.

Those who know me know why I say this, today. Tomorrow I have to say goodbye to someone very dear. She loved Doc Martin and I do too.
My sincere and heartfelt condolences on the loss you are experiencing, robspace54.
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Old 13-09-2012, 07:42
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Why do we love Martin and Louisa? Why do we chat and dream up new stories about them?

I think it is because of the human relationship and all the ups and downs. Without that, it might as well be a static cartoon pinned to the wall.

Those who know me know why I say this, today. Tomorrow I have to say goodbye to someone very dear. She loved Doc Martin and I do too.
My thoughts and prayers are with you today robspace X
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Old 13-09-2012, 11:03
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Why do we love Martin and Louisa? Why do we chat and dream up new stories about them?

I think it is because of the human relationship and all the ups and downs. Without that, it might as well be a static cartoon pinned to the wall.

Those who know me know why I say this, today. Tomorrow I have to say goodbye to someone very dear. She loved Doc Martin and I do too.
I'm so sorry.
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Old 13-09-2012, 11:04
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New poll up on www.docmartinonline.net - In Season 1, Episode 2, when Mrs Walker (the matchmaker) asks Doc Martin whether he's a breast or a leg man, what do you think goes through his mind?
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Old 13-09-2012, 13:00
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I rewatched "Born with a Shotgun," the third episode of Season 5. While there is a certain amount of tension between Martin and Louisa -- when he asks her to keep the baby quiet and she snaps at him -- overall, that is the kind of snappish conversation any parents of a young infant would have.

But in this episode, the two seem to have settled into a rhythm that is working for them. Louisa is feeling comfortable enough that she agrees to move to London. Martin is relaxed enough to agree to take care of JH (still unnamed) while Louisa goes out for the evening -- and wait for it -- even makes a little joke about having some medical training!

And then, of course, there is the closing scene with Louisa when she secretly sees Martin read aloud a medical journal to the baby and the baby gives his Dad all kinds of smiles and chortles. For that moment, Louisa knows she has made the right decision to move to London, to keep the family together.

And then of course, episodes 4 ,5, 6, 7, and 8 happen
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Old 13-09-2012, 13:17
NewPark
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Why do we love Martin and Louisa? Why do we chat and dream up new stories about them?

I think it is because of the human relationship and all the ups and downs. Without that, it might as well be a static cartoon pinned to the wall.

Those who know me know why I say this, today. Tomorrow I have to say goodbye to someone very dear. She loved Doc Martin and I do too.
May good memories of your shared Doc Martin bond and many other life experiences sustain and console you...
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